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S/O of the lying thread~ Santa and other cultural myths, who purposely doesn't do them? - Page 3

post #41 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I'm sorry, but I do Santa, and it's lying. I'm pretending to my children that something is real, when I don't believe that it is. That's lying.

While I'm generally very, very honest with my kids (I've been accused of being too honest, particularly with ds1), and I don't like to think of myself as a liar...I am one. I'm lying. I maintain the charade all year, and I hide things from them, and tell them that a fat man is going to come down our chimney and eat his cookies and give the baby carrots to a reindeer. I know that's not going to happen. So...I'm lying. As bizarre as it may sound, I'm not dishonest enough to pretend otherwise.
If you want to refer to yourself as a liar or dishonest that is up to you. I resent being called something that I don't feel is appropriate. I have lots of reasons for the way I do things in my family. Do as you wish, but don't call other people names because of the way you feel about something. I believe that stories and myths are a key way for us to access deeper truths, these stories build into something more meaningful as we grow and develop our sense of spirituality. They are also fun and a part of childhood. I assume that no one feels they are 'lying' when they read a book or provide a voice for a toy. We don't feel obliged to say "You know this toy isn't real and can't really talk."

As my mum said "Do what you like, just don't ask me to do it." And watch to vocab too.
post #42 of 121
How do you handle this? Truthfully

What is your reason for doing it or not? I think it's weird, personally, that someone would go to such lengths to create an alternate world.

How old are your kids? Well DD is small so it will be a bridge we come to when she gets older, but we both have our minds made up about it.

What did your parents do? My parents were thought it was wrong, ethically and developmentally. His parents thought it was wrong, but tried for a softer approach.

How did that affect your choices? Eh, it never bothered me growing up knowing that santa was fake lol.

I think we are going to try out his parents idea b/c it involves a bit more fun than saying, "santa's fake" They tried more to create traditions on a santi-ish person having once existed (St. Nick). So the message was, "No, santa in a red suit who climbs down chimneys doesn't exist, but we celebrate these traditions b/c St. Nick did exist, here is his story."


ETA: I haven't completely held to this standard. I tried to convince my little sister that the tooth fairy gave her money. It was really cute to see her trying to figure out how a fairy got money under her pillow. But in the end her intelligence prevailed and she told me to stop teasing her (and to give her more money...talk about ungrateful! lmbo).
post #43 of 121
No Fairies?????? I don't think you can sell that one to me

But yeah, we're not going to do the rest of those...

How do you handle this? I like the idea of calling them stories and participating in the fun parts, 'just for pretend' as I tell my son

What is your reason for doing it or not? I am big on truth, it's Gandhi's fault

How is going so far? Great, my son gets 'pretend' at 15 months, he 'pretends' that his clock, stuffed animals and the other day a random piece of paper are nursing.

How old are your kids? My son is 15 months old so he hasn't been old enough for the holiday pretend things yet.

What did your parents do? Mom lied to me and would never come out and tell me so (like a pp said, i still remember when she wouldn't just admit it- i don't think i trusted her the same after that)

How did that affect your choices? that affects me alot. i'd rather create new traditions or keep the ones that are fun to me and talk abotu the reasons behind them rather then lie.
post #44 of 121
i'm jewish and raising our kids jewish so no santa here.

of course, i don't want my kids being the ones to ruin it for all the other kids in school.
post #45 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedgewitch View Post
If you want to refer to yourself as a liar or dishonest that is up to you. I resent being called something that I don't feel is appropriate. I have lots of reasons for the way I do things in my family. Do as you wish, but don't call other people names because of the way you feel about something. I believe that stories and myths are a key way for us to access deeper truths, these stories build into something more meaningful as we grow and develop our sense of spirituality. They are also fun and a part of childhood. I assume that no one feels they are 'lying' when they read a book or provide a voice for a toy. We don't feel obliged to say "You know this toy isn't real and can't really talk."

As my mum said "Do what you like, just don't ask me to do it." And watch to vocab too.
Do you believe in Santa? If not, do you pretend to your kids that you do? If you do, then you're lying. You can call it something else to feel better, but it's still lying.

My mom actually said the same thing recently. "It's not lying". I almost cracked up. My mom is the most honest person I've ever met, and even she is capable of pretending that deliberately lying to your child isn't lying if it's in the name of a cultural myth.

If you tell your child something is real, or deliberately lead your child to believe something is real, when you do not believe that yourself, you're lying. It's not namecalling, and I'm not accusing anybody of some horrible crime...but it's a lie.

