Help! Hosp. in Japan won't LET my friend EBF! (xposted in FYT)

[Rikki Jean]

Any advice? My friend is delivering at a hospital in Ushiku, and aside from a few other asinine policies, the hospital is telling her that she will not be allowed to breastfeed her baby exclusively. There is a language barrier (they're missionaries from the US, and have only been in Japan since last summer), but their understanding of the situation is that they WILL supplement, and there's nothing that she can do about it.

Any and all advice would be appreciated! I've sent her the contact info for both Tokyo LLL groups, but I don't know what other resources are available to her there, or what rights she has.

TY!

[Rikki Jean]

Originally Posted by MommytoC

Can she put in a call to the US Embassy? I'm sure there's a call they can put into the hospital. Part of the reason we have embassies is to advocate for our citizens residing in and making visits to other countries.

I'll keep this in mind to pass along. I don't know if she's bold enough to contact the embassy...

[readytobedone]

i don't understand this. it seems to me that she and her partner can just refuse that. her partner can stay by the baby's side constantly (like if they take him or her to the nursery for an "examination") to make sure she or he isn't supplemented. they can also demand to room-in.

and if she has an uneventful birth, they can check out of the hospital AMA within several hours, whenever her bleeding is under control and she feels up to it. or can't they?

i mean, i'm not familiar with japanese laws, but i doubt there the hospital can just force things on you without your consent (legally, i mean). someone correct me if i'm wrong.

[Rikki Jean]

Originally Posted by readytobedone

i don't understand this. it seems to me that she and her partner can just refuse that. her partner can stay by the baby's side constantly (like if they take him or her to the nursery for an "examination") to make sure she or he isn't supplemented. they can also demand to room-in.

and if she has an uneventful birth, they can check out of the hospital AMA within several hours, whenever her bleeding is under control and she feels up to it. or can't they?

i mean, i'm not familiar with japanese laws, but i doubt there the hospital can just force things on you without your consent (legally, i mean). someone correct me if i'm wrong.

Hospital policy does not allow her husband to be present at the birth. : I don't know when he will be allowed to be with her and/or the baby.

She is currently having some complications, and there has been talk of the doctors taking the baby early (she's 36ish weeks). She's currently admitted at the hospital, and her husband has very limited access to her (strict visiting policy); she doesn't even know if she'll be able to call him if they decide to take the baby early.

I know that there are certain things that you (general MDC "you") or I would do, being the types of empowered-birthers that frequent this board, but I believe that my friend is pretty mainstream in her pregnancy and birth views, so things like signing out AMA aren't going to happen for her.

She is also going for a VBAC, but reluctantly, as far as I understand; when I talked to her last summer, she really wasn't interested in the prospect of VBAC, but it's my understanding that her doctors are VBAC proponents.

[FullMetalMom]

Can't she go to a different hospital? Get a different doctor?

[Dar]

It sounds to me like she needs to find someone who is fluent in both Japanese and English to translate for her... possibly it's just a miscommunication?

[Can Dance]

I live in Japan, my friend is the LLL leader locally. is she in Tokyo? what hospital is she at?
you can pm me if you need to. let me know what mission she is with as well.

[1littlebit]

good lord they need to call the embassy..and maybe Can Dance can help!

what an awful traumatizing situation. language barrier, no dh, labor complications, ugh. that poor mama.

[2boyzmama]

My first baby was born in Japan, thankfully I delivered him on a military base, but I had several local national friends who described their birthing experiences to me.

It is common in Japan to keep moms in the hospital for up to a week after birth to allow time to recover, and the baby's are in the nursery basically all of the time, brought to mom only to be fed every few hours. But of course babies tend to cry, so the nurseries usually supplement. It is seen as just the "norm", at least at the hospitals where I was. :

Also, since milk doesn't come in right away, they supplement until mom is actually producing milk. When I told a friend that I never gave my son a drop of formula, she was shocked, truly thought he would starve in those first few days if not for formula.

There also is a big concern among Japanese women about the quality of their breastmilk, and many women will supplement with a bottle of formula after a feeding at the breast just because they are nervous the baby isn't getting enough.

Really, the whole culture behind breastfeeding was very disturbing to me. Nearly every woman there initiates breastfeeding, but also nearly every one supplemented to some extent, and extended nursing was definitely not the norm, I had several friends tell me their husbands told them when to stop nursing.

