racism and sexism in Disney/ kids movies - Page 4

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Smokering

It's been a long time since I saw Sleeping Beauty, but I believe you're right about that one.

Yes...but there's still more to it than that. A lot of people complain about the whole "a woman's happiness is all about finding the right man" theme in these movies. They overlook that the prince in Snow White was looking for her at the end - his happiness was wound up in finding the woman he loved, too. (I'll overlook the insipid romantic ick of falling in love over the course of a single song.)

And, Sleeping Beauty...Prince Philip was prepared to give up his kingdom for the "peasant girl" he met in the woods. (Once again - insipid romantic ick of falling in love over the course of a single song.) She'd been living in the woods with nobody but three "aunts" and the animals for company her whole life. He had a loving father (oddly, his mother is the one whose completely absent, as far as I can tell), wealth, friends and a kingdom to inherit, and was prepared to throw it all away for the right woman. I'm just not getting the "women have no options but a man" theme from this one. Mind you, I do find the whole movie visually stunning, but...weak...not much plot, and paper thin characters. I just don't pick up the same thing about getting married as everyone else.

[Smokering]

I also think historical movies are fine. But, once you make a little catchy, enjoyable song about killing Indians ... (to me at least) it seems to cross the line. There must be a better way to portray historical movies without having the "bad guys" sing songs like that. It's like making a catchy song about WWII, and rounding up people into concentration camps. Songs like that almost make light of what happened. The beat is fun, positive, catchy ... and the subject matter - yikes! Some things just don't go well with cute, Disney songs.

Hmm.... yeah, I see your point... maybe I just didn't find that song catchy. I haven't watched the film more than a few times, but I know the words to "Just Around the River Bend" and "Colours of the Wind" and even "If I Never Knew You", whereas I couldn't sing that song if you paid me. I'd be very surprised if a kid found it interesting/memorable enough to sing. Now, "Be Prepared", on the other hand, I've belted out many a time from the shower!

The histirical inaccuracy's a fair point, and put me off the movie for years. Then when I finally did grudgingly admit the artwork was gorgeous, I saw the sequel in which they made some vague attempt to be historically "accurate", and had Pocahontas marry the other guy. Then that really made me mad, because it totally ruined the "I'll always be with you" schtick of the first film, which seemed pretty cynical for a Disney film. I mean, if you're going to abandon accuracy for a love story, at least keep the beauty and purity of the love story intact, you know? Plus, Disney sequels always appal me for the decline in the quality of the artwork. TLM2 shows Ariel jerking around the sea as if her tail's on a hinge; Aladdin 2's Jasmine can't walk properly, and Pocahontas in the second film just looked ugly. It's a shame... anyway, digression.

Yes, Jasmine was ridiculously skinny. And had eyes the size of saucers. I always liked Cinderella - very graceful but far more realistic, and with good sturdy ankles.

[Liquesce]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I wouldn't call it the product of anything, because I've never noticed it at all. Jafar has one of the classic "villain faces" (thin face, hooked nose, piercing eyes), but I never thought of him as looking any more Arabic than the other characters. I don't really think of anyone else in that movie as being a bad guy.

Uh, rewatch. Pretty much all of the undesirables in the film have the heavy brows and hooked noses and so on and so forth of "classic villains" and equally classic boars, all of which draws heavily on Semitic stereotypes. That it appeared in a film actually referencing a Semitic people just makes it all the more apparent.

May I suggest Reel Bad Arabs.

[mags]

DH and I are both Asian American and we have noticed the Disney seemed to have a particular hatred towards the Chinese. There have been so many Disney movies (cartoons and live action) that are blatantly racist toward Asians, Native Americans, African Americans, ppl of Mideastern descent, etc.. My DH and I just cringe now when we watch anything Disney, b/c there is ALWAYS something bound to cross the line and get on our nerves. It is all over our kids' heads right now and they are still too young to have discussions about it, but UGH, I hate that this is another part of, "childhood" that is part of mainstream society that is disturbing on so many levels. Ppl think Disney is so harmless, that's how ingrained racism is, that ppl will just glean over it as being innocent.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Liquesce

Uh, rewatch. Pretty much all of the undesirables in the film have the heavy brows and hooked noses and so on and so forth of "classic villains" and equally classic boars, all of which draws heavily on Semitic stereotypes. That it appeared in a film actually referencing a Semitic people just makes it all the more apparent.

