My four year old will not do as she's asked. It's driving me insane. Please help

[mamaUK]

She will not follow through on simple tasks like:

"It is now time to sit in your chair for dinner"

"Please tidy your books into the corner where they live"

"Don't drop that rubbish. Put it in the bin (trash)"

I don't keep asking her to do stuff all the time. Is it too much to ask for her to follow through on simple tasks? When i do ask her to do something i always make sure I follow through, like with the books I will actually take her hand and go and 'help' her with tidying them so she doesn't think she has got away with ignoring me. It just seems so rude and I am at my wits end.

[ssh]

Maybe you should change your expectations so you don't get annoyed so often. I'm not saying to change your requests or gently helping your DD if she doesn't follow through, just don't expect her to be able to follow through without help. Her behavior seems normal for some 4 year olds.

[Ruthla]

It sounds perfectly normal to me. She's only four!

Some kids that young really can't stop what they're doing so easily, and need more intense redirection. It's really hard to stop in the middle of a game to go to the dinner table, and a verbal cue may not be enough. Taking her by the hand and walking with her to the table may be needed.

She may need you to remind her how to put the books back in the corner properly. She may even need you to say "pick up this book and put it there. Now pick up that book. Now pick up that one." etc. A vague "tidy up the books" may be too hard for her to understand what's expected at this age.

You're doing all the right things. When she doesn't respond to the verbal cues, you're getting more involved and helping her learn what she needs to do. The only thing you need to change is your own expectations of her. Instead of getting annoyed with her for not minding you, EXPECT that she'll need extra help in following through. Be proud and happy those times she's able to do things without help!

[MammaV]

I'd also offer her physical assistance if she needs it. You might ask her to put her books away and tell her that you'll help her if she needs to ask you for help. You can also reinforce that she's done it before so you know she is able. That helps her to remember that she is able. By offering to help you give her the tools to get what she needs to complete the task cheerfully too. Sometimes the smallest tasks can be overwhelming to little ones. Does she like to beat the clock? Set a timer if that's motivating. I'd also remind her how good it feels when she has accomplished a task on her own and that she can be proud of herself for making a good choice. Racing is another good strategy. My kids love to race through a task while I count to 10. We finish with a big hug and high fives.
Working together is an important skill. We're a social species and it's often more enjoyable to do a task with a partner than by yourself. Perhaps she just needs the company. Be sure to tell her how thankful you are that she chooses to be helpful. My kids love being helpful and they feel good about it when I recognize their helpful behavior.

[EnviroBecca]

I also have this issue with my 4-year-old. I use a variety of different approaches, depending on how important the thing is, how quickly it needs to happen, and who is really affected by it not happening.

"It is now time to sit in your chair for dinner"
Say it once. Then sit down in your own chair and start eating and ignore the kid. If she complains that you're not serving her any food, look surprised and say, "Oh, you weren't in your chair, so I thought you weren't interested in eating."

"Please tidy your books into the corner where they live"
Wait at least 5 minutes (unless you're in some kind of desperate rush to get the whole house tidy). Then say, "I see books all over the floor!" and give the kid a meaningful look. This can be surprisingly effective.
Or make the books talk about how sad they are to be away from home, how they don't have legs and need help; offer to help them, and have them thank you but say they really wish a little girl would carry them.
Or wordlessly put the books into a box and take it away. If the kid protests, look surprised and say, "When you didn't tidy the books, I thought you didn't care about them."

"Don't drop that rubbish. Put it in the bin (trash)"
Deliberately dropping trash on the floor (when the kid has understood how to put trash in the can for 3 years!) really gets me, so I say something like, "Hey! You dropped the sticky wrapper on the carpet! That makes me angry! I KNOW you know the right thing to do!" Get on with your business as if you assume the child will now do the right thing. If she doesn't: "I guess I have to pick up this sticky wrapper. I don't like that at all!" Indulge in two minutes of visible grumpitude, then move on.
When the rubbish is something generated by the child (for example, the wrapper from his snack) rather than something he picked up in the street , I bring it up again next time he wants that thing: "Last time you had a granola bar, you dropped the wrapper on the floor and wouldn't pick it up. I felt angry about that. Now I don't want to let you eat a granola bar because I don't want to pick up the wrapper." Listen to child's assurances that he will do differently this time. Firmly review the agreed-upon behavior. If child does the correct thing this time, be sure to comment positively on it.

All of these things work SOMEtimes. None of them works all of the time.