SO...this is what she may be up against. If she isn't willing to stand up for herself (which would take a LOT, because the rules and expectations in the medical community there are just different than here, I'm not even sure there is such a thing as AMA, I mean they wouldn't take her baby from her or anything, but she would certainly face a lot of polite opposition), then honestly the best thing you can do for her is hook her up with LLL so she can get baby on the breast full time when she's released from the hospital.

There are good things about the birthing community, they are very pro vaginal birth, have very low c-section rates, and the island I lived on (Okinawa) did not offer epidurals to moms delivering vaginally at any hospital except one. And there was only one hospital that did circumcisions. So it's not all bad...

[Rikki Jean]

Originally Posted by MommytoC

This is in Japan??

This was my reaction too!

Originally Posted by FullMetalMom

Can't she go to a different hospital? Get a different doctor?

I don't know. I just found out that the original plan was to give birth at a great birth center, but with the health concerns that are going on with the baby right now, she had to switch to a hospital.

Originally Posted by Dar

It sounds to me like she needs to find someone who is fluent in both Japanese and English to translate for her... possibly it's just a miscommunication?

I know that her husband's aunt has been translating for her when she can, but I don't know how fluent she is either (she's also American). She could be completely fluent, but I'm not sure.

Originally Posted by Can Dance

I live in Japan, my friend is the LLL leader locally. is she in Tokyo? what hospital is she at?
you can pm me if you need to. let me know what mission she is with as well.

I'll pm ya.

Originally Posted by 2boyzmama

My first baby was born in Japan, thankfully I delivered him on a military base, but I had several local national friends who described their birthing experiences to me.

It is common in Japan to keep moms in the hospital for up to a week after birth to allow time to recover, and the baby's are in the nursery basically all of the time, brought to mom only to be fed every few hours. But of course babies tend to cry, so the nurseries usually supplement. It is seen as just the "norm", at least at the hospitals where I was. :

Also, since milk doesn't come in right away, they supplement until mom is actually producing milk. When I told a friend that I never gave my son a drop of formula, she was shocked, truly thought he would starve in those first few days if not for formula.

There also is a big concern among Japanese women about the quality of their breastmilk, and many women will supplement with a bottle of formula after a feeding at the breast just because they are nervous the baby isn't getting enough.

Really, the whole culture behind breastfeeding was very disturbing to me. Nearly every woman there initiates breastfeeding, but also nearly every one supplemented to some extent, and extended nursing was definitely not the norm, I had several friends tell me their husbands told them when to stop nursing.

SO...this is what she may be up against. If she isn't willing to stand up for herself (which would take a LOT, because the rules and expectations in the medical community there are just different than here, I'm not even sure there is such a thing as AMA, I mean they wouldn't take her baby from her or anything, but she would certainly face a lot of polite opposition), then honestly the best thing you can do for her is hook her up with LLL so she can get baby on the breast full time when she's released from the hospital.

There are good things about the birthing community, they are very pro vaginal birth, have very low c-section rates, and the island I lived on (Okinawa) did not offer epidurals to moms delivering vaginally at any hospital except one. And there was only one hospital that did circumcisions. So it's not all bad...

This is so sad.

I did give her mom (she's my info source on all of this) the contact info for the LLL in Tokyo, so I'm hoping that she or her husband contacts them for advice and support.

[lifeguard]

I would definitely be looking for someone who is an accurate interpreter. The embassy might be worth a try but ime the embassies are not very interested in getting involved. In fact if you look there is an extensive list of what they will & will not do - some of the items are surprising.

I found my poor spanish in Costa Rica was an asset when I had ds. The nurses were so scared/frustrated with me they pretty much let me be - maybe she'll have some of the same luck.

[proudmomof4]

You've already given the LLL contact in Tokyo. Additionally, I know that the area coordinator of Leaders in Asia has lived in Japan (speaks Japanese!) for a long time but is American. Please feel free to PM me for her e-mail address.

[Morningcalm]

Hi,


I've been meaning to reply for days now. I gave birth to my ds in South Korea so I have some experience with what it is like to give birth in an Northeast Asian country. From reading, both birthstories from expats who gave birth in Japan and Korea, I have found that there are a lot of similarities.

Basically, my advice to your friend is play the foreigner card. As Lifeguard said your friend will probably be able to get away with things that a Japanese person would not be able to.