I've probably seen Aladdin at least 3-4 dozen times. The only real bad guy is Jafar, so I'm not sure what undesirables you mean. I can't think of a single character, good, bad or otherwise, in that movie who doesn't look Arabic. I suppose it's possible that Jafar looks more like some kind of stereotype, but that doesn't mean he looks more anything, in real life terms. As far as people of actual Arabic/Middle Eastern background that I've ever met are concerned, both Jasmine and Aladdin bring them to mind far more strongly than Jafar does.

[Liquesce]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I've probably seen Aladdin at least 3-4 dozen times. The only real bad guy is Jafar, so I'm not sure what undesirables you mean. I can't think of a single character, good, bad or otherwise, in that movie who doesn't look Arabic. I suppose it's possible that Jafar looks more like some kind of stereotype, but that doesn't mean he looks more anything, in real life terms. As far as people of actual Arabic/Middle Eastern background that I've ever met are concerned, both Jasmine and Aladdin bring them to mind far more strongly than Jafar does.

The thieves, beggars, ruthless traders, the guy who wants to cut off Jasmine's hand for stealing, the palace guards ... pretty much the vast majority of the male characters who aren't Aladdin, come to think of it. It weirds me out more than a little that you would paint characters like this, for example, as looking legitimately Arab to you. Coupled with all the belly dancer garb, scimitars, charming little ditties about Arabian lands being barbaric and violent pretty much by nature, it's very much a standard Orientalist cliche with deep, deep precedent. And while sure, Aladdin and Jasmine bring to mind people -- of any descent -- more than the rather gross caricatures do, that's often the nature of caricature. Aladdin and Jasmine both also bring to mind real Jewish people better than, for example, this guy, but were they paired together it wouldn't make the caricature less demeaning.

No, the caricatures in Aladdin do not depart much from the Disney -- or other earlier-Disney-era -- standards. But the history those particular standards reflect isn't innocuous or coincidental. The dark, hook-nosed, often money-grubbing and blatantly heartless villain imagery comes from somewhere.

[phoenix78]

Does anyone have any of the Disney Book Collections? We have a Chritmas Collection with a Beauty and the Beast Story that is terribly disturbing. It's more of the same story (set during the time Belle is a prisoner in the castle until their first Christmas together, where she shows him true love and forgives him for having thrown her in a dungeon for 'disobeying him.") As if the story (called the Enchanted Christmas) isn't bad enough, the illustrations are the most disturbing part. There is one that shows Belle, standing in the dungeon, head hung down in Shame, while the Beast is raising a fist in "thunderous anger". There is also the wood axe in the dungeon, standing right next to the Beast. IF this doesn't say something about violence against women to girls and boys, I don't know what does.

For all the people who think Disney is harmless, please really, really think about the cultural messages that are transmitted through Disney. I teach a psychology class and read the above story to my students while showing the pics enlarged on the screen above me, following the same discussions over whether Disney is harmless or really racist/sexist/homophobic...they get it by the end of the lesson, usually without me saying anything more than reading the story. I let them find the issues in it.

Preschoolers in particular are learning all about race and gender identity and giving them such offensive images as "harmless cartoons" at such a young age really can ingrain stereotypes.

That said, the Disney princesses have still occassionally made their way into our home as gifts from others. As well as some Disney pics, but whenever dd watches or plays with Disney, I try to be right there for a critical discussion with her. And when it's time for our annual collection of toys for the good-will, I have no qualms putting Barbie or the princesses in the box first.