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Help me sort out my reaction to a mainstream mama - Page 5

post #81 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisteeesmama View Post
TO me that is just not a good reason/rationalization to say "everyone told her it was safe so why wouldn't she think it was"?

No body told me how to be a mom. Nobody told me that when my child cries it might be a good idea to go to them, soothe them, pick them up etc. That is just natural. It is unnatural to ignore a crying baby. She would have to go against instinct IMO to do that. Why would you do what others told you to do anyway?
Plus, she could know it was bad if you told her it was. Just a thought, I know sometimes it doesn't help to tell people things.
A big problem is lack of support for those who choose not to CIO. It is CONSTANTLY suggested by everyone, including doctors. People trust their docs and friends. In our society we are very often encouraged to ignore our natural instincts. We also live in a country where many, many people are very parent centered instead of child centered. A whole lot of this comes from the pressure women face to stay in the workplace when they have young children and try to juggle everything. We are not a family friendly society.

It is difficult to get past the societal push toward the easier, more convenient way. It's the American way. You go with the crowd unless you do tons of reading and research or have been lucky enough to have been shown another way. The same holds true for formula feeding. It is in your face and waved as the dangling carrot that beckons "This is the easy way and it's still good for your baby. Everyone does it and their babies turn out fine." Then, boom, a few bumps in the road and good-bye nursing, hello formula. For those who have trouble, they have to be very committed to BF to overcome this attitude. I know that I was SO tempted to throw in the towel, but I was lucky. I have a best friend who BF and drove over 200 miles to be with me and help me get started. She was also a big influence on me b/c I knew she struggled with being the only one around who didn't CIO.

I luckily choose the Dr. Sears Baby Book to read while I was pregnant. If I hadn't read that book I don't know exactly where I'd be.

So I guess all I'm saying is that if you try to follow your natural instincts it's an uphill battle all the way.
post #82 of 97
We all make different choices and different decisions. As long as my friends genuinely care and love their kids, that's all that matters to me. I shy away from the spankers, but other than that we have friends on all sides of the parenting spectrum.

And you know what? By solely looking at their kids (vast majority are <5) I cannot for the life of me tell any difference between the kids who were AP'd and the ones who are parented mainstream. I'm sure you also know that it's not necessarily a black and white issue. One of my closer friends bf, didn't circ, use cloth diapers but then sleep trains via CIO. I'm pretty sure she knows where I stand on everything yet we get along great. It's not my place to judge her and in the end it would only cause resentment. Instead we remain good friends and keep our judgements to ourselves.

You can live in a world by yourself (because truly everybody's parenting style is different from the next - nobody will ever parent the exact same way you do) or you can set your differences aside and make great friendships.
post #83 of 97
i think thats definitely true. for some people it feels easy and we can't understand why it isn't for others. i am confident and a little pig headed.. and when i know i am right its nearly impossible to change my mind (you have to out reason me) some people are not as comfortable telling everybody else to take a hike. and some people how know what they think is right have a hard time standing up for themselves when people argue.
post #84 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa85 View Post
We all make different choices and different decisions. As long as my friends genuinely care and love their kids, that's all that matters to me. I shy away from the spankers, but other than that we have friends on all sides of the parenting spectrum.

And you know what? By solely looking at their kids (vast majority are <5) I cannot for the life of me tell any difference between the kids who were AP'd and the ones who are parented mainstream. I'm sure you also know that it's not necessarily a black and white issue. One of my closer friends bf, didn't circ, use cloth diapers but then sleep trains via CIO. I'm pretty sure she knows where I stand on everything yet we get along great. It's not my place to judge her and in the end it would only cause resentment. Instead we remain good friends and keep our judgements to ourselves.

You can live in a world by yourself (because truly everybody's parenting style is different from the next - nobody will ever parent the exact same way you do) or you can set your differences aside and make great friendships.
Thank you! That is what I was trying to say...although you said it much more eloquently!
post #85 of 97
I know I've piped up before, but I just wanted to say something else.

