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Help me sort out my reaction to a mainstream mama - Page 2

post #21 of 97
I understand your concern. My SIL and her husband used CIO with their 2 babes and I totally could not understand how they could do it. (And I have been there at bedtime the kids did not cry for a minute). After trying to see each others views we now know that this is just not an area we discuss. We have chosen to respect that we are raising our kids our way and to support each other the best we can.
post #22 of 97
Quote:
I don't believe her that he only cried for 5 minutes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinemama View Post

But, as moxie points out, there really do seem to be two types of kids, those who release tension by fussing and those who don't.

http://moxie.blogs.com/askmoxie/2006...s_and_cio.html

Which is why, though I would never advocate CIO in the slightest, I think there is a world of difference between a mother who says, "You know, my kid cries for a few minutes and then goes right to sleep" and a mother who says, "Yeah, we let him cry for two hours - that taught him!"

You know? It's all in the attitude. One has figured out what her kid seems to need to fall asleep, one is just following some one-size-fits-all sleep training tactic.

So I guess in a situation like this, without knowing the mother any better, I would tend to believe her. I would look at her as a person: do I like her, is she funny, smart, interesting, would I like to hang out with her? And that's what I'd base my reaction on. Her as a fellow mother who loves her kid, just like I do.
Yeah. Mine sometimes cries five minutes in my arms. I try everything. Sometimes she needs to be swaddled and left alone. It was totally different with the first and who knew I'd get a baby like this?
post #23 of 97
My two closest girlfriends are all pregnant right along with me, though I'm pregnant with my 2nd and them their 1st. I already know they are mainstream by the way they talk and question the things I do. However, once we do get into a discussion about my parenting choices, they are never able to argue with me bc I am fully loaded with research and experience. I try not to judge; I had a mainstream approach before I ever became a mother because it was what I was used to.. but as soon as I became a mother, my maternal instincts went into overdrive and I could never imagine causing pain or unnecessary distress on my child. I'm hoping maybe they will be the same...
post #24 of 97
It is hard sometimes, but I fight the urge and then when things click into place I am so happy that we did it this way. When you are in those kinds of situations you have to decide what you want to do and how it will harm any relationships.

Example: Our city has a number of Jews, but only a couple Moroccan synagogues. We've chosen the best (in our opinion) of them and plan to live here for a few years. So, when I hear the discussion between the Rabbi's daughter and some other women about how they CIO because "it is best for the kids" and how moms who bf after a year "have issues" I bite my tongue. I'll say something if asked directly but I temper it. If I said what I wanted to (or what dh says to me later) it would become a huge deal and not something I want to deal with. (Though I do have fantasies about moving far away and then the night before we leave giving her a piece of my mind.)
post #25 of 97
yeah.. it is hard for me too.. I keep revisiting the issue
because my child need to socialize and yet in my area
I have no luck of finding anyone like minded and
so it is hard..

I am trying to make it for the sake of little one
so she can play with other kids but
every few minutes I bump into something that
I can't say because I know what reaction it would
bring or I try really hard not to comment on
something the other mama says and I am
split between internal emotional throw up.. eye roll
or just run away syndromme..

I stick there through the play date, I try to
keep conversation on very impersonal level
and it is hard.. as it is just hard because it is not me
and petending all the time is just a mental struggle
that leaves me crawling mentally and recovering
after each and every meeting.

It is unhealthy on some level that I am sure because
it is supposed to be an opportunity to socialize for
moms as well as kids but
after so many trials I just see that as finding new
friend for myself is not easy for obvious reason
as nobody can be friend with just first better person
here we are dealing with a case of trying to make
friendship with someone who is just a potential
because he has kid of our age.. so

now the kid's compability kicks in and that makes
it double hard.

so now I have to deal with the issue of my incopatibility
with other mama and my kid compatibility or incompatibility
with her peer..

having such a difficulty so far I decied that if I will stay
away from people just because they have different parenting
views will leave my child friendless and social less and
that is bad too..

so I am trying to do little steps in just closing my soul
to the ideas and treat them as they are coming from tv or
whatever and try not to comment on anything and keep
my things to me.

