Unconditional Parenting support thread - Page 6

[catters]

I'm reading this book now and giving my DH the "abridged" version of it as I get through parts.
So much of it makes sense, but I am, like an early poster said, down with the philosophical aspect of it, but implementing the practices of it is a lot harder. I was definitely not raised UP so my natural tendencies tend to be frustration followed by anger when I run into constant challenges from DS. Who, by the way, is not two until next month, so gee, don't I feel like a crap parent already. Anyway, I'll be reading this thread over and over again.

[JolieC]

Oh I'm so thrilled to find this thread! I am almost finished UP and it resonates so deeply with me, but at the same time I am having such a hard time puting things into practice with our newly 3 year old twins. WE're in the midst of a bunch of upheaval and things are fairly stressful too (we are moving *home* to NZ after 2 years expatting overseas in trying situations, temporary accommodation, 99% of our stuff in a container somewhere on the surface of the Indian Ocean, mama and Daddy a bit stressed out from it all and trying to get everything sorted and on and on) so that does not help matters, nor does my being tired and rundown. But at the end of the day, Cole and Imogen are more in need of my UP now than ever, and I need ot focus on ways to make that happen. Thank you thank you thank you for giving me some lightbulb moments ...about how the important thing is the *relationship*, my attitude, my fear of how I am perceived by others, esp my mother (who's not exactly known for holding back on her opinions. Or tolerance for anything other than trad, strict parenting), and making sure we *all* get our love cup filled.
Oh yay, just these 5 pages have really invigorated me...even if I did have to stay up till 1am on this crappy connection to get it. Oh so totally worth it!!!

[Devaya]

Originally Posted by catters

I'm reading this book now and giving my DH the "abridged" version of it as I get through parts.
So much of it makes sense, but I am, like an early poster said, down with the philosophical aspect of it, but implementing the practices of it is a lot harder. I was definitely not raised UP so my natural tendencies tend to be frustration followed by anger when I run into constant challenges from DS. Who, by the way, is not two until next month, so gee, don't I feel like a crap parent already. Anyway, I'll be reading this thread over and over again.

Don't beat yourself up! My LO is only 21 1/2 months and I've totally been feeling like a crap parent lately. I think though that this stage can be as hard as any other, particularly because the LO's understanding and verbal communication is not that great yet, so they can have ways of expressing their needs that are challenging for parents. Reading your post made me realise that trying to UP when you've not been raised UP (ie prob most of us!) really necessitates a drastic re-wiring of one's synapses and is not for the faint-hearted. I think we need to appreciate ourselves for making the effort, even though so often (for me at least) it's an ideal rather than a reality in every moment.

I'm still really struggling with finding the 'gap' between what happens, and responding (reacting, really!) to it. I feel frustrated with myself for this. Lately DS has been waking up at about 2 am and then not settling properly for up to 2 hours. We co-sleep and I'm often frozen in uncomfortable position for ages, unable to go back to sleep, only to have him move again and it all starts all over. I'll be patient for about an hour and then I start to lose it a bit. It's so hard in the middle of the night!

[russianthistle]

I'm curious to know what others do for a flailing three year old who's melting down because he's tired...but also going about the house, kicking and screaming and throwing ANYTHING in his path...we had one of those meltdowns last night...and I fared well for a bit...at least made it through the tantrum part, but then lost it when he wouldn't go to sleep after two hours...two hours...

The two hours included nursing for a bit...then reading stories, then lying quietly, then...then he was thirsty, then needed his daddy, then.....you get the picture.

We have a new baby, and I'm sure that that is, essentially, where some of this comes from...but how do I escape the "if, then" kind of crap that seems to automatically fly out of my mouth when I get trapped in situations like these?

[ShadowMom]

Originally Posted by russianthistle

I'm curious to know what others do for a flailing three year old who's melting down because he's tired...but also going about the house, kicking and screaming and throwing ANYTHING in his path...we had one of those meltdowns last night...and I fared well for a bit...at least made it through the tantrum part, but then lost it when he wouldn't go to sleep after two hours...two hours...

The two hours included nursing for a bit...then reading stories, then lying quietly, then...then he was thirsty, then needed his daddy, then.....you get the picture.

We have a new baby, and I'm sure that that is, essentially, where some of this comes from...but how do I escape the "if, then" kind of crap that seems to automatically fly out of my mouth when I get trapped in situations like these?

In that kind of situation I think you look at the fact that he's tired, he's not in control of his actions, and he is feeling bad inside (whether from tiredness, the new baby, etc.) which is making him act bad on the outside.