We're all on a different path in terms of our parenting journey. Some of us are still finding our senses, and some of us are confidently trekking of the mountain. However, we're all trying to learn, and to gain more perspective. Sometimes, our parenting style will literally take us down a different path then a dear friend. I don't think it's that you want to end the friendship, but when you can't find anything to talk about that doesn't end in awkward silence because someone has said something inconsiderate, it's hard not to drift from that.

I personally get so much flack from my IL's for parenting AP, and quite frankly, it's all I can take. I need to be surrounded by supportive, like minded mom's- not because I'm not a confident mom, but because being constantly told I'm wrong, or I don't know what I'm doing is draining, and sad.

It's not intolerant to not want to be around Mom's who parent differently. It's one thing if you are all respectful of each other and your opinions, but it's another when you feel attacked, or get those "looks". I personally HATE being told to let my DS CIO. Hate it. I have one girlfriend who constantly suggests it to me, and I finally had to shut her down and say, "I don't believe in it, there are no studies that prove it actually works permanently, and there are studies that prove it actually does more harm then good." She STILL brings it up. Why would I want to hang out with someone like that?

It's not intolerance, it's just a human matter of wanting to have a safe, supportive network.
post #86 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by my3pirates View Post
This is sooooo arrogant! How do you possibly know what another Mother's instincts were? Just because you have certain feelings or beliefs doesn't mean that anyone else will possibly feel the same way. The level of intolerance is absolutely staggering!

I have 4 kids. Not one of which has been remotely the same as the one before. In the past I have co-slept, BF, worn my baby, selectively vaxed...I have also let one CIO and fully vaxed others. It is good to know that based on the opinions of some, I am an abusive mother. Thanks for the support...
Well, luckily the people who know me love me and respect me for who I am and why I do what I do, that's good enough for me!

Also, I feel like for me it is about the kids. Kids are in the unfortunate position of not being able to stick up for themselves. They are stuck with what their parents think is right/better/easier etc. They are stuck with whatever treatment they get "out of love" or whatever.
Adults have options, obligations to seek out the truth and do right by their kids as their responsibility dictates.
My feelings are for the kids who have no choices, not the adults who didn't look into their options or follow their intuition or whatever excuse you or they can come up with to justify why they do what they do.

Maybe that is arrogat, but it feels right to me.
I have to be true to me.
post #87 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa85 View Post
We all make different choices and different decisions. As long as my friends genuinely care and love their kids, that's all that matters to me. I shy away from the spankers, but other than that we have friends on all sides of the parenting spectrum.

And you know what? By solely looking at their kids (vast majority are <5) I cannot for the life of me tell any difference between the kids who were AP'd and the ones who are parented mainstream. I'm sure you also know that it's not necessarily a black and white issue. One of my closer friends bf, didn't circ, use cloth diapers but then sleep trains via CIO. I'm pretty sure she knows where I stand on everything yet we get along great. It's not my place to judge her and in the end it would only cause resentment. Instead we remain good friends and keep our judgements to ourselves.

It's funny, I was at a friend's place and his two daughters both have kids the same age and he said exactly the same thing you did, completely unprompted. He said one DD homebirthed, no vax, co-sleep, nursed til the kid was 3, self weaned etc. Other DD had the kid in the hospital, vax, bottlefed, slept in the crib etc. He said you'd never be able to tell the kids apart. And really, knowing the amount of kids I do with the vast differences of parenting styles of the parents, they're all pretty much the same. Happy go lucky kids. I think that's a really nice thing, because it just screams to me despite our differences, we all love our kids and teach them love and respect for others and that is probably the most important thing about parenting, no matter the route.
post #88 of 97
I can tell a difference between kids that were beat and kids that weren't.
post #89 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldingoddess View Post
When she started explaining how she got her LO to STTN, I actually said, "oh no, you didn't let him CIO did you?" and she said well he only really cried for 5 minutes. I left immediately after that exchange. And quite frankly I don't believe her that he only cried for 5 minutes.