[bendingbirch]

I have a least three posts or more about the four year old on my blog, maybe they will help you. Here is one I wrote recently:
http://theparentingpassageway.com/20...four-year-old/

I find most four year olds are at the height of the "wiggles", have microscopic attention spans, need many chances to get their energy out, really need less words and more of your gentle physical presence to help them do things together (rather than you asking them to do something).. They still really live in their imagination, so the more you can couch things in movement and some sort of an image, it seems to make things go more smoothly...
Being the parent of a four year old can be challenging due to all of these things! If you haven't read The Gesell Institute's "Your Four-Year-Old", that is one I would highly suggest.....

Hope some of that helps you, sounds like you are getting great input from other mothers on this thread!

[Mommaloves]

It may be normal for a 4 year old to not want to follow through with simple tasks but they certainly capable(so long as there are no extenuating circumstances). I don't think it is wrong to expect a four year old to pick up their toys or comply with some requests. My 2 1/2 year old picks up her toys when asked. She doesn't always want to, but she knows that if she doesn't and I put them away she won't be able to play with them for awhile. I'm not sure if your 4 yo would find it amusing but my dd loves it when I sing "Clean-up, clean-up, everybody, everywhere. Clean-up clean-up evrybody do your share" I also help her pick up but I make sure that I only put away a few items and leave plenty for her.

[mamaUK]

Originally Posted by bendingbirch

I have a least three posts or more about the four year old on my blog, maybe they will help you. Here is one I wrote recently:
http://theparentingpassageway.com/20...four-year-old/

I find most four year olds are at the height of the "wiggles", have microscopic attention spans, need many chances to get their energy out, really need less words and more of your gentle physical presence to help them do things together (rather than you asking them to do something).. They still really live in their imagination, so the more you can couch things in movement and some sort of an image, it seems to make things go more smoothly...
Being the parent of a four year old can be challenging due to all of these things! If you haven't read The Gesell Institute's "Your Four-Year-Old", that is one I would highly suggest.....

Hope some of that helps you, sounds like you are getting great input from other mothers on this thread!

Thank you so much for directing me to your post , it has really made me think, especially about the non-lecturing, I am guilty of this I am afraid
I really need to remember this, sometimes I find it so hard to remember all the little things that need to be done to make the whole day easier. Being calm myself, not lecturing, giving choices not just commands, not giving too many choices, giving plenty of praise etc etc How does any mum remember everything????????????????? B/c these things really do work! WE live a waldorf inspired home life and abou two days ago I could see our happy calm home life all spinning down the drain....we're TV free (and have been for over a year now) and i found myself thinking (but not acting on it) it would be so much easier to sit her infront of the TV for an hour.............


Also, could you tell me some more about the 'time-in' how does it work? For now my four year old has 'the naughty step' from Super Nanny which she only ends up on about every three days or so but I would prefer not to call it the naughty step... after she has sat on 'the naughty step' i say why she was sat there and I 'make' her say sorry and then we have a big hug.............................. goodness, it sounds awful when I write it down............. I do feel like she does need some sort of 'time out' for when she has been acting out so ideas would be great. She usually only ends up on her 'naughty step' for hitting her younger sister...............

[mamaUK]

Originally Posted by Mommaloves

It may be normal for a 4 year old to not want to follow through with simple tasks but they certainly capable.

I completely agree with this, I do think they are capable and it is what I expect but I just have to remember that they don't usually want to do it! Thanks for the little rhyme, I think I will try that this afternoon.
We have singing at bedtime but not for other jobs of trasistions during the day.

[mum21andtwins]

Originally Posted by mamaUK

I completely agree with this, I do think they are capable and it is what I expect but I just have to remember that they don't usually want to do it! Thanks for the little rhyme, I think I will try that this afternoon.
We have singing at bedtime but not for other jobs of trasistions during the day.

but why should she do as you tell her?
why does she need to sit down in order to have her food. my 3 rarrely sit to eat they normally stand around the table, this allows them to wiggle and jump as much as they want. they eat I gt to eat and most important everyone is happy eating. as they get older they will lose the wiggles and sit down whilst eating.
the books *I* want them tidied away not ds. but I might say something like squish the twins might trample your books if you leave them on the floor do you want to put them on the shelve? he normally does if not I'll put them away when I can, if they get trampled by the twins he has learned something.
with the dropping stuff on the floor I'll say oi that goes in the bin if he doesn't (which I have to say has not happend because he loves opening the bin) I'd pick it up and put it in.

