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Is it possible to discipline a defiant child without rewards and sticker charts? What has worked...

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Ok, a bit of background: dd6 has been dx with ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) since she was 3 or 4. She's 6.75 yrs now. She has episodes of aggression, problems with anger management (throwing things, hitting people), taking/ruining her sister's stuff (dd2 is 4), problems at school (we had planned on homeschooling, but for now she's in public school).

We're taking a parenting course through Mental Health, for kids with behaviour issues. Now, I shouldn't expect too much of a mainstream approach, but we're at our wits' end with trying to figure out how to get our family functioning smoother.

There is a big focus in the parent group to do sticker/reward charts, as if this is the only real answer. Having tried for so long to follow Unconditional Parenting and general GD, this approach doesn't sit well with me. But then again, I have a 6 year old who has frequent, violent meltdowns, and I am worried about affecting the other children (dd4 and ds1).

What else can I do? Other than sticker charts, what is there? There must be another way to teach her the skills she is lacking that will help her function in life.

I've got all of Ross Green's books too, but I can't seem to figure out how to apply his approach. I think I need a live-in parenting coach that is GD.
post #2 of 18
For me, part of AP/GD is meeting my children where their needs are. Some children need more scaffolding to help them develop the emotional skills that they need.

The other thing is that once you're dealing with atypical development, then you also need to give up the assumption that just doing "more" of what works for typical children will work for your child. Sometimes you need to do something radically different. It can still be gentle. It should most definitely involved connection and attachment. BUT, I'm not sold enough on UP to stick to that when it's not working. Maybe your daughter NEEDS things broken down into steps so that she can learn through repetition the steps that most kids do automatically.

A good friend of mine has a son who is intensely challenging. I watched her struggle with how she was going to parent/treat his issues and how she changed. She went from saying "no meds, ever" to doing meds and rewards. They did the meds for about a year and then were able to wean him off. But that year was crucial, because they gave their son just a few more seconds to THINK about his reaction before he acted. So, he went from a child who would lash out/punch holes in the walls to a child who was able to run up to a safe place in their house to be when he was upset. He went from a child who was always reacting (and never appropriately) to a child who could anticipate when a situation was going to be difficult and work out solutions with his parents. Because the meds gave him extra 'thinking' time, he was able to develop new skills, and then once he had those skills, he was able to function without them. But he couldn't get the new skills without the meds, however much his parents did not want him on them.

Now, I'm not advocating meds for your daughter (I don't even know if they're available!) but what I am advocating is thinking about the 'unthinkable' and really seeing if it works. So, if all else had failed, I would try rewards.

What does the research say about disciplining kids with ODD? what have you read? I really like the book "The Challenging Child" by Stanley Greenspan. It's very AP, and yet he does talk about the need for consequences for actions (aka punishments) for challenging kids.
post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
I've read the Ross Green books (The Eplosive Child), A new one called Honey I Wrecked the Kids (about discipline resistant kids), And I'm currently flipping through the Nurtured Heart.

I feel apprehensive about doing a sticker thing because I tend to be a purist who likes to stick to the "rules", so I have a hard time deviating from UP. In fact, Alfie Kohn even says in Punished by Rewards: "The fact of the matter is that everything we know about the futility of punishment doesn't stop being true just because the child's behaviour is especially disturbing or has continued over time." (p 232)

I've also been going through a book written for kids with behaviour challenges that is interesting. I forget what it's called, and I can't seem to find it. DD and I did talk some about the issue of self-esteem, where she told me she didn't like herself, though she did eventually come up with a few things she could do well.

The thing that worries me about a reward system is that she'll get hooked and the behaviour changes will only stay as long as the reinforcers/bribes are in place. I also am torn about what to do with my other dd. If she sees her sister getting rewards that she doesn't, she might feel bad. She's a very easy going, compliant child. The leader of the parenting group seems to think we should do a separate reward system for her, but why "ruin" an already well behaved child by teaching her that you only need to behave if you get something for it?

My head is starting to spin...
post #4 of 18
I don't think sticker charts etc are necessarily bad.

However -- here's the sticking point. I think they can work and not be anti-Kohn if they are put into place to help a child through to the point where they can enjoy the natural postiive consequences of of the change of behavior.

in other words - if the only positive consequence is the sticker/reward, I'm not sure how well they work. However, if you use it to work on a behavior that has a real-world positive consequence, the rewards are just an interim step until they can see the real-world postiive outcome of their behavior.