.
some babies really do only fuss for 5 minutes. Sometimes you get babies who are so content they really don't scream and cry in the night for hours on end. I hope you didn't judge her to quickly.
post #90 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandraS View Post
I can tell a difference between kids that were beat and kids that weren't.
Honestly, this is why GD is my single biggest AP platform issue. I also can usually tell the difference between kids who have had positive but firm discipline versus those who have either had overly permissive parenting or overly harsh parenting.

cosleeping, breastfeeding, all other AP practices are wonderful and go a long way in creating a deep bond between a child and parent - but honestly, if I had to pick one single thing to convert parents all over the world, and it could only be one thins I would choose GD, hands down over breastfeeding, or cosleeping or vaxing or even circumcision - it reaches every aspect of a child's life, and results in lifelong effects that others may or may not.

I was formula fed, never coslept, mom let me CIO one night for 15 min when I was under a year old and I never cried again (and she is not an exaggerator or liar, so I trust her on that), we didn't use natural healthcare products or organic food (though mom did cook from scratch largely)- so I had a pretty darn mainstream baby and childhood...BUT - BUT - BUT! They were GD to the core...and it has had such a profound impact on my entire life, that it is the single most important parenting choice I personally can think of...many other AP things kind of fade away as children get beyond the baby/toddler years, or at least fade in outward appearances...but GD goes on throughout your child and teen years and even beyond, and IMO is the most far-reaching parenting choice a parent can make.

Sooo, it's the one I'm most vocal about.

So while I can kind of agree that by the time kids get to be 5 years old or so it is difficult to tell the difference outwardly between a formula fed child and a breastfed child, or a CIOd child versus a cosleeping child (though this one usually correlates with AP more than others, too), or a stroller child vs a babyworn child, I can absolutely say in my own personal experience I can often see a difference in kids that have been parented with GD versus other discipline philosphies.
post #91 of 97
But... hopefully an AP'd child perpetuates that love and attachment to his or her own children. THAT is the difference!
post #92 of 97
I thik its easier for you to feel "superior" in a sense because you've made choices based on information and people you've had access to in your life, whom had a positive effect on your parenting. It's hard to see people causing pain "unknowingly" (they dont really realize what they are doing, even though it so obvious to us). However, there are might be people who think that YOU are causing unneccesary stress to your child, even though you may not realize that you are. If there was a more baby friendly way of doing something that you werent aware of, wouldn't you rather have someone share it with you rather than judge you and leave the room?

What if I said when you were changing your infant's cloth diaper "You dont ACTUALLY let him poo and pee in his pants do you?! That's disgusting." just because I had information and support on how to learn my newborn baby's bathroom cues and you have been told that baies need diapers. If I chose not to be friends with you because your baby was in diapers, you would feel hurt, and your baby might have missed the chance to communicate his bathroom needs. I see infants all the time who are trying to get their moms attention regarding pees and poops, but most mums aren't aware. Perhaps one day, when most parents have tuned in with their infants needs, IT MIGHT BE CONSIDERED CHILD ABUSE TO LET YOUR CHILD SIT IN WASTE, AND "DIAPER RASH" WILL BE A SIGN ON NEGLECT!! Obviously at this point in time, I don't expect or think that the parents who have their children in diapers are "bad," just unaware of this aspect of infant communication

stay open, and teach eachother where's the love? We moms need to stick together and quit hating!!!!
post #93 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by nudhistbudhist View Post
What if I said when you were changing your infant's cloth diaper "You dont ACTUALLY let him poo and pee in his pants do you?! That's disgusting." just because I had information and support on how to learn my newborn baby's bathroom cues and you have been told that baies need diapers. If I chose not to be friends with you because your baby was in diapers, you would feel hurt, and your baby might have missed the chance to communicate his bathroom needs. I see infants all the time who are trying to get their moms attention regarding pees and poops, but most mums aren't aware.
This is a great example and really made me think.
I would be pretty happy to have a real life friend who was actually ECing, that would rock and push me to want to do more, not make me feel bad. I would be glad for the push. And I would understand and sympathize with her level of empathy for children.
post #94 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by The4OfUs View Post
Honestly, this is why GD is my single biggest AP platform issue. I also can usually tell the difference between kids who have had positive but firm discipline versus those who have either had overly permissive parenting or overly harsh parenting.

cosleeping, breastfeeding, all other AP practices are wonderful and go a long way in creating a deep bond between a child and parent - but honestly, if I had to pick one single thing to convert parents all over the world, and it could only be one thins I would choose GD, hands down over breastfeeding, or cosleeping or vaxing or even circumcision - it reaches every aspect of a child's life, and results in lifelong effects that others may or may not.