My children know I'm providing the voice for the toy. They do not know that I'm the one who buys and wraps the gifts that are "from Santa". Those aren't the same thing at all. I also tell my children that stories are made up and pretend. I don't tell them than Santa is. The two things are completely different. If someone tells the Santa story, but doesn't pretend to their children that it's real, then they're not lying. If they're pretending that it's real, then they're lying. I really don't even get how anybody can even begin to argue that point.
post #46 of 121
Quote:
Sorry but I really resent the use of the word 'lying' when referring to parents who include mythology and magic in their family. Would you refer to a family of another religion as 'lying'?
Of course not. I don't believe in, say, Allah myself, but I believe Moslem parents believe in him (by definition), so they're telling their kids what they believe is true. As far as I know, most (all?) prents who tell their children about Santa don't believe in him themselves... hence, lying. Isn't telling someone something as if it were true, while knowing it not to be true, the definition of lying?

Mind you, I'm not overly hung-up about the Santa thing. I think it's possible to walk a line between blatantly saying "It's just pretend" and trying to actually convince your children that the North Pole s inhabited by a fat red-suited man. I love JRR Tolkien's "The Father Christmas Letters", in which he maintained an intensive charade of realism down to hand-painting North Pole stamps, but presumably didn't expect his kids to really believe it.

We do stockings in our house, but not from Santa. I guess we'll do the Tooth Fairy when DD reaches that age, because my parents did... I don't think doing it or not is a big issue, as long as the intent is neither "I want to lie to you and laugh at your tiny naivete behind your back or "I want to wring the joy from your childhood like a sponge, here are some photos of fish strangling in plastic bags". You know?
post #47 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasharna View Post
I've also noticed gifted kids seem more likely to view Santa as a lie and to treat parents with suspicion once the ruse is over.

Maybe that's it. I absolutely hated and distrusted my parents over the santa issue. I never really got over it.

No, my kids don't miss santa. Never have. Instead, they come to me with tales of how so and so was miserable because santa doesn't bring the "right" thing. They feel sorry for kids who have to deal with all the fuss and bother at holiday time while we are tucked in having quiet,quality family time during the winter solstice.

And yes, I think parents who carry on the ruse are deliberately lying to their kids. There can be no magic and no joy in family LIES.
post #48 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by philomom View Post
And yes, I think parents who carry on the ruse are deliberately lying to their kids. There can be no magic and no joy in family LIES.
While I absolutely agree that it's lying (I honestly don't know how anybody can claim otherwise), I totally disagree with the above. Santa was a source of great joy for me and my siblings, and for ds1. Those years of believing a fat man in a flying sleigh came to our house to help give us a nice Christmas were magic. The jury is still out for my little ones, and I truly hope they feel the same way ds1, my siblings and I all did.
post #49 of 121
I don't do santa/easter bunny/etc. But we do tell our kids what the "story" is so they get it culturally. They understand that some kids believe in Santa. This past year (4 years old) my kiddo told me he wanted to pretend Santa too. So we did that temporarily until he changed his mind. When he asks me if something is true or not I always answer honestly.

We still have wonderful and fun traditions for those holidays. I can still hide a gift and give a trail of clues to find it. I can still make bunny prints to the easter baskets. We still do Easter egg hunts. I just don't tell them the bunny left them. It's still lots of fun and excitement.

My parents did the whole santa and easter bunny and tooth fairy thing. They are great parents and it didn't damage me in the least. I just made a different choice for my own kids.
post #50 of 121
Quick question: So I remember when I was younger that I always felt really left out around Christian holidays. Other children were so excited and anxious about their holidays and their myths and would try to convince me of them. Being Jewish, Santa and the Easter Bunny are not part of my culture or religion. How do you guys address that to your children---children who do not believe or celebrate the same holidays?
post #51 of 121
We tell fantasy stories all the time and include mythical creatures in our daily fun. We have several homemade myths and creatures too. We all know it's pretend- although during some intense and well-timed references, our children do still ask us "are you pretending?" but it's with the expectation that we are, and accompanied by a little smile while asking.

That said, we don't do santa or eater bunny or tooth fairy. This is really because the version of these stories prevalent today is so watered down and uninteresting to us that we just don't really care about them.

That and we don't like to tie in our family fun and stories with branding, or marketing at all in any form.

We do celebrate many holidays though, and we all have fun doing so, but we just don't include those particular stories; they have the same feel as mainstream marketed Winnie the Pooh and Mickey Mouse to me, which I don't care to include in my family life. The original Winnie was sweet and interesting, and we read the original stories, but the current version is dull, imo. Same with Santa, and even if we tell our boys the story of Santa, they will know it is a story.

