So here I am again

[FatherTryingToHelp]

Ug, thought things had gotten better and things were okay, but... things get better, and then back to worse again.

To recap, about three months ago I had posted some stuff on here, my wife had had insomnia pretty much since our son was born (13 months ago now) at the time she was just really beginning to feel utterly crazy, she had been on some anti-depressants (despite repeatedly telling the doctor she wasn't feeling at all depressed).

We did go to see a psychiatrist and she prescribed some very different medicine based on what my wife was telling her, and it seemed to help, not as much as we'd hoped, but it did seem to help, well here we are three months later and the "help" seems to be waring off, she can't sleep very well, most nights at most she gets 3-4 hours of sleep, she worries about our son anytime he gets the slightest cough or cold (and yesterday was really bad since he threw up four times). She's tried hot baths, nice soothing cup of tea, warm cup of milk, no laptop, no TV, not going to bed until she's tired, and yet none of it really seems to have a lasting impact, every time I think "finally, she seems to be sleeping well" the next night she'll get two hours sleep and be back with the waking dead.

Any advice? I have no idea what to even suggest next, and of course the whole thing is a catch 22, the more she worries about sleep, the less likely she is to sleep, the more anxious she becomes about it (cycle down and down), even when it's good it's so precarious that one night of bad sleep starts the downward cycle again

[mom0810]

What is she taking? Is she in therapy? She needs to be in therapy, asap. Insomnia is one of the biggest symptoms of depression, and so is anxiety. She need professional help. Soon.

[Autumn Breeze]

has she tried taking melatonin? I really feel for both of you, it's hard enough to be a mom, harder to be a mom with no sleep! And it's really hard to watch someone you love struggle with poor sleep quality/quantity.

[Om Girl]

I give you so much credit for coming here for support and information to help your partner.
It's hard to be a mama suffering and it's even harder to be a partner watching her suffer. You're being very proactive and supportive and that's great!
She may need a different medication. Not everyone responds to medications the same way and insomnia can be a side effect of some anti-depressants. See about getting another appointment with the psychiatrist. Another possibility could be that the dose of her medications isn't right yet. Many times it takes a couple of months to get the correct dose.

[FatherTryingToHelp]

She has been/is taking Seroquil, while it seemed to work somewhat, the psychiatrist is also recommending that she stop taking it soon (and is saying that it's probably not helping her sleep any anymore anyway, sounds like she believes it's done what she wanted it to do, and the "thing" that it was being used to fix has been fixed).

Not taking anything else right now, might suggest Melatonin, see what happens, but always tricky, she hates taking meds in general. Thanks for all the support, I think it's actually harder to be one of two parents when, for whatever reason, one of them isn't coping properly than it is to be a single parent, at least when you are a single parent you don't have anyone else that you're hoping might help.

Not helping right now that the little guy has been puking for the last two days!

[mom0810]

I am not sure what class of medicine Seroquel is, but do NOT have her take Melotonin, or any other supplement, while taking psychiatric meds. That can be really dangerous.

I don't understand why she is not on a typical ssri, like zoloft. I am thinking that would help every situation much better. Is she seeing a therapist besides the psychiatrist? Please go and check out www.postpartum.net and see if there is someone in your area. "depression" does not mean "sad" necessarily. Low serotonin can cause sleep problems, eating problems, anxiety, hyperactivity, obsessive compulsive behavior... and all these fall under the comorbidity of depression.

She really needs more help than she is getting. Therapy is key, with someone who KNOWS and RECOGNIZES PPD. And that does not include all psychiatrists or therapists. Its a specialized field. Keep looking.

[marge234]

Originally Posted by mom0810

She really needs more help than she is getting. Therapy is key, with someone who KNOWS and RECOGNIZES PPD. And that does not include all psychiatrists or therapists. Its a specialized field. Keep looking.

I agree, with PPD it makes sense to err on the side of intervention.

I haven't read this book--Dooce is an internet celebrity who writes about everything, including PPD. Her sensibility is too crude for a lot of people but the candor might be helpful. I mention it because her husband played a major role in getting her help.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/141...SIN=1416936017

[mom0810]

Just looked up Seroquel and it looks like it's for Bi Polar disorder. Is your wife BiPolar? Or does she have PPD? If she is not BiPolar, then that medicine is THE WRONG MEDICINE FOR HER!!!

I would really advise going to a new psychiatrist. Soon. Like Asap.

She needs to see someone who specializes in PPD. There are stories on MDC about women who went to the wrong kind of doctor, who did not recognize PPD, and got all messed up on the wrong meds. The right meds are KEY to recovery. Please go to www.postpartum.net and find someone in your area who has chosen perinatal disorders as their concentration. It's so vital to getting good help.

[Autumn Breeze]

Yes, seroquel is NOT for PPD. I was prescribed it for bi-polar, something like Lexapro, Zoloft, Wellbutrin is what she needs. Definitely get a new doctor NOW.