Just because at 4 he understand what you say and would be able to follow trough doen't mean he wants to or has the patience to do it. just think of how hard it is to do something yourself that you don't want to do. and think of how it feels when you are told what to do. Its so easy to forget what its ike being little but try and go back to your childhood and see how you felt when your parents told you what to do. as a kid (to me at least) it felt like they where allways telling me what to do

well thats my two pence worth

[mamaUK]

Originally Posted by mum21andtwins

but why should she do as you tell her?
why does she need to sit down in order to have her food. my 3 rarrely sit to eat they normally stand around the table, this allows them to wiggle and jump as much as they want. they eat I gt to eat and most important everyone is happy eating. as they get older they will lose the wiggles and sit down whilst eating.
the books *I* want them tidied away not ds. but I might say something like squish the twins might trample your books if you leave them on the floor do you want to put them on the shelve? he normally does if not I'll put them away when I can, if they get trampled by the twins he has learned something.
with the dropping stuff on the floor I'll say oi that goes in the bin if he doesn't (which I have to say has not happend because he loves opening the bin) I'd pick it up and put it in.

Just because at 4 he understand what you say and would be able to follow trough doen't mean he wants to or has the patience to do it. just think of how hard it is to do something yourself that you don't want to do. and think of how it feels when you are told what to do. Its so easy to forget what its ike being little but try and go back to your childhood and see how you felt when your parents told you what to do. as a kid (to me at least) it felt like they where allways telling me what to do

well thats my two pence worth

It's great to hear such a different point of view but I did find it quite shocking



I guess I have grown up in an environment where it is polite to do what is asked of you and there usually is a good reason for it being asked....and I don't ask alot. I need her to tidy away her books which she leaves scattered around so her younger sister doesn't trip and fall on them. At four, I think she should be learning that HER toys left over the floor can cause accidents (I believe in natural consequences but not when it can cause accidents) and also isn't looking after her toys and teaching her to respect her things so they don't get trodden on and broken. I try and show her that her things are beautiful and not disposable and need to be looked after to try and counter-act this throw away culture there is at the moment. I guess it is part of Waldorf to treat people and things with love and care, she would never leave her natural doll left in a heap on the floor, she would be put to bed in its cot. She treats her as a 'real' little person. If I aways put away her things all of the time she would soon come to learn that I was her servant and would tidy away any mess that she makes..........how would she ever learn to tidy things away and respect her immediate surroundings? She might not *want* to tidy up her things but every member of the family need to take part in order to live in a pleasant environment. I don't always *want* to make dinner at night but every person has certain responsibilities and she will have more the older she gets. She will be starting school this september, if I always thought, 'oh it doesn't matter, she doesn't *want* to do it, I'll just do it' she would get a massive shock when she starts school. Will she demand that the teacher puts away her lunch box b/c she doesn't feel like doing it? I think she would get quite a shock and it wouldn't be in the home environment.

The reason she needs to sit down to have her breakfast/lunch/dinner is b/c I don't believe it is safe to be eating when you are not seated. If she took of at a run on some whim while she had some food in her mouth I wouldn't want her choking. We also have wonderful family meals every night with the whole family, I think it is inappropriate and rude to have kids jumping up and down and standing up to the table when a lot of effort has been put into a home cooked meal which has probably taken about an hour to prepare. Plus, it would give me indegestion to watch. My children have never eaten on the run, as I don't think it is good for digestion either. Once my LO is at the table she is more tha happy to be there, we have our blessing and lots of laughter and chat...she is testing me to see what control I have by saying she doesn't want to get up to her chair.

Thinking back to when I was little I was taught that you should respect one another, all join in as a family, doing the fun things and not so fun things, going out for great days out but also helping out by setting the table for example.

Thanks for your reply and views, although I could never imagine it in our home environment.

[mamazee]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

It sounds perfectly normal to me. She's only four!

Some kids that young really can't stop what they're doing so easily, and need more intense redirection. It's really hard to stop in the middle of a game to go to the dinner table, and a verbal cue may not be enough. Taking her by the hand and walking with her to the table may be needed.

She may need you to remind her how to put the books back in the corner properly. She may even need you to say "pick up this book and put it there. Now pick up that book. Now pick up that one." etc. A vague "tidy up the books" may be too hard for her to understand what's expected at this age.

You're doing all the right things. When she doesn't respond to the verbal cues, you're getting more involved and helping her learn what she needs to do. The only thing you need to change is your own expectations of her. Instead of getting annoyed with her for not minding you, EXPECT that she'll need extra help in following through. Be proud and happy those times she's able to do things without help!

Once again, Ruthla nails it!!!!

[mum21andtwins]

fwiw I'm from a waldorf background and still incorperate a lot of waldorf into our homelife.



<snip>I guess I have grown up in an environment where it is polite to do what is asked of you and there usually is a good reason for it being asked....and I don't ask alot. I need her to tidy away her books which she leaves scattered around so her younger sister doesn't trip and fall on them.
At four, I think she should be learning that HER toys left over the floor can cause accidents (I believe in natural consequences but not when it can cause accidents) and also isn't looking after her toys and teaching her to respect her things so they don't get trodden on and broken. <snip>

but they are her toys right? If you had a pile of magazines lying on the floor and your oh said "Please tidy your magazines into the corner where they live" what would you feel/think? I beleive its far more constructive to say dd those books there will get damaged/could hurt your sibling than just saying do this because I am your mother.