That said, after that sort of evening, any parent is not going to be at their best. You just do the best you can to get through things and then afterward, when you've had some sleep then it's maybe a good time to think about what caused it, what he might need to help him avoid it in the future, etc.

When my DS was that age, he had several evening meltdowns and as a single parent, I just did my best to get through them. The "if, then" wouldn't have helped anyway. I think that is just a habit. Maybe you can talk about his feelings... "You feel bad right now. You're really mad! You wanted daddy to come in here. You need daddy right now. You need some attention right now." etc.

That is something that did not help me right away, but once I got the hang of it (talking about feelings) has really done a lot to defuse his anger, to know that I understand what he's feeling and have it echoed to him.

HTH, mama. There used to be a large community of parents here who were more the unconditional parenting sorts, and they seem to have dwindled down quite a bit. I miss that, it's where I got all of my ideas from!

[russianthistle]

Thank you, Shadow.
This is what I try to do...but, like many, I tend to lose patience.

I'm working on teaching him to breathe deep...and perhaps a better time to work on this is not during the tantrum (or shortly thereafter), but, rather, in the midst of a fine beautiful day. I think we're going to start some yogic activity or at least stretching and breathing.

I really struggle with my UP language. This is what I find most challenging.

[smeisnotapirate]

Originally Posted by russianthistle

I really struggle with my UP language. This is what I find most challenging.

[momofmine]

yes, I feel like it has taken me years to re-wire my own programming too. Still working on it in fact. But like a PP said, that "if, then" stuff rarely works anyway. I tried it with DS1 and it just escalated things.

I have found that even at 3 and younger, the validating stuff mentioned above does help. I remember one time my child was actually only 2, and we had been somewhere as a family, but my DH had driven separately, having just come from work. When we left, I took the kids with me and DH drove in his car. We were all going home. We started driving and DS started crying and having a bit of a tantrum, and I didn't know what was up. He wasn't too verbal at that point yet, and I just guessed and said, Did you want to ride with Daddy? And I just validated, "oh you really wanted to ride with Daddy didn't you" etc. And he settled down immediately, but started right back up again several minutes later. I repeated the same thing, he settled, went through that cycle about 4 times on the ride home, but each wave was less intense than the first. It was amazing to see how he reacted to just feeling heard and acknowledged. I don't think it works as well with my other ds, he seems to escalate his feeling sometimes when I try validating.

[russianthistle]

Yes, my son seems to escalate, tantrum-wise, when I validate...or it doesn't seem to make a difference. I still do it while working to sort through what the problem is. I think that the validation is important, even if I don't always get the "right" results.

[mckennasmomma]

interestingly i am now reading "raising our children raising ourselves" and right in the first chapter she talks about validating, how important it is, AND how it can often escalate things at first but ultimately leads to better outcomes.

[madsommer]

I'm about a third of the way through the book and love it. It totally resonates with me and it reminded of all those things that I had to discover on my own through 5 years of therapy

Now I'm trying really hard to implement, but it's hard not to revert to the tactics that my parents' used. I find myself cringing and apologizing a lot more now. And being tired and pregnant doesn't help me much with dealing with the tantrums of my 18mo old.

Originally Posted by krystyn33

Another thing I'll add is that the social pressure to actively "discipline" (control) children can be strong during the toddler years, since we deal with many socially unacceptable behaviors like hitting, not sharing, etc.

Yes! This!

Originally Posted by krystyn33

Also, I find living up to my parenting ideals is hard when I'm PMSing or run down (and sleep deprived for sure). Caring for ourselves so that we can care for others can be such a challenge!

This has been my challenge lately. I'm in my 3rd trimester now and the fatigue is really getting to me and I realize how badly it affects my ability to deal with issues.

[rajouta]

I just started UP, subbing.

[Devaya]

Validating during a tantrum (and there've been several a day, lately!) has been helping me, at least some of the time it seems that DS registers that I'm letting him have his emotions, and he will even pause briefly before the next onslaught. At least it's helping ME to feel I have something to 'do' rather than swing into being fearful/angry/despairing, and either walking away or being a bit harsh in my tone.

I could relate to the evening you described, russianthistle, with tantrum followed by bedtime taking 2 hours...my whole past week has been like that...and I really do feel as if I deserve a medal by the end of it if I've kept my cool...I just keep trying to let go of expectations, and accept what's happening, even if it's maddening...and for me in particular, I've found letting go of a set expectation for what I'll achieve in the evening, is the only way to survive. I was getting stressed out b/c I thought I'd do all these things, and then it would be practically MY bedtime by the time he was finally settled. One night he even went to bed at 11pm! !

anyway,I have written out the 13 principles of UP and put them on the fridge, and that will hopefully help remind us on a day to day basis. My partner (who I'm currently planning to separate from, but still want to co-parent with) was reading it through today and asking me for clarification on points. SO much more effective than getting him to read the book,although that's also on his bedside table... you never know!