[rclaz]

What about hiring a baby nurse, or post partum doula. They offer overnights as well. It's not cheap, but you have to ask if you can afford not to try SOMETHING else. What it might do is give her the reassurance that another pair of eyes and an experienced person is watching out for your little one. Especially if this person is on "night duty." Then perhaps it'll give your wife some comfort...and maybe during the day it'll give her just that extra added bit to relax a bit in general? I'd suggest that if she's not seeing someone regularly, she should be. I had insomnia as well. One thing that helped me was to forget about sleeping, and just focus on resting and relaxing my body. It took a while, but the sleep eventually came. The more I practiced relaxation, the more I truly did relax in general. It was NOT easy. Make sure her diet is top notch, and she's exercising and doing yoga or a stretch routine if possible. It's all good stuff for her body right now!

[FatherTryingToHelp]

My understanding was, that Seroquel could be used for other things too, just it's main use was bipolar, but we'll see over the next few days, I had tried the Postpartum.net site before, but was getting 0 response from any of the regional co-ordinators for Northern California so had assumed it was a site full of dead links and e-mail addresses, will try again.

While the idea of a night nurse is fine, in practice it's not that useful, our house is too small for it to be much use, and most nights (other than when he's throwing up) he sleeps from 8pm until around 6-6:30am anyway, so really not a problem. If we really thought it would help we can send him to Grandma's house (she lives just up the road) but the problem is as soon as someone else starts looking after him, no matter who it is (even me taking more of the work of it) she starts feeling guilty that she's not a good mother, yeap, another hurdle!

She is seeing someone regularly, and we THOUGHT it was helping, but apparently not. Diet is good, I am getting her doing more exercise (despite her reluctance and general hate of exercise). When we first starting seeing the psychiatrist we had discussed it being PPD, but she was pretty sure that, at this point at least, it wasn't, unfortunately some of this also gets obscured by my wife not telling the whole truth sometimes (at least not to me, and I assume not to the Psychiatrist either) she'll have a bad week, but assume it's her period causing it so not say anything, or a bad week because our son isn't sleeping, but assume it's because he's waking up all the time (etc etc).

[LVale]

Hold on there, she is taking Seroquel? That is not an anti-depresseant [sp?] drug. It's main use is an anti-psychotic used for bi-polar, and schzophrenia. It basically rewires the brain chemistry. It is a major league heavy duty drug, that needs to be closely watched by a doctor at all times! My son is 31 and uses it for both conditions, and it can have severe side effects until the right dosage can be acheived. It is not a drug that can be easily weaned from. Bi-polar is a permanent non curable brain disorder, while ppd is usually short-term. My son will more then likely have to be medicated with Seroquel for the rest of his life, just to be able to function. Your wife's doctor should have started her on zoloft, a true antidepressent. I would run from that psych. as fast as you can. Make sure that she gets help to properly wean from the Seroquel, do not go cold turkey. Then hopefully she can get on the right meds for her ppd. Good luck! Excuse the spelling in a hurry.

[Om Girl]

It sounds, from what you've described, to be a case of PPD. A lot of moms struggle with PPD and it's un-diagnosed or mis-diagnosed due to their reluctance to tell the whole story to their therapist. Therapists aren't there to judge, but moms oftentimes feel they are or feel that the therapist will feel they're a bad mom, which they won't. They do however need the WHOLE story of everything going on with mom in order to correctly diagnose and prescribe the right medication.
A lot of times there's a deficiency of B vitamins that cause extended PPD issues (B vitamins are leached from the body by birth control pills and the experience of pregnancy) some women are Vit B deficient after pregnancy even with prenatal vitamin supplementation.
If your wife is talking with someone, I'd highly recommend that you BOTH visit with the therapist at the same time so that you can gauge if the therapist is really understanding the depth of your DW experience.
It may be that she doesn't have an appropriate therapist or that she's telling them what she thinks they want to hear and hiding the full truth from them.
(I speak from experience, I was diagnosed with PPD after hiding my symptoms from all friends/family/therapist and finally received an appropriate diagnosis and medication. I was on Zoloft for a short period of time and weaned under medical supervision and then stated a diet/supplement reigmen. I had no relapse with PPD after my second pregnancy) I understand your wife's reluctance to take medication, many moms, myself included don't want to take a medication. However, it is often the only way to help recover from PPD.

I hope you find her the help that she and you need so that she can get better.

[mom0810]

Dad, please buy and read Beyond the Blues. It's got a section in there for partners, and it's a really short, easy, cheap read. It will really help you. There is a section in there for resources, too.

www.postpartum.net is a great site. If you don't get a response from people close to you, look elsewhere in the state. Someone in another part of the state can give you a reference to someone in your area.

I have the email addy of someone in my area (IL) that you can contact for a contact in Cali.

It really sounds like she was put on the WRONG medicine either because the pdoc doesn't know what they are doing (can't recognize PPD) or your wife was dishonest about what she is feeling. Seroquel is NOT a first line medication. Something light like zoloft would have made more sense.

Get the right kind of help and make sure she does not take anything else while taking the Seroquel... no supplements or anything. Get her off of that (WEAN SLOOOOWLY AND UNDER A DOCTOR"S CARE).