It is just tough. I can only tell you that I tried it all

- avoid all people as I was sick after few tryings..
bad just as anything because soon I felt that my child
was not having any kids to play with except accidental
playground stranger kids..

- meeting the other parents who think CIO and formula and stuff... and trying to explain my points of views
and discuss theirs (don't ever go there as this is best
and fastest way to end things and leave you with bad taste..
but of course do what you want.

- then finally I did this.. prepare to be amused:
so.. I meet this couple in a bookstore.. super nice sweet
she is a doctor, he is a IT whatever.. and so we both
love them and her kiddo is playing so nice with my
both love the experience.. the parents beg us to
meet again, exchange contacts.. I email her and knowing
she is a OBGYN I think.. hm.. she is a doctor she has a child
she will understand natural parenting..
so I write nice heart warming and inviting email to her
and do the "btw.. I still nurse my 3.5 year old and I hope
it is okay with you and I only say it to you since
we were to meet blah blah blah.. and since you are
doctor etc... etc.. etc... "..

guess what.. NEVER HEARD FROM them again!!!

: good riddence I say.. I tried that one too so now I know
that I don't need to worry what would happen if I ever would
totally open with other parent to my ways upfront..
so now no more wondering.. I know. Knowledge is power ha ha ha..

so now I realize that the older kids get the easier it is as
there is less and less things that are controversial..
of course new are coming but at least the many things
of early childhood are not the topic of discussion anymore
so we are good in those areas.. and the rest is less
and I am getting bit emotionally stronger per getting more sleep
and my hormons stablizing due to more stabilized nursing habits
of my little one so I can take crap bit easier..

yeah.. it is a lot to do of how well you can handle the crap.

I am sure some day I will meet more mind like parents but now
it is just hard for we really have very limited geographical pareameters
for finding someone and we live in area that is running on
speed and any baby who does not support the idea of
parental career advancement by utilizing CIO to allow faster
and artificial STTN or won't take formula on voluntary basis
will be forced to do so at "bottle point" (as in at gun point). :

so.. here we are.. just had two non like moms meetings in last two days,
I feel exhosted but I look at my daughter and she is so happy
she met her friends, she had lots of fun, she could run together, draw together, talk together, slide together..

and for them all that stuff does not matter so I am going
to put up thorought this till God will smile upon us and send
us some person who will be tru friend and will be equally
happy to hang out with us as we will be..

till then.. just like convenience marriage based on
mutual momentarly need rather then love.. we wil play pretend with
that other parents and divorce when we will get sick of it and can't do it anymore.

thanks for venting at the same time as answering your post.

hugs
post #26 of 97
I will say it gets MUCH easier as your children age - AP is much less obvious and in your face when your kids are school age vs. babies.

That said, some of our closest friends had a baby about a year ago. She had no intention of ever trying to breastfeed, bought babywise and still swears by it, and both of them are total helecopter parents. I've had to just let it go and not let it bother me - they are both very good parents and LOVE their dd to death! She was such a demanding little thing that she didn't really let Babywise work and even now they do everything they do for her, deeply believing it's in her best interest.

Who am I to judge? I don't agree with most of it! But I know they think I'm nuts too and much too "loose" with ds.

Our friendship matters too much to let how they parent end it. But we are very compatable in all other areas and have been friends a long, long time.

I do know how hard it is to meet like minded people - I still have not got that down. I'm not crunchy enough for most AP circles and too crunchy for the mainstream ones. So I fit in where I can.
post #27 of 97
I feel ya!

I was once sitting in a playgroup talking with a mom I knew from the community. She and her dh had just been to Paris (leaving their 13 month old w/grandparents). I had worked actively on not judging her for taking a trip without the baby, reminding myself that I didn't know how close the child was with the grandparents, that different things work for different families, etc... So I asked her enthusiastically about the trip and she said, "It was fine, but NameOfChild was clingy and fussy the whole time we were gone, and then when we got back we had to reFerberize him." And then bitched about having to hear him scream.

I sat there, stunned, then got up, scooped up my kid, and walked out. Perhaps not the best response, but it was the best I had in me that moment. I was likely to say something nasty if I had stayed.