[madsommer]

Anyone have any suggestions for child who keeps throwing food on the floor? For awhile I tried to make DS eat all of his meals and snacks at the table...but now he's not so keen on it. So I let him down when he asks, and sometimes I'll let him take his plate or bowl of food to another part of the house. The problem is that then he dumps it all over the floor in play. Sometimes he'll eat it off the floor and sometimes it just stays there. Our apartment is wall-to-wall carpet so it's getting quiet messy.

I've actually done pretty well with not getting so angry any more, but I do keep falling into the trap of taking the food away. It's very frustrating and I'm not sure how to deal with it.

[simplify4balance]

UP: My kids seem to walk all over me!

I completely agree with the UP ideas... but in practice, it seems that I just have ended up with kids who won't do anything I ask of them.
I think I should be able to ask DD (29 months) to "come over here, please" and she should comply.
I am not a control freak- I just think that she is old enough to respond reasonably to simple, reasonable requests, right?

She chooses not to comply to any request... and I feel left out of control and I hate it. I can't stand engaging in "If you don't come here... I will do X to you." so that type of parenting doesn't work... it just escalates into bigger and uglier consequences... Ultimately I have to threaten to spank, and occasionally follow through. Later... I always feel depressed and out of control.
Sad Mamma.

[krystyn33]

Originally Posted by simplify4balance

I think I should be able to ask DD (29 months) to "come over here, please" and she should comply.

Honestly, I think we'd all be happier in this world if we could abandon the word "should."

At 31 months DS doesn't always come to me or follow simple requests when asked. Engaging cooperation from him often takes more effort. Developmentally he's not quite ready to be considerate in the sense of truly understanding & caring about other people's perspectives & feelings. He's working on it--it is one of the major tasks of this age.

Coercive punishment/reward strategies will give you the sense of control that you expressed that you feel is lacking. But the motivation behind the compliant behavior is external and limited. Children will do what they want when not in your presence or when they think they can get away with it when these measures are relied upon to "manage" their behavior. Internal motivation takes more time and really isn't fully under our parental control. We plant seeds, model and communicate our feelings and needs and have to trust that when our children are able to "get it" they will.

[bronxmom]

I'm so glad to see this thread and hope it keeps going. I'm just finishing re-reading this book and have found it so helpful and re-grounding. I have a 10 year old and life with her has been more challenging in the last year. She switched schools and was pretty miserable. That, combined I think with developmental stuff, has made things more difficult. She was/is having trouble sleeping and I would spend literally hours each night trying to get her to bed. The level of frustration/screaming picked up in our house and her relationship with my partner (her step-dad) began to deteriorate. I began to question my previous parenting up to this point - had I not set enough limits? was co-sleeping so long part of the problem? etc This combined with just the exhaustion of trying to deal with a growing but unhappy child began to make me impatient and to strain our relationship. I literally think I became more frustrated and even emotionally harsh at times that really scared and hurt her. In the past week I think I've really re-routed and connected with the kind of parent I want to be - and I do think our relationship is much stronger again.

Here are my biggest issues:
1) Can a step-parent parent unconditionally? My partner and I agree on a lot and he really loves my daughter. We've been together 6 years. But he acts in conditional ways SO much without even realizing it. He and she are locked in battle and it's really discouraging - and he's really of the "kids need limits" style of thinking. Not punitive at all and less controlling than a lot of parents I know - but still not in line with me. And because he's not her biological parent I think he needs to work harder to gain her trust; but it's harder because she does not have the same base relationship with him that she has with me. We are in stepfamily counseling and have our first appt in like 6 weeks this week so I'm going to raise it there. But trying to figure it out. In particular, I think the stuff about parents presenting a united front is an issue; I def don't do it and I hate the idea of backing him up when i think he's being unreasonable. But it def leads to arguments.

2) One of the key points of the book is the importance of modeling and helping our kids think about how others are affected by our actions and to do things for intrinsic rather than extrinsic reasons. I'm finding this very difficult. I realize that I often am focused on whether people appreciate the things I do; or myself wanting acknowledgment/praise rather than being secure myself in things; or being conditional in my love for others; or expressing frustration with other people and not being generous. In other words, I think I'm not modelling for my daughter what I want her to become. I'm thinking I really need to focus on my own actions.