I was formula fed, never coslept, mom let me CIO one night for 15 min when I was under a year old and I never cried again (and she is not an exaggerator or liar, so I trust her on that), we didn't use natural healthcare products or organic food (though mom did cook from scratch largely)- so I had a pretty darn mainstream baby and childhood...BUT - BUT - BUT! They were GD to the core...and it has had such a profound impact on my entire life, that it is the single most important parenting choice I personally can think of...many other AP things kind of fade away as children get beyond the baby/toddler years, or at least fade in outward appearances...but GD goes on throughout your child and teen years and even beyond, and IMO is the most far-reaching parenting choice a parent can make.

Sooo, it's the one I'm most vocal about.

So while I can kind of agree that by the time kids get to be 5 years old or so it is difficult to tell the difference outwardly between a formula fed child and a breastfed child, or a CIOd child versus a cosleeping child (though this one usually correlates with AP more than others, too), or a stroller child vs a babyworn child, I can absolutely say in my own personal experience I can often see a difference in kids that have been parented with GD versus other discipline philosphies.

wow thanks for the interesting post. i would also argue that you can tell the difference on other topics as well. for example, i can always tell if a baby/small toddler is fed milk or formula. and i can tell if an older child is fed cow's milk or is dairy free. there is a big difference in their structure and health (e.g. bags under the eyes/mucus). i didn't think this was even up for argument; it was just the way it was.

i guess you could also say other things can cause a difference too, such as babywearing and 'responding quickly' could raise an attached and happy baby. the problem with going into such an argument is that imo a lot of it is genetic and personality based. i think my dd would be a happy camper whether i wore her or not. she is just happy.
post #95 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by sisteeesmama View Post
This is a great example and really made me think.
I would be pretty happy to have a real life friend who was actually ECing, that would rock and push me to want to do more, not make me feel bad. I would be glad for the push. And I would understand and sympathize with her level of empathy for children.
We have a parents group where mums can come and socialize, plus an "infosession" on random topics each week. My gf asked to do an EC info session, and so many mums were so amazed, they went home and tried it themselves. I spoke also, and actually ended up doing a lil demo with my tiny baby who had to pee. I just whipped out his yogurt container with lid, and peed him right there It was wonderful. It just went to show us how much parents need support and information to make choices... with out knowing your options, you're not really "making a choice."

The CIO method is not promoted at all in our parent group. Parents are instructed to hold their babies, even if they cry in arms, it is better than crying alone This is a group put on by the government. I'm working up the courage to do an infosession on antivax, since they only do pro-vax ones. I'm just too passionate and dont wan't to end up getting mad

I really think in this day and age, most parents do seek out more info than what their doctor and parents offer in order to do what is best for they LO. Gotta love the internet. There is hope for us yet!!!
post #96 of 97
you can do it! i would have loved an info session like that! until MDC not vaxxing had never even crossed my mind.
post #97 of 97
Thank you for your vote of confidence I just get so angry when the publice health nurse comes in and says her bit. When I brought up mercury, for example, she says "Well, there's no more mercury in a vaccination than there is in a can of tuna." Interesting. I stopped eating tuna 4 years ago because of the MERCURY CONTENT!!! and the impact on the ocean too. Our own gov't says you shouldn't eat tuna more that once a month while pregnant. And thats for a full size human!!!!!

Oooops sorry. Rant.

Here's some love and good thoughts to moms and dads every where to dig deep and uncover truths for themselves, and spread the word, whether its about vax, circ, BF, EC, CIO, GD, co-sleeping, babywearing and all our other beautiful babylovin practices
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