My boys like to role play with various culture's mythical creatures and stories and they do this all the time. No magic lost here. It happens every day, even without Santa and the tooth fairy and the easter bunny.

post #52 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by benj View Post
How do you guys address that to your children---children who do not believe or celebrate the same holidays?
I just tell my kids that Santa only comes to families that celebrate Christmas, and the Easter Bunny to families that celebrate Easter. The Tooth Fairy has never come up in this regard, and I have no knowledge of the origin of the Tooth Fairy.
post #53 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I just tell my kids that Santa only comes to families that celebrate Christmas, and the Easter Bunny to families that celebrate Easter. The Tooth Fairy has never come up in this regard, and I have no knowledge of the origin of the Tooth Fairy.
I never did the tooth fairy growing up. I grew up in a home very far removed from those kinds of things (extremely observant Chasidic home), so I don't even know how to do any of those things with my children.
post #54 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by benj View Post
I never did the tooth fairy growing up. I grew up in a home very far removed from those kinds of things (extremely observant Chasidic home), so I don't even know how to do any of those things with my children.
Well, people do them in all different ways, but the classic Tooth Fairy is the easiest of all. The child just puts their tooth under their pillow, and after they fall asleep, mom or dad slips in, reaches under and removes the tooth to replace it with a coin. When I was a kid, the usual coin was a quarter. These days, I think most kids around here get a "loonie" (Canadian one dollar coin).
post #55 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by benj View Post
of course, i don't want my kids being the ones to ruin it for all the other kids in school.
Me either. If other kids really believe it, I am not the one to burst their bubble, nor do I want my kids to do that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
Well, people do them in all different ways, but the classic Tooth Fairy is the easiest of all. The child just puts their tooth under their pillow, and after they fall asleep, mom or dad slips in, reaches under and removes the tooth to replace it with a coin. When I was a kid, the usual coin was a quarter. These days, I think most kids around here get a "loonie" (Canadian one dollar coin).
We did that but it was in a glass of water next to the bed. I think Mom was worried that little tooth would get lost if put under my pillow.

ETA: I think she even called herself my tooth fairy! I thought it was wonderful!
post #56 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whistler View Post
We did that but it was in a glass of water next to the bed. I think Mom was worried that little tooth would get lost if put under my pillow.
I can understand that. I spent several minutes finding one of ds1's teeth one night. He'd put it in the middle, then rolled to the near side of the bed. I had to wiggle my hand around under his head to get to it.

I also did the bad, bad thing once...the "Tooth Fairy" forgot. I fell asleep on the couch, and forgot to do the coin when I woke up. My ex and I told ds1 that the Tooth Fairy must have had a lot of teeth to do that night, and to try again. I was so glad that worked.
post #57 of 121
I don't lie to my child either. I played along with my child's ideas that about his invisible pets, that our bed was a boat in the sea, and so on. I want my child to believe in things unseen, like love.

How do you handle this?
As cultural holidays, not religious.

What is your reason for doing it or not?To validate my son's innate desire to believe in magic and things beyond the rational world.

How is going so far?He has wonderful memories and loves to help keep the stories alive for little friends and relatives.

How old are your kids?
17 years old

What did your parents do?
Same.

How did that affect your choices?
I made the same choice.
post #58 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
Well, people do them in all different ways, but the classic Tooth Fairy is the easiest of all. The child just puts their tooth under their pillow, and after they fall asleep, mom or dad slips in, reaches under and removes the tooth to replace it with a coin. When I was a kid, the usual coin was a quarter. These days, I think most kids around here get a "loonie" (Canadian one dollar coin).
Oh, I know the basic concept ...I was kind of referring to the getting excited/making it fun thing.
post #59 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by benj View Post
Oh, I know the basic concept ...I was kind of referring to the getting excited/making it fun thing.
You know...I never really did that, and I don't remember my parents doing it, either. We just told our kids that if they put the tooth under the pillow, the Tooth Fairy would come and take it, and give them a coin. IME, the kids tend to run with it (imagining how the TF gets in, what she looks like, etc.)...but most parents I've met don't really do much to make it fun/exciting.
post #60 of 121
I was very angry when I found out that Santa wasn't real. I definitely felt lied to. I was also very upset when I learned about negative numbers. I'd always been taught that you couldn't subtract 4 from 3. How often did teachers say, "you'll learn more about that next year." Why not say that about 3-4??

My mom just wasn't a great parent, and did not treat me with very much respect, which I think magnified my feelings about these lies.

We plan to teach our children about Santa, but I don't want to make a big deal. I think Santa will just fill the stocking with cheap gifts. After all, if Santa is magical, why can't he bring the kids an expensive toy that is out of the parents' budget? My husband says he wants credit for the expensive gifts!
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