or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Pregnancy and Birth › Birth and Beyond › What if you knew something nobody else seemed to know?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

What if you knew something nobody else seemed to know? - Page 3

post #41 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belle View Post
What an awful thing to do to an expectant mother. Ugh. I just don't get people. Why would someone do this?
Because they were trying to convince me to ignore my insticts and medical advice and have a vbac. Apparently a mother's insticts should only be followed if it is leading you towards a natural birth. I know they were trying to be helpful, but e-mailing someone who is planning on a c-section a list of all the reasons to not have a c-section is just rude.
post #42 of 53
Without knowing the full particulars of the situation you refer to, I think this is too broad a comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by felix23 View Post
e-mailing someone who is planning on a c-section a list of all the reasons to not have a c-section is just rude.
Taking this comment at face value suggests it's rude to share information with someone simply because that information is contrary to what he/she already thinks.

Is it rude for someone who is convinced of the wonderful benefits (:Puke) of circumcision to share their information with me? The context of the method of delivery, the relationship between the parties, the previous communication, etc. could make it rude. The simple act of sharing information is not rude.
post #43 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Novella View Post
Without knowing the full particulars of the situation you refer to, I think this is too broad a comment:



Taking this comment at face value suggests it's rude to share information with someone simply because that information is contrary to what he/she already thinks.

Is it rude for someone who is convinced of the wonderful benefits (:Puke) of circumcision to share their information with me? The context of the method of delivery, the relationship between the parties, the previous communication, etc. could make it rude. The simple act of sharing information is not rude.
We aren't talking about circumsion, we are talking about a method of giving birth. It is insulting to even compare the two. Circumcision involves inflicting unbelievable amounts of pain on an innocent baby. If a woman has already done the research and has decided to go with a c-section, then IMO it is rude to send her information about how her choice is wrong. I spent my last pregnancy trying to surround myself with positive thoughts, and it was really upsetting to recieve pms from strangers telling me c-section horror stories and trying to convince me to vbac.
post #44 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix23 View Post
We aren't talking about circumsion, we are talking about a method of giving birth. It is insulting to even compare the two. Circumcision involves inflicting unbelievable amounts of pain on an innocent baby. If a woman has already done the research and has decided to go with a c-section, then IMO it is rude to send her information about how her choice is wrong. I spent my last pregnancy trying to surround myself with positive thoughts, and it was really upsetting to recieve pms from strangers telling me c-section horror stories and trying to convince me to vbac.
I dont agree that its rude- unless said in a nasty way. If someone has had a horror C-section experience, they were probably trying to help you avoid that. I would see that as coming from a place of kindness in trying to spare you what they went through. Again depends on the way they said it, but most people are just trying to help the best way they know how.

If I had an awful experience with a homebirth midwife and someone had said they had researched thought she was the best choice and were going to use her, I would definitely feel compelled to tell them all the stuff that had happened to me because of her just to warn them. I would feel awful if I didnt and then they came back with the same experience.
post #45 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan View Post
I dont agree that its rude- unless said in a nasty way. If someone has had a horror C-section experience, they were probably trying to help you avoid that. I would see that as coming from a place of kindness in trying to spare you what they went through. Again depends on the way they said it, but most people are just trying to help the best way they know how.

If I had an awful experience with a homebirth midwife and someone had said they had researched thought she was the best choice and were going to use her, I would definitely feel compelled to tell them all the stuff that had happened to me because of her just to warn them. I would feel awful if I didnt and then they came back with the same experience.
When you were planning your homebirth, would you have found it helpful if strangers sent you pms filled with hombirth/natural birth horror stories? Maybe I'm just super sensitive when I am pregnant, but a link to a blog about a mom who died the day after her c-section and who never even got to hold her baby was NOT helpful.
post #46 of 53
Quote:
When you were planning your homebirth, would you have found it helpful if strangers sent you pms filled with hombirth/natural birth horror stories? Maybe I'm just super sensitive when I am pregnant, but a link to a blog about a mom who died the day after her c-section and who never even got to hold her baby was NOT helpful.
That does not sound helpful at all. It sucks that people can be so thoughtless sometimes.
post #47 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix23 View Post
When you were planning your homebirth, would you have found it helpful if strangers sent you pms filled with hombirth/natural birth horror stories? Maybe I'm just super sensitive when I am pregnant, but a link to a blog about a mom who died the day after her c-section and who never even got to hold her baby was NOT helpful.
Yeah that is not very cool, I thought you meant they were sending you their personal stories. But I will say that I had to basically explain myself everytime I said I was having a homebirth. The *best* responses were "oh you're brave" (not really, I think its brave to go to a hospital ). And the others wanted me to justify myself. I got a lot of "what if something goes wrong?" "Homebirth is not safe" etc etc. And they werent just comments, they wanted me to answer, I guess to prove myself. I did the get the "I know a mom who died cause the baby came at home" etc.

