intentionally NOT saving for your child's college? - Page 9

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by AndrewsMother

Because as a black person in the 1930's, 40's and 50's the only way to move above and beyond menial work was to have a higher level of education.

His case is much different from the average case of today, wouldn't you agree?

A college education provides options and opens doors that are shut without them. I can't imagine doing anything in life, that would fullfil me personally, that does not require a graduate degree. "I" would be miserable without that option. Others might not. Why not get the degree and realize that it is needed instead of never getting it and needing one.

I do not agree that it opens more doors for everyone in every case. It really all is so relative to who and where you are, what you want to accomplish in life, etc.

Does your college degree make being a wife and mother more fulfilling to you? No snark, honest question.

Why waste time getting a degree you don't want and will never use instead of following what you know to be true for you?

[Oriole]

Originally Posted by magstphil

To add though I am so happy to see these parents on all sides who obviously love and care about their kids. My DH and I were raised in less than stellar homes. We didn't get anything paid for for us and that sometimes even meant food, clothes, shelter, etc. It's just so nice to know so many parents DO care!

I think that's very true for this thread. For all the disagreement, everyone clearly has their kids' best interest at heart.

[holyhelianthus]

Whoops! I forgot to ask if you believe that your son will also not be fulfilled without his degree because you feel that way about yourself? Do you really believe he could not be happy any other way?

[Oriole]

Originally Posted by magstphil

Does your college degree make being a wife and mother more fulfilling to you? No snark, honest question.

You know, I thought about that, because out of many jobs that I know I would love doing, mothering is high up there on the list. However, as another mom posted here, where life put her in a position all of a sudden without a husband or degree, she is in a less advantageous position now, than she would have been if she had a degree. So I think aside from providing a profession, it can also work as a security system, even if you do intend to be a stay at home mom.

I hope that five years from now I'll be sahm. It won't mean that my degree is useless. It is serving me right not to build our nest, and will serve as insurance in case something happens to DP.

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by Oriole

You know, I thought about that, because out of many jobs that I know I would love doing, mothering is high up there on the list. However, as another mom posted here, where life put her in a position all of a sudden without a husband or degree, she is in a less advantageous position now, than she would have been if she had a degree. So I think aside from providing a profession, it can also work as a security system, even if you do intend to be a stay at home mom.

I hope that five years from now I'll be sahm. It won't mean that my degree is useless. It is serving me right not to build our nest, and will serve as insurance in case something happens to DP.

I can understand that but it wasn't my question. What she said didn't have to do with stability but with fulfillment in life.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Peppermint

FWIW- I do have a brother who HATED schooling, until he went to college, so- I do know a bit about what it is like to have someone so negatively affected by schooling, I think it complicates this discussion.

I'm sure it does. I don't mean for it to do that - I just really, really hated school.

If one of my children felt as strongly as you do against furthering education (or even just didn't want to), I'd help them realize dreams, like, perhaps a trade school or starting a business, but- things like houses, cars and travel are things everyone will want,

That just makes me laugh, because I know quite a few people who don't want the hassle of home ownership, and I never wanted a car, and you couldn't pay me to travel (although I may do a bit of it, just to keep dh company, as he'd like to do it). I guess I know what you mean, but it's very far from my reality, yk?

[KatWrangler]

Originally Posted by Oriole

You know, I thought about that, because out of many jobs that I know I would love doing, mothering is high up there on the list. However, as another mom posted here, where life put her in a position all of a sudden without a husband or degree, she is in a less advantageous position now, than she would have been if she had a degree. So I think aside from providing a profession, it can also work as a security system, even if you do intend to be a stay at home mom.

I hope that five years from now I'll be sahm. It won't mean that my degree is useless. It is serving me right not to build our nest, and will serve as insurance in case something happens to DP.

Originally Posted by magstphil

I can understand that but it wasn't my question. What she said didn't have to do with stability but with fulfillment in life.

If you are talking about my last post, it was about if my husband should die or leave us. I wouldn't be able to support my kids because I don't have a degree. I will have to go find the quote...

eta - this is what I said in post 112.

I want to make sure my kids are able to fully support themselves without relying on a spouse/partner. If they should find themselves in a crappy relationship or if that breadwinner spouse/partner dies I want my child to be able to take care of themselves.

