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Help me sort out my reaction to a mainstream mama - Page 4

post #61 of 97
[QUOTE=babymommy2;13918473]Think of all the posts you have read on here about how people feel judged or hear snide comments from others becasue they BF a 2 year old or refuse TV! [QUOTE]

I do feel for the moms who get snide comments over doing the things I place a high value in like extended breastfeeding(even though I couldn't EBF I still value it highly and would be bothered by someone having a cavalier attitude towards BFing. I have very high standards, but its because I believe there is a way to treat a child and there are concrete ways not to. I don't feel bad about that at all. I would not feel bad being judgemental about certain behaviors I view as abusive to children, either. Over all I think people under-value children in this society and I am personally tired of hearing about how I am supposed to believe that at the heart of it we all love our kids. That just isn't true. IT would be nice, but it's just not. And even then, when you do love them IMO love is not enough. IT takes more than just love to raise a child well.


All that said. I have learned something from this thread and some recent experiences. I would not stop being friends with an exsisting best friend over a lot of the parenting choices mentioned in this thread. I would, however, not choose to start a new one with someone who made choices I didn't agree with. Like or not, that's how I feel.


Sometimes judgement is warranted. It just hurts my heart to much to think about the awful way children are treated in the name of parenting. PArenting is a privelege and with that comes.....yep, you guessed it, responsibility.

My 2 cents.
post #62 of 97
Interesting thread. I think some tolerance could be had.

For those of you who refuse to be friends with children who are circed, how do you go about this? Do you check everyone's diaper before accepting a playdate? I just find this so odd, because my son is very young, and I have never had any mother ask me if he is circed or not. I can't imagine how a child's genitals even come into the conversation to determine if they are "friend" material or not....
post #63 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldingoddess View Post
I just moved to a new place and went to a momma group that I found at meet-up. I should preface this story by saying that I have only ever met/hung out with AP mommas. Even my semi-mainstream family members breastfed/co-slept and didn't CIO (except my sister, but we don't talk.)

Well the meet-up group ended up just being me and one other momma. She was elective c-section, formula feeding by choice, CIO. It was shocking to me. I could handle the elective c-section/formula feeding...I get that a lot of times it is just bad information and lack of support that makes people choose these things, but the CIO really struck a horrible cord with me. When she started explaining how she got her LO to STTN, I actually said, "oh no, you didn't let him CIO did you?" and she said well he only really cried for 5 minutes. I left immediately after that exchange. And quite frankly I don't believe her that he only cried for 5 minutes.

I am so angry that she let her LO CIO. I'm angry but I am jealous too. I want my LO to STTN so bad. Isn't this horrible? How do you mommas handle hanging with more mainstream mommas, or do you just not do it? I don't think I can do it again. I feel so yucky right now. I also don't want to be so judgmental, but CIO just seems so wrong to me, I can't help it.
There is a BIG difference between CIO and fussing. My DS fussed for a little bit before going to sleep at times when he was an infant. His little body knew he was tired but didn't want to go to sleep, so he fought it. Finally, he fell asleep.
We never let him scream or cry himself asleep. I don't consider fussing to be CIO. If anyone else does, please explain it to me.
I'm not 100% AP and I'm not 100% mainstream - pleasantly in the middle!
post #64 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calee View Post
Interesting thread. I think some tolerance could be had.
Yes, you are right. Tolerance is wonderful. But I do not have to be friends (or REMAIN friends) with someone that beats their kids. Or neglects them at night to "train" them. To me, that speaks to their core morals, their personality, their lack of intelligence to figure out a better more loving way to take care of their children. I do not have any desire whatsoever to associate with someone like that.

So maybe I'm intolerant. But I also hate wife-beaters. I hate child molesters. And to me, abusing a child by beating them or neglecting them falls into the same playing field. Not for me.
post #65 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calee View Post
Interesting thread. I think some tolerance could be had.

For those of you who refuse to be friends with children who are circed, how do you go about this? Do you check everyone's diaper before accepting a playdate? I just find this so odd, because my son is very young, and I have never had any mother ask me if he is circed or not. I can't imagine how a child's genitals even come into the conversation to determine if they are "friend" material or not....
Maybe it's cultural/demographic or as pps said, maybe it's a new mom thing.