That stuff is just hard. But I have found that if you look hard enough, you'll find kind, attached parents hiding in the woodwork most places. I live in a community of 2300 people and it hasn't been easy, but over the course of a couple years I patched together a network of friends and acquaintances whose values, if not exactly the same as mine, I can stand to be around and don't mind having my child exposed to.

Hugs and luck! Keep looking--you'll find your peeps.
post #28 of 97
I know how you feel.....where I used to work there were a LOT of moms with kids my ds' age and we would frequently exhange stories. The few times I ate lunch at work (reason #1 why I was a weird.....I ebf'ed and usually skipped lunch to nurse ds) I alsmot couldn't handle it. One woman told us how she turned on the kitchen stove fan so she wouldn't hear her 5 MONTH OLD crying himself to sleep. Another mom berated me for not doing birthday parties (we don't celebrate birthdays), saying my child was missing out on so much, then inthe same breath mentioned starting her 4 month old on for ula so that she could leave him with a sitter and stay out all night and get wasted (her exact words). Because that's so mmuch better.....?????
post #29 of 97
It's tough to bridge the gap between the different styles of parenting. Even in my AP group there are a few mom's who lean more toward mainstream parenting, but seem to be there to learn more about APing. It's tough to bite your tongue, etc etc.

We had a gathering yesterday, a couple girlfriends and I, and one of them was complaining how the health nurse told her leaving a baby in a car seat for an extended period of time was bad, and how she KNEW it wasn't. I finally spoke up and was like, "Yeah, she was actually very right. It's not good for the babe, at all". She looked at me dumbfounded, and then quickly retracted her statement, and moved onto complain about something else. We left shortly after that, and I just kept to myself, and DS for the remainder of the playdate.

Then of course, I have a girlfriend who is the CIO, if they can ask for breastmilk it's bad, yelling, punishing behavior that's normal, and leaving her baby on the kitchen table in a infant seat type of gal. I've posted about her several times on here. I'm surprised at this point, that we're friends still. The other day, she says to me, after I have spent the last 3 months telling her that pumps are not efficient, and will never be as good as nursing on demand (she has supply issues), "You know what's weird? When I started nursing on demand my supply went up!" I nearly banged my head against the computer desk.

I'm ranting now. Anyway, if there isn't an AP group in your area, why don't you start one? Facebook is a great way to network, and you'd be surprised at the ones who come out of the woodwork! I definitely wouldn't be active in any playdates if I wasn't with sort of likeminded mom's.
post #30 of 97
I didn't read all the posts yet, but guessing I may be in the minority on this one.

Quote:
I actually said, "oh no, you didn't let him CIO did you?" and she said well he only really cried for 5 minutes. I left immediately after that exchange.
To be completely honest, I think that is really mean. It seems very judgemental to say oh no you didn't really do________, and then leave right after. It may be your personal opinion that CIO or "whatever" is wrong for your family, but really! do you think it is your place to judge what others do?

I think Bumbo chairs are stupid, I BF my toddlers, I carried them around in a mei tai, I also did use CIO. I never went up to someone else and said Oh no, you used a bumbo chair! formula! your baby still sleeps with you! and ran away from them.

In my personal experience baby up at night was okay for a while, but after my second was 11 months, I went back to work full time and for 6 months still feed at night, taking care of a toddler a 3 year old and working full time and not having a full night of sleep in years, it takes its toll, to the point I couldn't cope. 2 night of crying and we all slept better, I had more engergy and was a better mom for it, and my son is no less attched to me for it! The point being is that all moms do the best for their families, for some people having a certain amount of sleep is crutial to their ability to be calm, have patience and get through the day, this amount of sleep is different for everyone. It really bothers me when people are so judgemental! BF is the same way, I am all for BF and BF my children for a long time, yet I know of someone who was horribly depressed, BF was going fine, but she hated it, and had PPD. (not that all mom with PPD have issues with BF, but she did)She swtiched to formula and was happier for it, sure it is not as "nutritious" but having a depressed mother is also not healthy for a baby and has long term implications, and in her case she and her baby had a better outcome with formula. So until you walk in someone elses shoes, why do you feel it is your place to tell someone else they are wrong?
post #31 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by hibiscus mum View Post
Is CIO considered mainstream? And by mainstream, I mean is it really common? That makes me very sad.