So it can swing both ways I guess. But fear-mongering is not helpful at all, I agree! Personal stories I think are fine, but just trying to bully someone is not.
post #48 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by MegBoz View Post
Anyway, the problem comes when natural birth is seen as bizarre and, worst of all POINTLESS! When epidurals are viewed as having NO RISK and going natural is viewed as utterly senseless & stupid.

Women who decide in advance of any labor that they want an epidural... I have to wonder:
1. How truly educated are they on the risks of epidural & the risks of the cascade of interventions it often leads to?
But more so:
2. Have they opened their mind to the concept of a natural, empowering birth?

They must think that the concept of a natural birth that is painful, but is still wonderful & empowering is just impossible?? Why else would they not even TRY to experience it & ride the labor ride?

Seriously, I don't get it. I can't see any other reason BUT that they really think that natural birth 'makes as much sense as natural dentistry' - in other words - natural birth is STUPID & pointless & there is simply NO VALUE in feeling birth?

THAT is what I find so sad.
Exactly! Really struggled with that when my close friend decided way before pregnancy that she was getting an epidural and that's that. Obviously it was her choice - but, yeah, what you said ran through my head many many times and made me sad. Still does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by majormajor View Post
it's that childbirth can be estatic if you let go of EVERYTHING, all your preconceptions about birth, and just BE in that moment when your baby is born.
YES! So true. And what often saddens me about the mothers who want their epidurals at 8 months is the feeling I get from them that they don't want to experience their births at all, rather to tune them out as much as possible and get them over with in as little time as they can. It really has everything to do with attitude and very little to do with the actual way of giving birth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegBoz View Post
As for pushing, I thought mamas with epis could be raised up into a semi-reclining/ supported squat? That's how my sister pushed out both of hers with epis - not flat on her back.
Yes, they can. My friend who got the epidural was on her side/semi-reclining. They don't generally do the lithotomy thing here at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flapjack View Post
I hate the birth= sex analogy. It's not like sex. It's a rite of passage, an initiation, sheer hard work. It's NOT about getting on with someone else or intimacy because it's something that a woman has to get through as best she can. It's exhilarating, yes, and inherently joyful but to compare it to sex trivialises both.
Good point. I don't think childbirth is comparable to sex either - though I do think that, as "the other end of sex", it is sexual in nature.