These are just some of my initial thoughts. I'm really excited and want to hear more from people. Especially curious if there are other parents of older children out there. I feel like I handled the toddler/preschool years great and was pretty confident and empathetic and we really avoided a lot of power battles. But now that she's older and "should" be able to control herself more, be more considerate, etc, I'm finding it harder. It's also harder to know what's developmentally appropriate and what's not at this age - there's so little written on these years.

[MarineWife]

I'm just joining. I don't have time to go back and read all the previous posts so please excuse me if I drag old stuff back up. I'll try to read from here on out for a while before I say much so I can get the gist of what's going on here.

[smeisnotapirate]

Originally Posted by simplify4balance

I completely agree with the UP ideas... but in practice, it seems that I just have ended up with kids who won't do anything I ask of them.
I think I should be able to ask DD (29 months) to "come over here, please" and she should comply.
I am not a control freak- I just think that she is old enough to respond reasonably to simple, reasonable requests, right?

She chooses not to comply to any request... and I feel left out of control and I hate it. I can't stand engaging in "If you don't come here... I will do X to you." so that type of parenting doesn't work... it just escalates into bigger and uglier consequences... Ultimately I have to threaten to spank, and occasionally follow through. Later... I always feel depressed and out of control.
Sad Mamma.

Disclaimer: I only have a 14 m/o, so I still have a LONG way on my parenting journey.

I try to be very unconditional with my son and with my students (I teach 2yo-16yo music), though, and I've found that what works best is redefining "reasonable" and "simple" and "control."

When I feel out of control over something, it's because I think that what I need (and am not getting) is more important than what the other (son, student) wants. Oftentimes, I feel like I need it NOW, too. Which makes things worse.

Here's an example. DS is walking and loves walking to the car with me. He points out all the weeds in the sidewalk, picks up little pebbles, touches the flowers as he passes by - and meanwhile, I'm telling him to come on and FREAKING OUT because if he doesn't move it, I'm going to be late for my lessons. So I grab him (screaming, of course) and go to the car - my lessons are more important than his flower-picking, right?

So here's where I start to think - what's the real problem here? The REAL problem is that I'm not giving us enough time to get to the car - where both DS and I can get there happy and uncoerced (is that a word? ). If I started out just 5 minutes earlier, DS can go rock collecting and flower-touching and neither of us will be upset (or more importantly, to me, LATE).

It's really taken me looking at the reasons why I am getting upset over things, but I've gotten much more unconditional because of it. Now, if it's safety - that's a nonnegotiable. Car seats (which DS HATES) are nonnegotiable. Holding hands or being carried across the street is nonnegotiable. Most everything else can be worked around so that I don't feel "out of control" and he doesn't feel slighted or coerced.

So let's turn it around. DD comes to you and says "mommy, come here." Do you drop everything every time she says that? Most likely, you don't. You might finish what you're doing, say "just a second," or what have you. Why is it that she should be expected to come when you call, but you don't have to abide by the same rules? Not a perfect example, of course, but maybe with the example you gave of her not coming when you call her - maybe she is seeing you doing the same through modeling, or maybe she is using her judgement that finishing what she is doing is more important than coming to you right when you call her.

Also, remember that your child is a different person. It sounds silly, but do you feel like you have control over your DP? If that sounds strange, then maybe it should be strange for you to want control over your DD. If your DP can choose to come when you ask - then maybe your DD can as well. As long as it's done respectfully. Because respect (in my mind) is what this whole unconditional parenting thing is about.

[apple_juice]

Hi lovely mamas and papas

I am in the middle of UP and I am wanting to join you here. I have a 19 month old son and I am expecting in March. I am having a little difficulty implementing UP in our lives and hope to learn from you. I live in an area where punitive discipline is the norm and am having a lot of trouble going to playgroups lately where kids are being harshly parented (against the rule of the centre). Anyway I was wondering if I could get some tips on a few situations I have.

My son has taken to kicking while being changed and he thinks it is funny. I tried saying OW! That hurts biut he laughs more. I am only concerned about stopping this quickly because I am pregnant and he frequently gets me in the belly and kicks quite hard and I am worried about him hurting me or the baby. he never kicks my DH when he changes him.

I am also wondering how to implement UP in situations where he needs to stop doing something. He needs to stop hurting our dog. He has taken to pinching her ears really hard until she cries. She loves him and lets himget away with a lot and I never realise he is hurting her until she cries. Today I caught him pinching her ears and she was in obvious painbut didnt cry.

Any other young toddler strategies would be helpful too.