[Autumn Breeze]

Originally Posted by FatherTryingToHelp

While the idea of a night nurse is fine, in practice it's not that useful, our house is too small for it to be much use, and most nights (other than when he's throwing up) he sleeps from 8pm until around 6-6:30am anyway, so really not a problem. If we really thought it would help we can send him to Grandma's house (she lives just up the road) but the problem is as soon as someone else starts looking after him, no matter who it is (even me taking more of the work of it) she starts feeling guilty that she's not a good mother, yeap, another hurdle!

This is pretty normal, I mean, my kids are almost 8 and 4, and I still have that guilty feeling of not being with them. Though I am still able to sleep/function while they are in someone else's care. Right now, perhaps being apart isn't what she needs, but it's to be together with her child, getting to know him with no expectations from anyone, herself included.

[darcytrue]

Is the insomnia still being caused by ppd you think? If it's just depression then I'd suggest she find someone to talk to and maybe explore supplements, herbs, change her diet.

My DH has struggled with insomnia for many years. He rarely sleeps more than 5-6 hours per night and that's usually choppy sleep most nights. I don't know how he does it. He can't take any type of drugs to help with sleep because they make him feel bad the next day. I know my DH doesn't suffer from depression because he is a happier person than I am and handles things much better than I do in life, and I've dealt with depression off and on for many years but never had insomnia. In fact, with depression, I've always had trouble with wanting to lay around and sleep TOO much.

[MsNature]

Originally Posted by darcytrue

In fact, with depression, I've always had trouble with wanting to lay around and sleep TOO much.

DarcyTrue: Sounds like you may have an underactive thyroid. (A condition that is often missed in routine blood work, unless you ask for more definitive testing.) You may want to visit the ithyroid site for more info and see if the condition "fits" your symptoms. Sorry, I don't have the link off hand, but I believe a simple google would find it for you.

BTW FatherTrying - Was thinking last night after I logged off, actually Brewer's Yeast has a fair amount of copper in it as well.

[estercita]

Seroquel can be prescribed in low doses for sleep. I've met several moms on-line who've taken it for insomnia. A psychiatric nurse suggested that I take it, but I switched to a psychiatrist who prescribed Remeron instead and that has been helping me sleep.

FatherTryingToHelp, FWIW, you can read more about my insomnia saga in the thread on insomnia & breastfeeding. I think it's on the next page of posts. My heart goes out to your wife. I'm definitely getting better, but not there yet. The two of you are not alone!

[SunShineSally]

Originally Posted by estercita

Seroquel can be prescribed in low doses for sleep. I've met several moms on-line who've taken it for insomnia. A psychiatric nurse suggested that I take it, but I switched to a psychiatrist who prescribed Remeron instead and that has been helping me sleep.

Remeron is wonderful I took it while it was in it's trial phase and was on it for years until I became pregnant with Ds. It is wonderful for my BPD and was amazing for sleep!

Dad I am so sorry your wife is not getting the help she needs and deserves! I would have her switch I know what it feels like to not be on the proper medication and it is horrible. I have had depression most of my life and yes you cannot sleep with it or you can be so tired that nothing works it can go both ways. I hope you two find a wonderful doctor who can help they are so hard to find I also hope you LO is feeling better

[FatherTryingToHelp]

The update, where to begin...

I did finally get some contact from someone off the postpartum.net, they gave me the names of a few therapists in the area, which at least one of which I'd found myself already. My wife did goto see her, but didn't feel it helped much, but she does have another appointment next week. The therapist did seem to think that Seroquel was a good medicine for my wife to have started on, whether she'd have recommended something else I don't know. Her psychiatrist does seem to "get her" my wife often says she can't articulate how she's feeling exactly, but when the psychiatrist describes how she thinks it is she's right, so she seems to know what's going on, whether that really means anything on not.. no idea.

In theory my wife is now coming off the seroquel (apparently it was never the long-term plan anyway) however, at 75mg she seems to be getting back some of the old symptoms, not the "can't stop thinking" feeling she had back in feb, but a restless energy, feeling sad/hopeless al the time, feeling like she's never going to get better. Last night was probably the scariest since she was feeling "claustraphobic" and left the house (while I was comforting the baby), I caught upto her in the car outside our house, but honestly, I was terrified that she was going to drive the car and do something stupid (like drive into something). She's talking a lot of suicide, and how she can't go on living like this and she'd rather just be dead. She felt really bad right until she took the seroquel, that seemed to calm her down quite a lot and she felt better, although she didn't feel like she slept that well (had to take an Ambien).

In theory I know her doctor was looking at possibly some sort of anti-convulsive that also had a good effect on depression, but I just don't know, while I want to say the Zoloft never helps, I honestly think the doses she's had have always been so small that they wouldn't help, she worries all the time that she's going to end up like Keith Ledger, or MJ, or any of these other famous people who commit suicide after being on a lot of perscription meds.

I'm not sure what to do, she's called her doctor to have a talk, so at some point her doctor will call her back (just when we're not sure) and that doesn't help in the evenings (which always seems to be the worst time). I'm also beginning to wonder if I shouldn't make more preparations in case she does commit suicide, it almost seems like it's going to happen at this point and that's starting to scare me too.