So sometimes, they really work, and I don't think Kohn is 100% right about them being the antichrist of parenting techniques.

For example: My son was having problems with outbursts in school. They were disruptive to the other kids and embarassing to him. His teacher instituted a "smiley card" system, where if he made it through the day without outbursts, he got a card to bring home to me. There was a reward at school for a certain number of cards (a special pencil from her pencil can) and we made a big deal about the cards at home.

But the real reward in learning that self-control was not the pencil or the praise from us. The real reward was the fact that he did nto LIKE these outbursts when they happened. They made him feel out of control and embarassed. So as they happened less and less, he felt better about himself, his friends noticed and were more willing to include him in acctivities that had been the ones that prompted the outbursts, and he was all over happier. He even talked about how things were better with his friends and he felt better about himself. When the teacher stopped the cards, there was no backsliding, because it wasn't really about the cards -- they were just a daily reminder that he *could* do it.

In my experience and observation, sticker charts dont't work so well in changing behaviors that the child has no extrinsic reason to want to change beyond the chart. But if there is something the child wants to change and has a reason to work at changing -- but needs help and support along the way -- then charts like that can help.
post #5 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam_and_Abigail View Post
The thing that worries me about a reward system is that she'll get hooked and the behaviour changes will only stay as long as the reinforcers/bribes are in place. ...
We sought help when our 6 yo was having violent rages. We ended up utilizing rewards and punishments for certain target behaviors (punishment was timeout, used exclusively and immediately for violence....rewards were for facing her fears, as she struggled with anxiety).

We did not find that she got hooked on these external forces at all. On the contrary, for her, the punishments esp helped her see the boundary of what is acceptable and what is not, and stay within it. It wasn't futile; it worked. And once she was forced to stay within that limit, she was open to learning more adaptive ways to express and deal with her big emotions (and there was lots of other therapy stuff happening to help her learn more appropriate behaviors).

And once she learned those new behaviors, she preferred them because they felt better than being in a rage. So she chose them more consistently. Feeling good was its own reward, as Alfie Kohn suggests....but she needed some help to get there, kwim?

And now we have very little need for punishment and reward again. She's now 8.5, btw.
post #6 of 18
post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
Well, I've been trying to digest and assimilate all this, and I really do appreciate the idea that this kind of system might be able to fit into UP. I'm still not sure where to go next as far as family management.
One question I have is how do you wean them off the reward and onto the natural consequence? Even now, my dd has gotten used to the reward system used at school, to the point that she will outright ask what she gets for doing something good, sometimes. She also very quickly figured out how to optimize the school's system, by realizing that she could "act up" two times before she's lose her reward. They changed the system after that. The thing that baffles me about that story from the school, is that if she truly was doing that, then it sounds like she has control over when she acts up. And perhaps that the natural consequences aren't enough? A lot of times when I point out a natural consequence to her troubling behaviours, she responds with "I don't care".

So, to stay within the realm of Unconditional Parenting and Gentle Discipline as much as possible, how would I go about implementing a system?

Some of the things I would like to target are - handling tough emotions and treating her sister with disrespect. Also, at the same time, I want to take the approach of helping her learn the skills she is lacking. I'm also unsure of how to make it seem fair to her well-behaved sister.

Thank you so much for helping me figure out my family's dynamics.
post #8 of 18
My son has early-onset bipolar disoder, which I know has a good bit of overlap with ODD. We deal with some of the same problems. I've toyed with the idea of doing a sticker chart, but we haven't had to go that route yet. It's often suggested in the juvenile BP literature as well.

With DS, we really had to ramp up the natural consequences of actions. Sometimes I would get so exhausted dealing with the tantrums that I just didn't have the energy to do anything else. I would tell him in the mornings "we need to go to the farmer's market, and clean the bathroom. If you can be calm, then I'll have the energy to take you to the park." We would remind him when he started to meltdown about what we wanted to do at the end of the day's "chores."

It helped tremendously. The first couple of times we didn't do something because he'd been so intense, he had horrible tantrums. Horrible. And we just had to work through them. Now he's much better at controlling his actions.

That was not the route I wanted to take with him - to make everything seem like an "if you don't behave..." kind of day. With a child who has these psych disorders, though, the tantrums truly are tiring (and humiliating).

We also use timeouts, which I know aren't popular at MDC, for violence. When he's manic, he becomes impulsively violent, and it gets pretty bad (handprints from choking a friend and that sort of thing). We also sometimes will take him to his room and sit with him, which bothers him when he knows he's missing out on something. Sometimes that has to be done, though, so that everyone else doesn't feel the day is always ruined because of DS's behavior.

