Kefir questions...

[mamafish9]

So I am growing many things in my kitchen right now ! I got some raw goat's milk and made kefir, and I have some hanging to make a soft kefir cheese. I have some culturing for yogurt as well. (And a sourdough starter to help make our breads more digestible).

And, DS really likes the goat's milk kefir, to my utter astonishment (this is the kid who would drink NOTHING from a cup, and he's had a couple of oz of kefir each of the last two days).

A little background - we were off dairy for about 6 weeks, then I trialed cow's milk yogurt - fail. I trialed store bought (pasteurized) goat's milk yogurt - fail, although much more subtle. We've been doing the raw goat's milk kefir for two days, and no GI symptoms at all, but I'm waiting to see on behavioral stuff.

But, about the kefir:

1) For a child who is dairy sensitive, has anyone had success with raw milk yogurt/kefir when pasteurized failed?

2) How much kefir should I be starting him on - is this a case of "how ever much he is happy to drink", or should I be going very slowly in increasing the amount? (It never occurred to me he would actually WANT to drink it!).

3) If I understand right, the benefit of kefir for him (low stomach acid and casein sensitive) is that he will get the kefir helping with digestion of the casein and other stuff he eats too. Does that mean he should only get casein as part of live kefir? (I'm wondering if I can use it in baking, or whether I can have some kefir - in both cases, I think he would end up getting the casein, but not the helpful digestive enzymes and bacteria of the live cultures).

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

But, about the kefir:

1) For a child who is dairy sensitive, has anyone had success with raw milk yogurt/kefir when pasteurized failed?

Ds could not tolerate anything but raw or cultured dairy. Even cultured commercial dairy caused some hyperactivity. Raw, no issues when cultured. But, he doesn't do much raw dairy, other than in baked goods.

2) How much kefir should I be starting him on - is this a case of "how ever much he is happy to drink", or should I be going very slowly in increasing the amount? (It never occurred to me he would actually WANT to drink it!).

How old?

> 1 year, few ounces a day, increase each week by an ounce or so, as desired. See how it goes. There is plenty of benefit in just 1 tablespoon. More isn't necessary, increase gradually, imo.

3) If I understand right, the benefit of kefir for him (low stomach acid and casein sensitive) is that he will get the kefir helping with digestion of the casein and other stuff he eats too. Does that mean he should only get casein as part of live kefir? (I'm wondering if I can use it in baking, or whether I can have some kefir - in both cases, I think he would end up getting the casein, but not the helpful digestive enzymes and bacteria of the live cultures).

The kefir helps with digesting the casein IN THE MILK. The enzymes and prebiotics in the raw dairy and kefir help to predigest grains when grains are soaked overnight. We avoid all other casein, except the cultured dairy. Some folks can do fine on cultured dairy, some have more intolerance issues. I believe it is more related to degree of gut imbalance. I'd rather see you not push it, as you only need a little for a lot of benefit. But, if you overload on casein, you/he may have issues, still. Water kefir is another alternative, however.

The "sour" lactobacilis is what helps with stomach acid. That is in many foods, yogurt, dill pickles, sauerkraut also. The histamine forming foods also help with stomach acid: carrot juice and cabbage juice and unripe bananas, specifically.

Just happened upon this informative site with many 'how to avoid allergies' alternatives. http://www.naturalways.com/allergy1.htm


Pat

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by WuWei

> 1 year, few ounces a day, increase each week by an ounce or so, as desired. See how it goes. There is plenty of benefit in just 1 tablespoon. More isn't necessary, increase gradually, imo.

The kefir helps with digesting the casein IN THE MILK. The enzymes and prebiotics in the raw dairy and kefir help to predigest grains when grains are soaked overnight. We avoid all other casein, except the cultured dairy. Some folks can do fine on cultured dairy, some have more intolerance issues. I believe it is more related to degree of gut imbalance. I'd rather see you not push it, as you only need a little for a lot of benefit. But, if you overload on casein, you/he may have issues, still. Water kefir is another alternative, however.

The "sour" lactobacilis is what helps with stomach acid. That is in many foods, yogurt, dill pickles, sauerkraut also. The histamine forming foods also help with stomach acid: carrot juice and cabbage juice and unripe bananas, specifically.
Pat

Thank you so much Pat! I definitely don't want to overdo it - but I am also being overrun with kefir . I was trying to figure out if I could use it in my baking in place of hemp milk and such - sounds like that is something to try far down the road.

I'm hoping the kefir will help his stomach acid, to help digest other things he eats as well, in addition to helping directly predigest casein. I have yogurt culturing as well, but that is more raw goat dairy, and I'm guessing he's going to be volume sensitive. I may try coconut milk yogurt, although that is touchy with his salicylate sensitivity. He won't touch bubbies pickles or sauerkraut. Maybe carrot juice, I can try mixing that with the kefir. I've never been successful at getting him to drink anything besides a tiny bit of water, and now the kefir, but who knows, maybe this will open up new horizons for him!