I'd have a hard time going back too. I'm stuggling with finding a group in my area because I'm new here and have no mom firnds - no friends at all, really. You could try going to meetup.com and maybe starting your own AP group. I've considered that myself.
Yes. It's "normal", "expected". Just visit a mainstream birthboard. Questions like "how long do you let YOUR baby cry???", tossed around like it's nothing.

It's abuse, IMO.
post #32 of 97
Thread Starter 
Mama's thank you for all of the support and insight.

I think I may try to meet-up with the mama one more time, if nothing but to just reconcile the way I acted previously. It is not in my nature to be rude, and I don't want to alienate her for her parenting style. Plus, I figure the best way to expose someone to something different and have them come away with a positive experience about it is to be open and kind. And I think maybe she just has simply never been exposed to anything other than her mainstream parenting. She seems genuinely sweet and good-natured.

To the previous poster who commented on C-sections, I didn never judge that for any reason. But her's was truly elective, although she did mention that everyone in her family and even her partner;t 'believe' she would make it through the labor process (she is young and didn't mention any birth complications in her detailed birth story.) My heart went out to her for this. I can't even imagine having my partner telling me that I wouldn't make it through labor. So yes I think I will go to the playgroup once more, just to offer a better side of myself.

As for finding like-minded mommas, I know they are out there, in fact I saw one mamma walk by my house twice wearing her LO in an ergo, I think the ext time I see her I am going to run out of my house and say hello (a little desperate I know.) I'm also going to hit up LLL meetings and try and start an AP goup if I can't find one to fall into.

I've realized that at this point in my life I cannot bild meaningful relationships ith people who parent radically different than I do. If I can't feel comfortable NIP with them there, then really who am I fooling. At this point in my life being mamma is everything to me, and it is 90% of what I want to talk about when I meet new people.

Thanks for all of the insight.
post #33 of 97
Thread Starter 
I didn't tell anyone they were wrong I just made it clear that I'm not ok with CIO. She wasn't obviously offended by what I said, and I left politely making an excuse about meeting my spouse for lunch (we had already been hanging out for about an hour). I think we live in a society that too often withholds the truth to placate a situation. I'm not that type of person and have no aspirations to be that way. I think CIO is wrong in every situation (although I understand some LOs need to fuss for a few minutes to be able to sleep.)

I think you are being a little defensive because you are trying to validate your own experience with CIO. And like I said I understand that some of us need to FF and some of us need to get elective CS and all that, but no one NEEDS to let a LO CIO.
post #34 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldingoddess View Post
I've realized that at this point in my life I cannot bild meaningful relationships ith people who parent radically different than I do. If I can't feel comfortable NIP with them there, then really who am I fooling. At this point in my life being mamma is everything to me, and it is 90% of what I want to talk about when I meet new people.
That's fine. Just don't be offended if other people refuse to be friends with you because you parent differently from them. That kind of thing cuts both ways.
post #35 of 97
Finding friends, for yourself and your child, and accepting different parenting styles is a hard balance to strike. Have you tried looking at either of these websites for local groups?

attachmentparenting.org

holisticsmoms.org

I feel really lucky that I found a group of moms who were pretty in tune with their babies and were very responsive to them. These are the "mom friends" that I am closest to, whom I would let me son go play at their houses, who I swapped babysitting with. But, you are never going to find someone who parents just the way you do. I trust that most parents are doing the best they can with what they have, and assume that they have a good reason for making the choices they do. So, when one mom friend from the group did start to let her daughter cry at night, it was after a year and a half of multiple night wakings, and mom getting no sleep. She was completely sleep deprived - constantly on edge, was beginning to scare herself with her driving, she was too exhausted to put anything into her relationship with her husband, etc. She made the decision that some crying at night was what she needed to do so that she could be in a better place during the day. I could never use CIO myself (my DS is 4.5 and still wakes at night!), but I feel there is no way I could judge her. Obviously, this is just one example, but I think illustrates that we don't always know what went into a parent's decision making process, and that it isn't fair to make judgements when we don't know the whole story.