As for DD, who is a really laid-back kid, we try to make sure we spend some time with her alone. This works especially well if both DH and I are home. One of us will deal with DS, and one of us will take DD into another room and play with her. It gets her away from the tantrums, which can get scary, and doesn't just shove her into the corner because DS is raging.
post #9 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam_and_Abigail View Post
So, to stay within the realm of Unconditional Parenting and Gentle Discipline as much as possible, how would I go about implementing a system?.
GD can include punishments and rewards. Stay GD by avoiding shaming, physical punishments, cruelty, etc. We stayed as close to UP as possible by only using the punishment/reward paradigm for the targeted behaviors, which were clearly spelled out to dd. For the rest of daily stuff, we continued to use problem solving strategies and fill dd up with as much love as possible. You've read THe Explosive Child? To use Green's analogy of baskets, the target behaviors had a basket of their own: you hit, you sit--immediately (no chances) and without discussion. Should be discussed later, of course, ideally with the child exploring the question "what else could I have done in that situation?"

These target behaviors: handling tough emotions and treating her sister with disrespect are pretty vague. You'll need to identify very specific behaviors, and also teach your dc very specific alternative behaviors.

As for your other dc, I would explain that things like reward charts are for helping people to learn new habits. Does she have a habit she would like to change, or you would like her to change? Maybe she would feel included if she had a chart for putting her clothing in the hamper each day, or something. I wouldn't worry about it "ruining" her, because it is in such limited scope. More importantly, I wouldn't let the fear of theoretically ruining a nicely behaved sibling stop me from finding strategies for helping another child who is struggling right now. I really believe that, when my dd was behaving miserably, she was miserable.
post #10 of 18
Our dd had, among others, a dx of ODD. We relied very little on reward systems, but we did use one. We found it to be very positive, actually, because it highlighted dd's positive behavior. We were able to phase it out, it was not something dd became "hooked" on, she didn't backslide when we stopped. Most reward systems are only meant to be used temporarily, and are only effective temporarily. I was reluctant, and we did not ever move on to the phase of removing points for undesirable behavior, as our therapist initially wanted, because we believed that since the behavior was due to underlying issues/lagging skills it was more important to be proactive (and we believed taking away points would be frustrating for dd because of this, and thus create more problems).

We also found it helpful to have daily "special time" where our interactions with dd (one-on-one) were very positive, and led by her. This helped us build trust and some positive feelings. Additionally, we found that a "you hit, you sit" rule was very helpful (and taught dd a lot about the importance of the skill of calming down).

I think one of the biggest keys to using Ross Greene's system is to take the time to identify what skills, specifically, are lagging in your child. It's hard to teach the skills if you aren't sure which ones need to be taught. I found that this was a good place to start, just spending time observing and figuring out what skills dd was needing help with. (There is a checklist of skills here.) I also found that it's hard to get a really good handle on the approach just from the book. I attended a couple of workshops on this approach that really helped. Additionally, www.thinkkids.com recently put up some videos demonstrating the approach (in the "Parents" section under "What's next?"). I found videos of the approach in action to be very helpful (there's also a DVD you can get from amazon). Think:Kids also has blogs for parents and clinicians that have some good tips for implementing the approach. On that site are also some links to a podcast that explains the method (the link is here), and there was at least one episode of the Parenting For Humanity blog that had Ross Greene on talking about it (available at blog talk radio and itunes). and Also, if you visit http://www.explosivekids.org/cgi-bin...um/dcboard.cgi there's some very good discussion about the method. We found that it was possible to use this approach combined with a reward system, and eventually phase out the reward system. But IMO, this approach is what was most effective and to which I give the bulk of the credit. I also want to note that there is a big learning curve with this approach. It does take time and effort to learn, but don't get discouraged and give up. It is so effective. Also, sometimes the reason this approach doesn't seem to be working is that the child needs to develop some skills before they're able to participate in it (this is what we found with dd).

Raising A Thinking Child has some good ideas for teaching skills. This one was in my toolbox a lot. What To Do When Your Temper Flares was a good one too, anger management skills for kids.

I also found that explaining to our therapist that we wanted to utilize a more proactive, skills-teaching approach helped. She then worked with us to come up with ways of working with dd, down to which words to use and which to avoid b/c they trigger dd, that helped dd improve her skills. We worked with dd on calming down, on identifying and communicating her feelings, on relaxation, on flexibility. We worked on helping her get better sleep (insomnia due to anxiety), and on coping with her anxiety.