I do not have a college education (I have some college credits but they are so old they probably don't matter). If my husband should pass away or leave me, I have no way to support my three kids. All the money I would make would barely cover their daycare costs (assuming I make what I made when I last worked 3 1/2 years ago). I don't want my children to be put in a position like this with their own adult lives.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by KatWrangler

If you are talking about my last post, it was about if my husband should die or leave us. I wouldn't be able to support my kids because I don't have a degree. I will have to go find the quote...

What if your degree were 15-20 years old, and your most recent job experience were 10-12 years ago? Do you really think that having the degree would enable you to support your whole family? I just can't see it making that much difference, after being out of the workforce for a significant amount of time.

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by KatWrangler

If you are talking about my last post, it was about if my husband should die or leave us. I wouldn't be able to support my kids because I don't have a degree. I will have to go find the quote...

eta - this is what I said in post 112.

No not your post, AndrewsMother

She said....

I can't imagine doing anything in life, that would fullfil me personally, that does not require a graduate degree.

[jeminijad]

Originally Posted by Poddi

It's best to not assume your kids will do certain things you as you hoped.

Now this is the most sensible thing I've read on this thread yet.

I do hope no one who believe a degree is necessary for a fulfilled life pressures their talented-at-fine-woodworking son into years of academic drudgery that are meaningless for him; I also hope those who feel that college is brainwashing or just not needed do not discourage their blossoming young debators from enrolling in law school.

It has nothing to do with saving for college, but this thread has at least helped me consider how much of what I want for my DD is a projection of what I would have wanted, and how much takes her personality into consideration.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by AndrewsMother

A college education provides options and opens doors that are shut without them.

Someone upthread said she has to hide her degree on her resume. They don't always open doors.

I can't imagine doing anything in life, that would fullfil me personally, that does not require a graduate degree. "I" would be miserable without that option. Others might not.

Yeah - maybe your son. I guess I just don't understand why anybody would want to deliberately program/condition their child to take a certain life path, yk?

Why not get the degree and realize that it is needed instead of never getting it and needing one.

umm....because that's a lot of time and money (somebody's!) to waste on something you don't want to do in the first place. It would kill me to have had my mom pay for a degree for me, and watch her financial trouble be even worse than it is, when I never wanted to go, anyway. Likewise, there are a lot of people struggling with student loan debt for degrees they wanted. How much worse would that load be, if you were only there in the first place, because someone else thought it would open doors?

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by jeminijad

Now this is the most sensible thing I've read on this thread yet.

I do hope no one who believe a degree is necessary for a fulfilled life pressures their talented-at-fine-woodworking son into years of academic drudgery that are meaningless for him; I also hope those who feel that college is brainwashing or just not needed do not discourage their blossoming young debators from enrolling in law school.

Well, I won't. There's a pretty good chance that ds1 will go on to university (although he's still undecided about what he'd study...probably something science related...maybe). OTOH, he's also talked about apprenticing in a trade (he pulled high 90s in electronics last year). He may go to an art institute, and he may just say "screw it" and try to succeed in acting. It's hard to say. Last time he had a concrete plan of any kind, it involved postponing post-secondary for a year, while he works as live-in staff at the local Outdoor School. I'm cool with all of it. I've been curious as to where ds1's many gifts and interests would lead him since he was about 3 or 4...and it's been quite an adventure watching him grow. I'm still somewhat taken aback that my artist has blossomed into the science brain of his year...

[AndrewsMother]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

umm....because that's a lot of time and money (somebody's!) to waste on something you don't want to do in the first place. It would kill me to have had my mom pay for a degree for me, and watch her financial trouble be even worse than it is, when I never wanted to go, anyway. Likewise, there are a lot of people struggling with student loan debt for degrees they wanted. How much worse would that load be, if you were only there in the first place, because someone else thought it would open doors?

I don't believe that money spent on education is ever wasted.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by AndrewsMother

I don't believe that money spent on education is ever wasted.

It's wasted if the person doesn't get anything out of it. It's wasted, when people pay for their children's tuition, and the children flunk out, due to excessive partying.