<snip>I try and show her that her things are beautiful and not disposable and need to be looked after to try and counter-act this throw away culture there is at the moment. I guess it is part of Waldorf to treat people and things with love and care, <snip>
I guess that depends on what waldorf school you go to.
I model to my kids to care for their toys their books and I model respectful bhavior I just don't see how punishment or naughty steps show this. to me it says I'm bigger and stronger so you do what I say




<snip>
she would never leave her natural doll left in a heap on the floor, she would be put to bed in its cot. She treats her as a 'real' little person. If I aways put away her things all of the time she would soon come to learn that I was her servant and would tidy away any mess that she makes..........how would she ever learn to tidy things away and respect her immediate surroundings? <snip>
Because you model the desired behavior. Punishments won't make her value tidiness and punishments won't ensure that the two of you have a good relationship. If that where true my Mum and I would be best friends


<snip>She might not *want* to tidy up her things but every member of the family need to take part in order to live in a pleasant environment. I don't always *want* to make dinner at night but every person has certain responsibilities and she will have more the older she gets.<snip>
Why do you have to cook? whats wrong with a takeout or getting your DH to cook? or just having marmite toast? And does she get a choice in the responsibilities she has or are they things you've told her are her responsibilities?

<snip>The reason she needs to sit down to have her breakfast/lunch/dinner is b/c I don't believe it is safe to be eating when you are not seated. If she took of at a run on some whim while she had some food in her mouth I wouldn't want her choking. We also have wonderful family meals every night with the whole family, I think it is inappropriate and rude to have kids jumping up and down and standing up to the table when a lot of effort has been put into a home cooked meal which has probably taken about an hour to prepare. Plus, it would give me indegestion to watch. My children have never eaten on the run, as I don't think it is good for digestion either. Once my LO is at the table she is more tha happy to be there, we have our blessing and lots of laughter and chat...she is testing me to see what control I have by saying she doesn't want to get up to her chair.<snip>

Well ime it doesn't seem to affect my ds's digestion we have great homecooked family meals three times a day even the bread is homebaked my me. we have blessings and the whole shebang but them standing up has eliminated what would be a battle they are welcome to it on their chairs and they are welcome to stand up. Choking has never been and issue here either. mayb by choosing not to engage in the battle she will choose to sit down. you might be pleasantly surprised by the choice she makes when she can make it

<snip>Thinking back to when I was little I was taught that you should respect one another, all join in as a family, doing the fun things and not so fun things, going out for great days out but also helping out by setting the table for example.<snip>
You know my ds (the twins are 20m/o so a little to little) helps out of his own back never asked. He feeds the animals in the morning helps me lay the table helps mucking out and will sit with his brothers is they feel unwell. I don't think you have to teach respect ime kids pick this up naturally their is such ephasis on Teaching when most of the time a child will pick it up on their own because thats what kids do.
sorry for the horrible spelling I'm tired and english is not my own language

[moondiapers]

Originally Posted by mamaUK

She will not follow through on simple tasks like:

"It is now time to sit in your chair for dinner"

"Please tidy your books into the corner where they live"

"Don't drop that rubbish. Put it in the bin (trash)"

I don't keep asking her to do stuff all the time. Is it too much to ask for her to follow through on simple tasks? When i do ask her to do something i always make sure I follow through, like with the books I will actually take her hand and go and 'help' her with tidying them so she doesn't think she has got away with ignoring me. It just seems so rude and I am at my wits end.

Your requests are perfectly reasonable for a 4yo. It's also developementally appropriate for her to TRY to get away with ignoring you. Just keep up what you're doing....by helping her to comply....and eventually she'll get it that you aren't going to let her ignore you.

[mamaUK]

Originally Posted by moondiapers

Your requests are perfectly reasonable for a 4yo. It's also developementally appropriate for her to TRY to get away with ignoring you. Just keep up what you're doing....by helping her to comply....and eventually she'll get it that you aren't going to let her ignore you.

Thank you for such a reassuring reply, the past two days have been much better, I have been reading 'Kid Co-operation How to stop yelling,nagging and pleading and get kids to cooperate' and it has got some really great points in it like saying : ' you may_____________, after you have______________'
which is working really well. Also giving a choice: 'do you want to get in the chair or shall mummy help you get in the chair?' I am giving clear short instructions: 'Please put that book away'....I'm not lecturing anymore! and also I have been letting her know when it is time to leave the library for example...'5 minutes, 2 minutes, right it's time to go' and thats really helping her transistion between things. So all in all, the past 48 hours have been pleasant, calm and enjoyable in our house!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the support!