Also, I think that Oppositional Defiant Disorder is often not a stand-alone disorder. I think that if you haven't already, identifying other issues within your child is very important (other issues could include another disorder, or simply lagging skills). Very often the ODD symptoms are arising as a result of something else going on. For my dd, the ODD is accompanied by an anxiety disorder along with the lagging skills, and addressing those issues is crucial to addressing the ODD effectively. It's amazing how much more able dd was to learn and improve once the anxiety was addressed (though addressing the lagging skills was/is still a long road).
post #11 of 18
I wanted to add that we have two other kids, and neither of them were ever envious of the reward system we had in place for our dd. Neither of them ever expressed a desire to receive rewards themselves, neither ever asked "why can't I?" They never said it wasn't fair. They did ask what it was, and we explained both what it was and why dd needed it. They understood. They were, let's see, 6 and 4 at the time we were using it. Just pointing out that a reward system for one child doesn't always cause problems with the siblings.
post #12 of 18
Thread Starter 
I am getting a lot of really useful information from this thread, thankd you so much! I want ot check out that book for teaching skills, because I have identified many skills that are lacking, but don't know how to take it from there.
What kind of assessment would I have done to find other issues? What should I ask for by name?
We also do timeouts, which I dislike, but mostly for hurtful behaviour.
As far as being more specific with our targets, it's hard to pinpoint this, because there are so many things in the run of the day that are a problem, but they're generally things that fit into a few broad categories.
Other than hurting people / throwing things when she gets upset, the next most bothersome is the stuff she does to her sister, in the vein of intentionally annoying her (one of the tenets of ODD). Like, she'll take something of her sister's and ruin it or hide it. This makes her sister react quite strongly. In the past, we managed to get dd1 to help pay to replace something, but it's usually hard to convince her of this.

How could I target this? Just a blanket "no touching sister's things?" What if her sister wants to share?

I definitely like the idea of skipping the part about removal of points, it seems too punitive.

Off to check out those links, thanks!
post #13 of 18
One kind of assessment that I've seen recommended repeatedly to parents of kids with behavioral issues is a complete neuropsychological evaluation. A neuropsych evaluation will be able to pinpoint where a child needs help, what level the child is functioning at in various areas. We haven't done this, yet, because of the expense (it wasn't covered by insurance when dd was in therapy)--we learned enough in two regular psychological evaluations to help dd, and couldn't really justify the expense. Our psychological evaluations consisted of interviews with us, a parent questionnaire designed to score dd's functioning in several areas, information from teachers, and a session between dd and the psychologist (including some questionnaires dd answered that scored her in the areas of anxiety and mood). Also, what kind of evaluations have you had done so far? If you go to conductdisorders.com, the parents there are a wealth of information about types of assessments and the kinds of things that go along with ODD.

We found that in addition to the two psychological evaluations, family therapy (me, dh and the psychologist-no dd) really helped us further pinpoint dd's issues--lagging skills isn't something that necessarily has a formal diagnosis, and not something that's necessarily going to be seen in the psychologist's office. Parenting courses and workshops just can only help so much, and aren't tailored to my individual child the way family therapy is. The family therapy was excellent, because we could sit down weekly and say this is what happened, this is what we did, this is how it worked out...and through this process we could figure out things like "dd needs to learn to regulate her emotions" and "dd needs to learn words for her emotions" and so on. Sometimes it just helps (with regard to figuring out what's going on with your child and how to best address it) to talk over the behavior and surrounding circumstances with someone. (And yes, we did have to examine our behavior as parents and face the idea that some of the things we were doing were potentially contributing to the problem in some way. Not easy, but sometimes you need that objective person to help you see these things, so you can more effectively help your child.) I specifically sat down with our therapist and told her we wanted to take a proactive, skills-teaching approach to addressing dd's behavior. I outlined examples of skills I thought dd needed, explained my discomfort with removal of points. She was totally respectful and really helped us find develop that proactive, skills-based approach. I think that this kind of approach is still not all that widespread. Our therapist had read The Explosive Child but was still following a rewards/punishment based program designed for ODD until we clarified what we wanted. I think that if she had been really married to the rewards chart idea and reluctant to help us do the proactive, skills-teaching thing we would have found someone else to work with.