You have whatever priorities you have, and obviously those are going to guide your approach. I'm just pointing out that there are reasons why people don't go to college, and it's not all about opening doors and broadening perspectives for many, many people. Some see it as an excuse to party. Some (many, ime) see it solely as a way to make a ton of money. If someone goes to college in pursuit of any one goal (be it money or to follow a guy/girl or something else), and doesn't manage to accomplish that goal, then their time and money have been pretty much wasted, unless they got something else out of it. Sure - lots of people didn't ever get degrees, and wish they had. There are also people who got degrees, and wish they hadn't.

If people want to go, that's great. I don't see it as anything but a waste, if people are only there because someone else thinks that's the best thing for them.

[MomInFlux]

This is a stupendously interesting thread, in so many ways.

We're not saving for college for our kids right now, for a variety of reasons.

First has to do with the state of the world. I'm not convinced the dollar will survive, nor that higher education will.

Second, we're preparing to move aboard a sailboat this summer, and will be cruising full-time starting next summer. I fully expect that the kids will come out of the experience with skills, experience, and knowledge that they couldn't get in high school or college.

Third, DH and I have no expectation that college is right for our kids. (Full disclosure: I have a Master's degree, and DH has 2 Master's degrees. We're not anti-higher education.) But if one or all of the kids wants to make a living as a farrier or a welder or a farmer or an artist, we'll support that goal, whether the route to get there is apprenticing or a trade school.

I WILL, however, strongly recommend to the kids (male AND female) that they develop a skill set that will let them make a living on their own, so they never feel trapped in a bad relationship because they can't support themselves.

[SunshineJ]

Originally Posted by triscuitsmom

For real? What if he had met someone he wanted to spend his life with and she was going to be working making enough for them to live on and he was going to be the stay at home parent? What if that was the thing that would make him happiest in life?

I would tell my son the same thing I would tell my daughter in that situation - get some kind of training or education in something, even if it was a part time effort. I have no problem with my children choosing to stay at home and raise happy families if that is what makes them happy, but DH and I firmly believe that they have to have some skills of some kind to fall back on. How many breadwinners have lost their jobs in the past 2 yrs? How many spouses have had to go to work? How often does the sahp want to bring in a little extra money? I know when I was a sahm my degree allowed me to do contract work from home for a very decent wage (and when I re-entered the work force after 5 yrs off I landed a good job because I was seen as having stayed current, even though the work I did was pretty minor). Also, depending on the career of the spouse and it's social obligations it's possible my child may feel ill equipped to attend certain functions without some type of degree or training (note I am NOT saying my child *would* be ill equipped, but that it may lead to an insecurity around well educated professionals in a social setting. I saw this over and over when I was with my ex, it was unwarranted but it was definitely there). Now, if our children choose a different path than traditional education we're absolutely fine with that as well - just as long as they have something they can use if needed. This is the right way for *our* family, though it may not be for everyone else, and because of this we will do our best to finance as much of it as we can.

[rootzdawta]

Originally Posted by AndrewsMother

Because as a black person in the 1930's, 40's and 50's the only way to move above and beyond menial work was to have a higher level of education.

Call it snobbery or whatever you would like, but I still believe that this is true.
A college education provides options and opens doors that are shut without them. I can't imagine doing anything in life, that would fullfil me personally, that does not require a graduate degree. "I" would be miserable without that option. Others might not. Why not get the degree and realize that it is needed instead of never getting it and needing one.

AM, I get this sentiment but I disagree in a way. I know that there are challenges that my children will face because they are Black however I don't want them to ever feel that because they are Black, they must do certain things even if they don't want to because it's the only way they can make something of themselves in a racist world. I think that's too limiting. Especially since even with the degrees, they will still face all kinds of opposition simply because of their race. Why not pursue what they are truly passionate about (and if it's higher education, so be it)? That way, when they do come upon racism, it mitigates the pain and frustration.

I totally get the importance of education for Black people. As I've said before, education is what took my father out of an extremely poor village in Nigeria and got him to the U.S. But at his age now, his degrees are not really applicable to what he's doing now and he's doing what he's passionate about. For him, the degrees served as a means to an end. So I understand what you're saying.