My hospital tried to kick my husband out of the delivery room but I just kept demanding that he stay. They relented because I was a foreigner. Also, I kept my ds in my room whereas a lot of the Korean mothers left their babies in the nursery between feedings. My husband got to be with our son instead of looking at him from a window into the nursery like the Korean fathers.

Mind you, if it is a major hospital, they might not allow babies to room in the hospital wards. My friend discovered this when she gave birth to her ds in an university hospital. Her husband didn't get to hold their child until they took him home a week later.

So, tell your friend to find a hospital that allows rooming in and get a private room. Also, tell your friend to have her husband stay with the baby at all times after the birth. My husband watched over our son while I had to be stitched up.

Well, I hope all goes well with your friend.

[treemom2]

I have lived in Japan for 4 going on 5 years now and have never heard of any of this happening. Where I live, babies are breastfed, often for 2 years (with the Americanization of the culture, formula is becoming more common and sometimes is given in the hospital when the mama needs to rest, if the babe in jaundiced, or if there is a concern with blood sugar. . .but breastfeeding is very much encouraged). Rooming in is totally normal in the hospital and in birthing centers. . .in fact, when my DS was in the hospital when he was sick I was required to stay with him in a giant crib (not that I would have left, but this was a hospital rule). Women who give birth at the hospital or birthing centers can have their husbands present. So, none of this makes any sense to me. I have heard of supplementing with formula so the mama can rest after the birth, but this can be refused. So, I'm really confused about what is happening with your friend. I do know that in birthing centers where I live women are required to stay in the center for a minimum of 3 days but for the same price can stay 5 days which many of them do because the food and care is so good (the nurses wash your hair daily, massage your breasts to help your milk flow, the food is awesome). My best friend just gave birth a couple months ago here in Japan and her babe wasn't given a drop of formula, she had a totally natural birth (minus the pit after the birth, along with 3 days of antibiotics). . .her main complaints were that they would take the babe away everyday to wash him with a soap that really irritated his skin (she tried to refuse this, but refusing things in another language is very hard. . .they listen to you then do whatever they are supposed to do--it's one of the hardest things about dealing with the medical community here. . .Rules are rules and they aren't broken).

You might want to have her visit the Japan mama's tribe--maybe one of them lives nearby and can give more information. I just can't believe all this, it seems so out of the norm from everything I've heard (even though I'm associated with a military base, all women who are pg must go out in the Japanese community to give birth. . .either to a birthing center or to the city hospital).

[sapphire_chan]

Oops, read farther and I see she's already in the hospital.

Her husband needs to just push his way in. Put on the biggest idiot-smile in the world, stand as tall as possible and just keep saying "sorry, I don't understand you" until the nurses give up trying to throw him out. Oops, he's Japanese? Then she needs to tell him she will make the embarrassing scene to end all scenes if he tries to leave and he can tell the nurses that he'd leave but as they can see... foreigners, eh?

[treemom2]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

Oops, read farther and I see she's already in the hospital.

Her husband needs to just push his way in. Put on the biggest idiot-smile in the world, stand as tall as possible and just keep saying "sorry, I don't understand you" until the nurses give up trying to throw him out. Oops, he's Japanese? Then she needs to tell him she will make the embarrassing scene to end all scenes if he tries to leave and he can tell the nurses that he'd leave but as they can see... foreigners, eh?

yeh, not understanding and pretending to not understand does make others tend to leave us alone. . .once a friend of mine didn't know how to buy a train ticket. She got on the train and got to her destination thinking someone would help her when she got there. The person who took her money didn't understand her, got frustrated trying to explain things, and told her just to go ahead and go. . .

Also, there are midwives (more like med wives) in Japan. To use a midwife you must also go to an OB who gives the final word on if the midwife can accept you as a client or not.

[annekh23]

I agree with others to push the foreigner card, I haven't delivered in the far east, but I did spend most of a pregnancy in South Korea and I had to be monitored in the delivery room a couple of times and initially DH would be left at the door, he'd just wait a bit, then knock and they'd let him in, I never saw another husband even waiting outside.

When I had to stay in for several days, DH was able to be there anytime, we honestly didn't even know if there were visiting hours and when he should and shouldn't be there.

[Morningcalm]

How is your friend doing? I hope everything is working out for her.