I have a wider circle of friends whom I know don't use very AP or natural parenting practices. I wouldn't leave my child alone with them because I don't trust they would care for him the way I would. I tend to just avoid talking about parenting techniques with them. They are people I enjoy spending time with, and although I may not agree with specific approaches, I think they are good parents with well adjusted kids. I also try to remember that each of these things, CIO or formula feeding or whatever are each just one aspect of parenting. If most things are done well and the child has an overall secure upbringing over the course of their childhood, they are most likely going to be fine.
post #36 of 97
I don't know, when I get together with Moms, most of all birthing choices hardly ever come up except in passing. I had natural childbirth, and I'm yet to have anyone ask me how I had him that I just met. Most people don't know my birth story, not because it's a secret or anything but its just that it didn't come up much after the first month or so. I honestly don't get how you sit down with a Mom you just met and have birthing choices, FF/BF, AND CIO come up during a fairly casual conversation. I would have to go back to the drawing board on my standard conversation topics. With my friends we mostly talk about Daddies helping out, poopy diapers, growth and development, and good baby shopping deals we found. Go neutral on the topics, because there is no need for you to feel/experience a rift with every Mom you meet because your parenting practices don't exactly match.
post #37 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by choli View Post
That's fine. Just don't be offended if other people refuse to be friends with you because you parent differently from them. That kind of thing cuts both ways.
I would be fine with that.

The only reason I see my SIL is for family reasons. To watch her hit her children hurts me inside. It hurts me for the children, for her because she doesn't know better, and for her children's children, because they will learn to hit them too. I would have no problems if she wouldn't want to be friends with me because I DON'T hit my kids.

I can't stand by and hear stories of abuse (CIO, hitting) and smile and nod. It's not in me.
post #38 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kappa View Post
I don't know, when I get together with Moms, most of all birthing choices hardly ever come up except in passing. I had natural childbirth, and I'm yet to have anyone ask me how I had him that I just met. Most people don't know my birth story, not because it's a secret or anything but its just that it didn't come up much after the first month or so. I honestly don't get how you sit down with a Mom you just met and have birthing choices, FF/BF, AND CIO come up during a fairly casual conversation. I would have to go back to the drawing board on my standard conversation topics. With my friends we mostly talk about Daddies helping out, poopy diapers, growth and development, and good baby shopping deals we found. Go neutral on the topics, because there is no need for you to feel/experience a rift with every Mom you meet because your parenting practices don't exactly match.
She brought everything up. I never mentioned anything about my birth, didn't mention that I breast feed (also didn't bf because I didn't feel comfotable), nothing. Really though how do you steer clear oft these subjects when you have an infant. I mean we talked about carseats and poopy diapers and the weather too, but when you both don't have older kids to talk about, these subjects come up.
post #39 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldingoddess View Post
She brought everything up. I never mentioned anything about my birth, didn't mention that I breast feed (also didn't bf because I didn't feel comfotable), nothing. Really though how do you steer clear oft these subjects when you have an infant. I mean we talked about carseats and poopy diapers and the weather too, but when you both don't have older kids to talk about, these subjects come up.
You could talk about non-child related subjects. Most parents are very happy to get a chance to get away from the kid talk.
post #40 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldingoddess View Post
She brought everything up. I never mentioned anything about my birth, didn't mention that I breast feed (also didn't bf because I didn't feel comfotable), nothing. Really though how do you steer clear oft these subjects when you have an infant. I mean we talked about carseats and poopy diapers and the weather too, but when you both don't have older kids to talk about, these subjects come up.
Come to think of it, if she had been a little less open, our meeting would have gone a lot better. Generally I'm a big fan of being open, but there is such a thing as being too open right? Maybe that is what added to the uncomfortable feeling of the situation. It would have been nice to just talk about less intense subjects. I literally didn't share anything about my parenting style, except by example (changing Rowan's cloth diaper) and the comment after she mentioned CIO.
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