What I'm happy about is that nowadays, things have changed significantly at least in this country. It's not the same as it was 50 years ago although we still face lots of challenges. I have to say, even though I'm a skeptic, things have changed because 50 years ago, there's no way in hell a person of color would be president. It's not all a bed of roses now but . . . it's different--Better. Especially for us living in the U.S. Were I living in a different country, I don't think I'd have the same attitude). Better. Higher education, while worthwhile, IMHO, doesn't have to be the only way out (neither does hip-hop or basketball for that matter) especially for smart, gifted, talented, energetic, enterprising, outgoing folks willing to work hard and network, network, network, hustle, hustle, hustle (legally, of course). But it certainly can be. I'm down to support any way that gives my babies the fulfillment and joy they want. But, to be sure, there must always be a well-thought out, bulletproof plan. And then a back-up. Because honestly, no child of mine is going to tell me he's not going to college and not give me a realistic, productive alternative and think I'm going to be a-ok with that.

[jeca]

Is it expected for my kids to go to college, no. It will be very encouraged though. As a mother of three minority children it will give them an advantage to have a higher eduction. I think it is even more important for them to have a degree just to be on the same playing field competing for the same things as their non-minority counterparts.
I wouldn't even think of depending solely on scholarships. I received a partial academic scholarship to a historically black school my first year. It paid $3500 of the $5000 per semester tuition. That left the balance plus room and board. My father paid for my schooling until I left after the first year. I regret not finishing and have attending school off and on on my own over the years but have yet to finish my degree. My sister starts at Grambling this fall as a junior. My parents will be paying for her schooling also.
My family grew up in alabama where the line between whites and blacks was very pronounced. My father has a degree. My mother has a trade school degree. My grandmother and most of her siblings attended college or some type of higher education. My grandmother is a retired RN, her twin sister a retired school teacher, their brother a college professor just to name a few. They live much better lives then their friends they went to school with back in the day.
I don't think the having an education gets you a better life but it can certainly improve your quality of life if that's important to you and for me and my family it is. I want them to have every advantage since they were born disadvantages in the eyes of this world.

[jeca]

Originally Posted by rootzdawta

But, to be sure, there must always be a well-thought out, bulletproof plan. And then a back-up. Because honestly, no child of mine is going to tell me he's not going to college and not give me a realistic, productive alternative and think I'm going to be a-ok with that.

I can agree with this. I know college isn't for everyone and there are honestly things that don't need four year degrees. I do want them to have a plan. it's not always about making money. To be happy with your choice in life you need to find your passion. Let's say my dd decided she wants to be a writer of children's books. Not much money unless you make it big and not something she needs a degree for but I would send her to writing conferences, retreats or workshops to try to give her that extra edge. If my son wanted to be a painter I would encourage him to apply to art schools or the many cultural programs they offer in the large cities. I hope I'm making sense.

[tricia80]

Originally Posted by AndrewsMother

Call it snobbery or whatever you would like, but I still believe that this is true.
A college education provides options and opens doors that are shut without them. I can't imagine doing anything in life, that would fullfil me personally, that does not require a graduate degree. "I" would be miserable without that option.

Exactly.. YOU.. it may not be like that for your DS... why push YOUR feelings onto him...

Your degree would be pretty much useless if you have been home raising babies for 10-20yrs... your skills would be outdated... technology moves fast... think 20 yrs ago how many companies did what we do now on computers.. With no computer skills you wouldn't make it... (obviously not an issue with MDC mamas)

I will support and love my child no matter what she decides.. if she decides to go to college than i will support her... if she wants to be a SAHM then i will support her...

FYI not every school requires a masters.. if u want to teach and can't get your masters you can teach at a private mennonite school... i have a 21yr old teacher bringing my dd back up to grade level after her PS teacher with a masters abandoned her..

I love school .. my dd struggles and she wants to be done.. As long as she can read, write, do math.. i am satisfied.. i don't care if she doesn't know about the history of blah blah blah... Personally I love learning about things and will read lots on different subjects because its interesting.. not because i am forced to.. i can't remember what was in my HS history class because I don't care... not relavent to me being a nurse... BTW i do not believe to be a bedside nurse you need a 4 yr degree unless your in a specialized area.. but the govt and i differ on that view... so i am FORCED into getting a degree... :