[WuWei]

Yes, bake with the kefir. It doesn't have the probiotic benefits after it is heated. But you get the prebiotic and enzyme benefits when soaking. Do you know of the Sue Gregg blender batter method? http://www.suegregg.com/recipes/brea...erwafflesA.htm You can use any whole grains. It is tons more nutrious than flour.



Pat

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Yes, bake with the kefir. It doesn't have the probiotic benefits after it is heated. But you get the prebiotic and enzyme benefits when soaking. Do you know of the Sue Gregg blender batter method? http://www.suegregg.com/recipes/brea...erwafflesA.htm You can use any whole grains. It is tons more nutrious than flour.
Pat

MMM, I love those waffles. We use wild rice and millet usually. I was just trying to figure out if using kefir for that would just increase DS' casein load unecessarily...

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by mamafish9

MMM, I love those waffles. We use wild rice and millet usually. I was just trying to figure out if using kefir for that would just increase DS' casein load unecessarily...

Yes, but I believe she uses any kind of juice or liquid or "milks" as alternatives. I use the milk kefir because I know it helps to predigest the whole grains. I haven't tried it with water kefir. But, you could experiment a bit. I'd avoid large doses of dairy, personally, since you are concerned and have issues.


Pat

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Yes, but I believe she uses any kind of juice or liquid or "milks" as alternatives. I use the milk kefir because I know it helps to predigest the whole grains. I haven't tried it with water kefir. But, you could experiment a bit. I'd avoid large doses of dairy, personally, since you are concerned and have issues.

That makes sense. I use hemp milk + vinegar and do the overnight soak version. I bet I could use hemp milk + a little kefir and get more predigesting going on...

[Chinese Pistache]

There is a mom on here whose lo was/is allergic to everything, but the one thing he tolerated was raw goat milk kefir. Pat, do you remember who that was?

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache

There is a mom on here whose lo was/is allergic to everything, but the one thing he tolerated was raw goat milk kefir. Pat, do you remember who that was?

I'd love to hear if someone else had that experience. Sometimes I feel like I'm just kidding myself that raw kefir will work when pasteurized yogurt didn't...

[Chinese Pistache]

Here you go. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ght=goat+kefir

[mamafish9]

Thank you! Unfortunately, I think the goat's milk kefir eventually failed for them, but hopefully that won't be us too.

Three days and he's doing great on a couple of oz of kefir a day... I also kefir'ed coconut milk, so I will use that for blender waffles.

Pat, if you get back to this thread, do you know if kefir grains produce as much good stuff in coconut milk as they do in dairy milk?

[WuWei]

Yes, coconut milk is very nutritious. I've heard that the kefir grains won't reproduce in the coconut milk, however. So, keep some kefir grains back in milk to reproduce and have as back up.

Pat

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Yes, coconut milk is very nutritious. I've heard that the kefir grains won't reproduce in the coconut milk, however. So, keep some kefir grains back in milk to reproduce and have as back up.

Pat

Thank you! DD will drink the coconut kefir too (she was not impressed by the goat's milk kefir!).

I don't know about everyone else's kefir grains, but mine seem to reproduce in ANYTHING. The top of my fridge must be happy kefir land .

I just got them about 5 days ago, and I have 5x as many as I started with. The ones in coconut milk last night almost doubled their growth. I have one batch that I will always leave in goat's milk, and now I am experimenting with the excess (I put some in pear juice today).

I am about to post to my local mom's thread to see if anyone else wants some kefir grains, since DH is beginning to laugh at my little jars of fermentation all over the kitchen!

[Lady Lilya]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Yes, coconut milk is very nutritious. I've heard that the kefir grains won't reproduce in the coconut milk, however. So, keep some kefir grains back in milk to reproduce and have as back up.

Pat

It's too bad coconut milk is so damn expensive and hard to get. I have to send away for it if I want it without a bunch of additives. I guess the local stores are more interested in supplying the consumers who want coconut milk for its pleasure-factor than for its health-factor.

I've never been much of a milk-drinker, but once I had coconut milk I just wanted to do nothing but sit and drink it until the whole case was gone.

[mamafish9]

Originally Posted by Lady Lilya

It's too bad coconut milk is so damn expensive and hard to get. I have to send away for it if I want it without a bunch of additives.

I can get it really cheap here in the Asian food market... We tolerate guar gum OK, so that additive works, but that's all that is in mine besides coconut. It works out to about the same price as my raw goat's milk, I think (and I can get that cheap in this town!).