I saw my mom give birth at home to my little brother, and yeah, she was in pain, but was that an issue? No, because she accepted the pain, worked through it, and it was just part of the experience of getting my brother out. Because of that, and having been raised around homebirth, epidural is not even an option for me. By which I mean not that I am ideologically against it (though I am for myself) but rather that it doesn't even cross my mind when I think of childbirth and I'm always mildly surprised to realize that all my friends take it as a given in childbirth.
I also think the intense fear and avoidance around childbirth pain has a lot to do with our culture's intense fear and avoidance of pain in general. Pain used to just be a part of life that you dealt with - not very nice maybe, but there, and not a huge deal. Now, the ibuprofen bottle is always waiting. Not to mention that daily life is a lot more comfortable than it used to be - people just aren't used to discomfort/pain. And pain is definitely seen as a Bad Thing, in and of itself. Of course pain can be useless and bad, in childbirth too, but in itself? No. I think it is there much of the time to get your attention, to help you focus, go inward. To deal with pain you certainly have to do that. (Of course, focusing and going inward is not something mainstream western culture promotes either.) When people simply reject all pain off the bat as a Bad Thing, without considering whether or not it is an integral part of life or an experience or whether or not it's really going to kill them (so to speak) it really limits existence. In my opinion.
Also, I am not at all judging people who take painkillers! Personal journey, personal choice. Heck, I take painkillers when I notice that the headache I have is not helpful pain. I am only trying to point out a general pattern in our society that I have noticed and that I believe contributes to the widespread refusal to acknowledge childbirth as anything but torture.
post #49 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan View Post
Yeah that is not very cool, I thought you meant they were sending you their personal stories. But I will say that I had to basically explain myself everytime I said I was having a homebirth. The *best* responses were "oh you're brave" (not really, I think its brave to go to a hospital ). And the others wanted me to justify myself. I got a lot of "what if something goes wrong?" "Homebirth is not safe" etc etc. And they werent just comments, they wanted me to answer, I guess to prove myself. I did the get the "I know a mom who died cause the baby came at home" etc.

So it can swing both ways I guess. But fear-mongering is not helpful at all, I agree! Personal stories I think are fine, but just trying to bully someone is not.
I don't believe that it is fine to send personal birth horror stories to people that you don't really know or who aren't asking for opinions. I know some people who have had some really, really bad homebirth and natural birth experiences, but I don't think it would right for me to pm every person I see who says they have decided on a homebirth or a natural birth these stories. Having a vbac is not an option for me, so recieving personal stories of c-sections gone bad was just depressing and didn't help at all.
post #50 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix23 View Post
I don't believe that it is fine to send personal birth horror stories to people that you don't really know or who aren't asking for opinions. I know some people who have had some really, really bad homebirth and natural birth experiences, but I don't think it would right for me to pm every person I see who says they have decided on a homebirth or a natural birth these stories. Having a vbac is not an option for me, so recieving personal stories of c-sections gone bad was just depressing and didn't help at all.
I meant 'personal' as in their OWN stories. I dont see a problem with that. You chose to post to tell people you didnt really know, that you were planning a C-section. Those people chose to write to you. If you didnt want strangers to know your decision you shouldnt have told them IMHO. If you had personally had a terrible homebirth, perhaps you'd feel more inclined to tell people your opinion on it when they told you they were planning one. I dont see the difference. People are (for the most part) trying to help. Otherwise they wouldnt have bothered taking the time to write to you. Perhaps some are misguided in their approach, or shouldnt really comment. But I doubt anyone who shared a personal story with you did it to purposefully hurt you. They more than likely didnt want you to go through the same thing and thought their warning would help.
post #51 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan View Post
I meant 'personal' as in their OWN stories. I dont see a problem with that. You chose to post to tell people you didnt really know, that you were planning a C-section. Those people chose to write to you. If you didnt want strangers to know your decision you shouldnt have told them IMHO.
Just because she shares her intentions doesn't mean she wants to hear horror stories. Likewise, I felt free to share my intentions of having a homebirth to everybody who would listen. Only one person told me what she thought was a horror story. (In truth it was a successful non-emergency transfer story with a happy ending.) Even so, when she planned her 3rd cesarean, I did not send her information on why she should not. She's a grown woman and can make decisions for herself. Just because its not the decision I would have made does not mean that I need to talk her out of it.
Quote:
If you had personally had a terrible homebirth, perhaps you'd feel more inclined to tell people your opinion on it when they told you they were planning one. I dont see the difference. People are (for the most part) trying to help. Otherwise they wouldnt have bothered taking the time to write to you. Perhaps some are misguided in their approach, or shouldnt really comment. But I doubt anyone who shared a personal story with you did it to purposefully hurt you. They more than likely didnt want you to go through the same thing and thought their warning would help.
They didn't share a personal story with her. They told her about a mom who died before even getting to hold her child. This is not constructive or helpful.

Again, we (as a society) can't seem to tell positive birth stories. Only horror stories.
post #52 of 53
I'm a big homebirth supporter. I love to hear about mamas choosing to homebirth.