Gosh I can't even bump into a complete stranger at the mall without touching on every hostile topic out there.

"oh how cute! is she sttn? how long did it take to sleep train her?"
"she's so big and chubby, what formula do you use?"
"oh you're not stiiiill using that sling are you? she'll never learn to play without you!"
"is he done?" (no! he's a she and i wouldn't have my son "done"!!! arggghhh)

anyways it goes on and on and it's terribly uncomfortable b/c then i either have to pander/avoid their probes thus sacrificing my activism on the issues or i have to start some argument and i get rude looks like i'm a mutant. and apparently so is my child.

i've learned something: those who practice some of the hot button things such as ff, circ, cio etc are extremely fragile and aggressive. they will not leave you alone until you bow down to them or disappear. so i think a PP said it perfectly when she pointed out that she would remain friends w/ someone despite differences, but would not make new friends. if boundaries are already laid down it is easier to maintain respect. i have yet to meet someone willing to keep it at that level when they are different from me.
post #66 of 97
Well...hmmm...i haven't read the whole thread but here goes.
I don't know that many AP moms IRL. Most of the moms I know are very mainstream, and the one that I am the closest to (she lives in my building) is very, very mainstream. She did/does CIO with both of her children. I don't like it at all and it's not the way I would choose to put my LO to sleep. That said, despite our parenting philosophies being so different, she's a fantastic mother who adores her wonderfully happy children.
eta:As someone upthread mentioned, she's been told by her ped, friends, family etc. that CIO is safe and fine so why wouldn't she think it was?
post #67 of 97
TO me that is just not a good reason/rationalization to say "everyone told her it was safe so why wouldn't she think it was"?

No body told me how to be a mom. Nobody told me that when my child cries it might be a good idea to go to them, soothe them, pick them up etc. That is just natural. It is unnatural to ignore a crying baby. She would have to go against instinct IMO to do that. Why would you do what others told you to do anyway?
Plus, she could know it was bad if you told her it was. Just a thought, I know sometimes it doesn't help to tell people things.
post #68 of 97
Frankly, I am so sensitive to those things that I just don't hang out with mainstream mamas/groups. I think it might be easier for me to do when my son is older (he's only 16mo right now), but right now I really need the support and don't want to put myself or him in those sorts of upsetting situations.

If I were you, I'd seek out local AP groups organized through meetup.com, API, or MDC. I met a lovely bunch of AP mamas through my local chapter of API and we get together every week for our same-aged kids to play, and every month or so for family potlucks. It keeps me sane for sure.
post #69 of 97
i think we are more sensitive as new moms. i feel bad for people who tell they do things like CIO, Circ, Spank etc.. i am easy read... i can't help it.. trust me i have tried. i can smile and nod through FF and other stuff life that but those three i can't stomach.

no i don't blame you. and i don't blame you for asking if she CIO the way you did... i don't think it was a conscious as much as it probably just slipped out. and i might not have believed the five minutes thing either since it was in response to you obvious horror. poor woman probably had no idea someone would be so horrified by it.

circ does change how i feel about people. my incredibly AP circd her son.. i have no idea why... she seemed interested when i told her why i didn't and then thought it was more prone to infection which i said it is not and then she dropped it so i did to. i love her and i know that if she decides it was the wrong choice thats her business and its a hard and private realization. but it did change how i felt a little it just hurts me to think about. mostly i get mad at the doctors who do it b/c i know with 100% certainty she would not have done it if she didn't think it was the best thing to do
post #70 of 97
I am so amazed at all the people who will not let their chilldren play with Muslims or Jews. Speaking of human rights! And please don't say that has nothing to do with circumcision. Wow. Remind me to point out our family's religion right away so we don't have to go through a painful friend divorce later when we leave their bigoted booties!
post #71 of 97
i firmly believe there is a difference between RIC and religious circumcision. as far as i know most of the Jewish and Muslim Mamas think so too.
post #72 of 97
Nobody's making that point here, though. Shouldn't be surprised. Every time it seeps out of the circ board, the same comments come up. I'd rather make a mistake and have my child cry for an hour that expose him to a lifetime of hate. Luckily some can find it in their hearts to do neither!
post #73 of 97
i guess i always assume we are referring to RIC. and as far as i am concerned RIC and religious circumcision are not the same thing. the intent, the procedure, the reasoning, the history is all different. i know some people don't differentiate but i would never ever judge a mama who gave her son a bris or.. i can't recall what the muslim ceremony is called... but that is not my place. wow i am having trouble responding b/c to me the really are completely separate things.. ones a religious ceremony that is not done lightly... and one is a cosmetic procedure
post #74 of 97
ethnocentric is the word i was looking for. two totally different cultures, totally different things. judging Jews or Muslims for circumcising their children based on RIC in the US is completely ethnocentric.
post #75 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisteeesmama View Post
TO me that is just not a good reason/rationalization to say "everyone told her it was safe so why wouldn't she think it was"?