Figuring out how to teach skills (not just identify what skills needed teaching) is another thing I loved about family therapy. I'd be all out of ideas, and I'd get to therapy and say "this is what's going on, I don't know how to help with this," and the therapist would have great ideas. So for instance when it came to calming down/staying calm and communicating her feelings, I had tried so many things. Then the therapist suggested dd come in for a session on feelings, just an educational thing about feelings and how our bodies feel when we experience certain emotions. Then for home, at the therapist's suggestion, we started using these feelings charts but at first only-and this I never would have thought of-when she was feeling good. Talking about feelings when she was upset was both difficult for her (too aroused to learn and think clearly) and a trigger to make her more upset (because this had been a hot button in our family for so long). Another great thing our therapist suggested was creating opportunities for dd to be flexible with her siblings, setting her up for it and reinforcing her when she did (but not verbally, the therapist picked up on the fact that for dd that can be embarrassing or too much pressure so we ended up with a fist-bump thing that dd really responded to).

Personally, for the touching sister's things I would probably make the target "ask for, and get, permission before using someone else's things." Also, why is she annoying her sister intentionally? (this is something I would ask myself.) Yes, that's a hallmark of ODD but also, it's likely that there's some kind of reasoning behind it. Most obvious, she might want to use her sister's things--and she's grabbing because she's impulsive, or thinks if she asks the answer will be 'no' and she has difficulty coping with that (an inflexible kid, like mine, wants what she wants and has difficulty accepting anything else--so flexibility is a key skill here). Impulse control and flexibilty are skills she can learn which may lead to less grabbing. I also know my dd annoys her siblings more when she's feeling anxious, bored, or lonely. If we address teaching the skills to cope with those things, she becomes less likely to annoy her siblings.

We did the timeouts for hurtful behavior with an emphasis on calming down. Dd got aggressive when upset (and she could go from happy as can be to raging mad in a heartbeat). So we'd say "you're too upset to be safe. Sit here until you're calm, then we can talk." We are frequently emphasizing calming down and staying calm around here. That's really the focus and function of time out here, it's time to calm down--it's a skills-teaching moment (even though it undoubtedly feels like punishment to dd). Along with this, we worked with dd to figure out activities that help her feel calm that she could use anytime she felt tense, anxious, angry.

I think when you're deciding what things to target first, you have to look at what behavior is the most problematic, the most urgent. For me, that's aggression toward others hands down. I like to look at it this way because targeting one specific behavior at a time, and the skills needed for that one specific goal, is easier than trying to teach all my child's lagging skills at once. It's just more manageable. Then you think about what skills your particular child needs to improve in order to function without becoming aggressive. What are the triggers for that behavior? What skills would she need to experience those triggers and respond without aggression? Once you identify those skills, the hard part is figuring out how to help your child learn them. It isn't always easy. For my dd, it was like putting together a jigsaw puzzle-there's the sleep piece, and the stress piece, and the anxiety/coping skills piece, the emotion regulation piece, the communication piece, the trust piece, the flexibility piece, etc. But you do it one piece at a time. It's slow. But I did find that in addition to making progress with that one behavior, as dd learned those skills they carried over to other areas and other things improved as well.

It's not an easy road. But there is hope! Remember to take care of yourself too.
post #14 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magella View Post
I think when you're deciding what things to target first, you have to look at what behavior is the most problematic, the most urgent. For me, that's aggression toward others hands down. I like to look at it this way because targeting one specific behavior at a time, and the skills needed for that one specific goal, is easier than trying to teach all my child's lagging skills at once. It's just more manageable. Then you think about what skills your particular child needs to improve in order to function without becoming aggressive. What are the triggers for that behavior? What skills would she need to experience those triggers and respond without aggression? Once you identify those skills, the hard part is figuring out how to help your child learn them. It isn't always easy. For my dd, it was like putting together a jigsaw puzzle-there's the sleep piece, and the stress piece, and the anxiety/coping skills piece, the emotion regulation piece, the communication piece, the trust piece, the flexibility piece, etc. But you do it one piece at a time. It's slow. But I did find that in addition to making progress with that one behavior, as dd learned those skills they carried over to other areas and other things improved as well..
Yes to all that Magella wrote....esp this paragraph!

Also, I can not imagine working through all that we worked though in family therapy without family therapy. It really was extremely helpful, including, as magella said, when it sometimes required us to take a hard look at how we might be contributing to the problem.