But I think we sell mama instinct short when we assume that mama instinct only counts when it's telling her to stay out of the hospital. I think the kinds of things felix is talking about are horrible. If she seemed unaware that VBAC was possible, or looking for options, then I think it's fine to say "Hey, did you know you have options other than ERC?" And then she could say "Yeah, but I'm not a candidate/not interested/whatever" and that should be end of story. But horror stories are never cool in my book. I hate seeing posts when people are trying to have a good hospital birth and a ton of people pop in with their hospital horror stories and try to sway the person to a homebirth or UC no matter what the OP has said regarding that. I think people should be realistic. Hospital birth is not that same as homebirth and usually you do have to compromise at least a bit on your desires if you don't want to fight the whole time. But not every doctor and nurse is out to get you and I've attended some perfectly lovely, respectful hospital births, including my own transfer.

I know after my second birth I wanted to shout from the rooftops how amazing homebirth was and that everyone should have one. After two uncomplicated and exhilerating deliveries, I didn't have the same perspective I do having tons of pain and rare stuff occurring. I would still absolutely homebirth again in a heartbeat and encourage others to do so. But, I also have an entirely different experience of pain to draw from. The pain of my other two deliveries was bad, but managable. This pain was not at ALL managable. I can see if people's previous experiences include a labor like my last one was, they would say heck no am I going natural.

Also, last story...my best friend planned a homebirth with her first and developed preeclampsia and transferred for an induction. With her second, she planned a hospital birth. That is what she was comfortable with and what her instincts told her to do. We had many conversations where I did actively try to get her to think about homebirth again, or a birth center. Lo and behold late in her pregnancy she developed pre-e again and needed to be induced again. So her initial decisions ended up being right on and she was in a much better position to deal with what was happening (already had a relationship with her doc, etc.)

I think it's unfortunate how much misinformation is propagated. But I also think we need to trust mamas more. Women choose epidural hospital births out of more than just ignorance, and it's extremely disrespectful to assume otherwise and try to jam information down their throat. I mainly try to just be a good example. I talk about my out of hospital experience and make myself available to answer questions but I will never pressure anyone again.
post #53 of 53
AmieV, you are so right. I also think of it in the way that I don't want someone trying to convince me to have a hospital birth, so why should I try to convince someone to have a homebirth? It's such a personal choice.
What does get to me, though, is when women often seem actively unwilling to educate themselves at all. For example, when my friend attended the hospital birth prep class she mentioned to me that they didn't get all that much info on the reasons for/against getting an epidural because most of the time was taken up by one woman's protest against the nurse's explanation that they try to use natural pain relief first in that hospital. When I asked my friend, in a very neutral straightforward way (though she knows I am pro-homebirth), if she wanted info on epidural (because I could direct her to some), she quickly replied "oh no, I don't want to know anything, I already decided I'm having one". She went on to give birth uneventfully in the hospital, with an epidural, pitocin given without notifying her, an overbearing midwife who told her not to scream, and an (unnecessary) episiotomy. And she was happy. But it still bothers me, because she didn't choose it - she decided that she didn't want a choice. She actively chose not to educate herself about options, or to read a single word about birth, or about how birth is not only a medical event for that matter. It just makes me sad, no matter how much I tell myself that it's not my life, wasn't my birth to be sad about.
So you know, I don't have any beef with choosing a medicated hospital birth after educating yourself about birth, getting to know the birth process and common hospital procedures at least minimally. Or just because you feel that you will be safer in the hospital (like your friend's intuition). Or heck, just because you WANT the presence of the doctor and nurses. It's every woman's personal choice. What bothers me is when women refuse to educate themselves, and basically choose to cop out of the entire thing, giving themselves up totally to the "authorities" or the hospital establishment, refusing to think for themselves. It's like when you watch Baby Story and you see the medical establishment/cultural atmosphere around birth conspiring to just rob women of their births, and it makes you mad, even though it's not really your business. It's maddening because those women don't even realize they have a choice, and if you told them that they did they probably wouldn't even want to hear it.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Birth and Beyond
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Pregnancy and Birth › Birth and Beyond › What if you knew something nobody else seemed to know?