No body told me how to be a mom. Nobody told me that when my child cries it might be a good idea to go to them, soothe them, pick them up etc. That is just natural. It is unnatural to ignore a crying baby. She would have to go against instinct IMO to do that. Why would you do what others told you to do anyway?
Plus, she could know it was bad if you told her it was. Just a thought, I know sometimes it doesn't help to tell people things.
This is sooooo arrogant! How do you possibly know what another Mother's instincts were? Just because you have certain feelings or beliefs doesn't mean that anyone else will possibly feel the same way. The level of intolerance is absolutely staggering!

I have 4 kids. Not one of which has been remotely the same as the one before. In the past I have co-slept, BF, worn my baby, selectively vaxed...I have also let one CIO and fully vaxed others. It is good to know that based on the opinions of some, I am an abusive mother. Thanks for the support...
post #76 of 97
i don't think we have instincts about vax particularly. i do think we have the instinct to birth, BF, co sleep (or be near baby), respond to cries etc.

i have a hard time when someone says that they followed their instincts to circ, cio, FF etc. i don't think those things are instinctual. but if i were going to believe someone who told me they were it would be someone on here... so am i totally off? can these things be instinctual?
post #77 of 97
I had a similar conversation recently when a mom recommended a book the was clearly a CIO type of book. I said "Well, I've tried some of the techniques in the "No Cry Sleep Solution." I think that let her know where I stood on the matter.
post #78 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by my3pirates View Post
This is sooooo arrogant! How do you possibly know what another Mother's instincts were? Just because you have certain feelings or beliefs doesn't mean that anyone else will possibly feel the same way. The level of intolerance is absolutely staggering!

I have 4 kids. Not one of which has been remotely the same as the one before. In the past I have co-slept, BF, worn my baby, selectively vaxed...I have also let one CIO and fully vaxed others. It is good to know that based on the opinions of some, I am an abusive mother. Thanks for the support...
nak

yeah i agree with this

not all moms have a natural instinct or the underlying 'common sense.' i think women are really conditioned to distrust and ignore their body and to distrust and second doubt their instinct and their mind.

everything about us....our cycles, our womb, our ability to give birth, our ability to raise children...it is all criticised and overmanaged. that can negatively impact a woman's confidence and lead her to make poor choices which can harm her children.

i have a friend who did cio w/ her first kid. she is a loving and awesome mama. it was simply a situation where she was the product of an entire culture telling women 'you can't do it. you don't know best. here, we'll teach you.' she even said how sick she felt doing it. but it wasn't until the 2nd time around that she was strong enough to do it her way.

that being said, i still couldn't become good friends w/ someone who is in that place of supporting things such as physical discipline, cio and ric. their mindset is in a different place and especially as several people have already highlighted, their negative self-schema and image/security issues can make for a real fight.
post #79 of 97
One of my dearest mom friends circ'ed her son. She's not Jewish or Muslim, it's just something they did. Frankly, I couldn't picture our lives without her or her son, we're all incredibly close and she brings so much love to her child and our children. I don't agree with circumcision in the least, but I if I restricted my friendships to those who made the exact same parenting decisions I do, then I'd have very few friends.
post #80 of 97
some people don't know better and you do the best you can with the information you have at the time. however, i cannot stomach it when people have the information and do it anyway. then its not a mistake or a lack of information.. its just wrong.
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