Dd had "homework" throughout our year in family therapy that seemed to pick up a lot of lagging skills while we focused on the most urgent issues. I love it, and think just about anyone could benefit from it. Each week, she was choose 3 things that happened (good or bad). She would fill out a sheet that said "What happened", "How it made me feel" (mad/sad/glad/etc), "What I did", and "What else I could have done". The "What else I could have done" could be anything else--better or worse. It just got her in the habit of reflecting on her behavioral choices, as well as understanding them to be choices.
post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnmama View Post
Each week, she was choose 3 things that happened (good or bad). She would fill out a sheet that said "What happened", "How it made me feel" (mad/sad/glad/etc), "What I did", and "What else I could have done". The "What else I could have done" could be anything else--better or worse. It just got her in the habit of reflecting on her behavioral choices, as well as understanding them to be choices.
This was one huge thing we all learned from family therapy. Dh and I had gotten in the habit of talking with dd about a better way she could have handled things. But it was much more effective in terms of teaching skills to talk about different ways we can handle things, all the other (not better, just other) things we could do or could have done--leaving the whole question wide open to the imagination. And then, eventually, you can evaluate all those possibilities, think about what might happen if you do this, that or the other thing.

And, it's easier to be flexible without the pressure of better. Dd was much more receptive to other or different than she was to better.
post #16 of 18
Thread Starter 
Sorry I abandoned this thread! Thanks for all the suggestions. I like that Think Kids site, and the book about learning skills - I'm buying a used copy of it.

We're still floundering around, but we're trying to fix up our rules a bit better, to be more consistent and not making up rules and punishments on the spot. I've also been talking to dd reflectively about good and poor choices she makes and about setting goals for coming times (As per the book called The Behaviour Survival Guide for Kids by Tom McIntyre.

"Personally, for the touching sister's things I would probably make the target "ask for, and get, permission before using someone else's things." Also, why is she annoying her sister intentionally? (this is something I would ask myself.) Yes, that's a hallmark of ODD but also, it's likely that there's some kind of reasoning behind it. Most obvious, she might want to use her sister's things--and she's grabbing because she's impulsive, or thinks if she asks the answer will be 'no' and she has difficulty coping with that (an inflexible kid, like mine, wants what she wants and has difficulty accepting anything else--so flexibility is a key skill here)."

She seems to do this because (it seems) she can't stand for her sister to have anything nice or good, even if she has one of her own, too.

I love the sound of the homework for therapy! That's a really good idea.

I think it bothers me to use a reward program for anything that involves lacking a skill - the whole "kids do well if they can" thing.
I also can't stand the defiant attitude and disrespectful attitude she often shows.

The therapist we are dealing with doesn't have a mindframe about skills - she maintains that behaviour charts are the only way to go and must be done. We're limited in options for care, and I have no idea how to find a professional with this take on it.
post #17 of 18
I just talk to my dd mostly, especially now that she is older and explain the reasoning behind what I am asking/telling dd to do. I really recommend the book How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk. I have hardly ever gone beyond talking and the times I have are mostly due to frustration and overreacting.
post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam_and_Abigail View Post
She seems to do this because (it seems) she can't stand for her sister to have anything nice or good, even if she has one of her own, too.
My dd is like this at times. Sometimes it's as if no matter what she has of her own, she wants what her siblings have (could be a toy, could be attention, could be anything). It's a little hard to describe, but I've come to think that often it's coming from feelings of rivalry/jealousy. I wonder, sometimes, if that rivalry comes from just the reality that we do tend to get along with her siblings...well, more easily. There's just a lot more conflict between us and dd1, and we've so often been in the position of protecting the siblings from her. And no matter how much we try not to take sides, I think our frustration shows more often than we'd like to admit and she's just aware that our relationship with her tends to be less harmonious. And I think that must not feel very good, and sometimes she takes that out on her siblings. I think it helps when we work very hard on being positive with her, and connecting with her, really nurturing that relationship with her...but there are still those rough times when that's really hard to do. And, too, some rivalry between siblings is just normal (while the behavior of our ODD kiddos in the context of that rivalry is not, if that makes sense).

Also, sometimes I think dd1 just feels bad--anxious, whatever--and she takes that out on her siblings too. They're a "safe" target.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam_and_Abigail View Post
The therapist we are dealing with doesn't have a mindframe about skills - she maintains that behaviour charts are the only way to go and must be done. We're limited in options for care, and I have no idea how to find a professional with this take on it.
That is hard. I know that you can email the Think Kids people and ask for referrals to people who've been trained in that approach. Also at the foundation for children with behavioral challenges website (http://www.fcbcsupport.org/, now affiliated with Think Kids), you may be able to find names of therapists in your area or support groups in your area. But yeah, it is hard to find someone with this outlook.

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