French rise to new heights of absurdity

[mahdokht]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...652121,00.html

[merpk]

Heights ... or is it lows ...

[neveryoumindthere]

i saw this last night....

that's really sad and infuriating l...

does anyone know if the original ban included pentagrams or dreamcatchers or necklaces that depict Mary and Jesus or the like?

[jeca]

MY goodness, talk about going to the extremes. I'm confused, exactly what are they hoping to accomplish by this:

I mean besides pissing everyone off and making the teachers jobs even harder?

[TiredX2]

does anyone know if the original ban included pentagrams or dreamcatchers or necklaces that depict Mary and Jesus or the like?

I know that you could wear a *small* cross, but don't know about the others.

Are they going to outlaw wigs (if they are trying to ban all alternatives to scarves)? What if you had chemo. I'm glad it's not the US for *once*!

[Meiri]

Apparently they are trying to accomplish the driving of all moderate live-and-let-live Muslims, Jews, Christians, and others to the radical fringes of their faiths as they feel threatened and in need of defending their right to live and freely express themselves in their choices of clothing style and such.

[DashsMama]

OT, but sort of related. I traveled to Turkey a couple years ago. There I learned that Turkey has a very strick prohibition against public servants wearing religious symbols on the job , including head scarves (don't know about children in public schools, or beards). Prostletizing (sp?) is strictly forbidden everywhere. They don't even allow followers of Mevlana Rumi to perform dervishes in public.

Sounds to me like France is trying to implement a similar policy. I'm not saying it's right, and in France's case, I suspect it is all about sticking it to the Muslims. But, and correct me if I'm wrong, hasn't this policy helped stop the spread of extremism in Turkey?

[anothermama]

well, I heard about this on NPR recently.

I actually agree with it, in theory. You either have to let EVERYONE express their faith how they want or no one. Public schools are like that.

I think there is more grey area here...

[merpk]

I don't claim to know much about Turkey ... my aunt and her family are Turkish (she was born there, left as a small child) and talk about it sometimes, and go to visit what relatives are left there ... but I'd guess that it's the ingrained secularism that keeps extremism at bay, as opposed to the assorted anti-religious laws. And there is a big difference there (between secularism and the implementing of anti-religious legislation, that is).

And yes, as a religious person, I can concede that extremists tend to be religious.














Back to France, wondering if that fashionable slightly-unshaven look is also going to be outlawed ... : :LOL

[sadie_sabot]

[mahdokht]

The Turkish hijab ban is tyrannical and yet another demonstration of how our country ignores human rights violations when it suits our purposes. Turkey is NO model of democracy or human rights in the middle east.

Their hijab ban has nothing to do with curbing religious extremism and everything to do with enforcing the cultural/secular extremes of the Turkish military rulers. The Turkish have gone so far as to refuse to admit a democratically elected congresswoman (Merve Kavacki), who wears hijab, into chambers to represent her constituency until she took off her hijab.

They also imprisoned a mother (Nurcihan Saatcioglu) for three years and continue to harrass and repeatedly arrest her daughters because they participated in a demonstration against the hijab ban. For a while she was actually facing the death penalty. Yes, her crime was participating in a NON violent demonstration against government policy that bans women in hijab from wearing hijab at not only public schools universities, but even in Islamic schools.

Now, as far as France. Well they are gonna have to prevent Sikh men from wearing their turbans in public places too. And God only knows what those buddhist monks could have under their long robes, while going into banks and....

[Annoia]

Scratch France off my list of places to visit. Turkey was off a long time ago.

Just wondering ... I travel quite a bit ... is the ban in France like the ban in Turkey? Or is the hijeb (amoung other things) banned everywhere? Like, if I landed in CdG airport in Paris enroute to somewhere else, would the anti-religiouse police nab me?

Saw something about this on CNN (wonderfull place to get your news, right?). They said half of French Muslims agree with the ban. How did they figure that.....?

[merpk]

Umm Ilyas, don't quote me on this, but I think it's only applicable in particular government-run institutions, specifically the schools.

Might also apply at, say, court proceedings, or various other government situations ... and I doubt they'd allow a driver's license applicant to keep on their hair-covering for the picture (if there is one), either ...

[anothermama]

Originally posted by merpk
Umm Ilyas, don't quote me on this, but I think it's only applicable in particular government-run institutions, specifically the schools.

Might also apply at, say, court proceedings, or various other government situations ... and I doubt they'd allow a driver's license applicant to keep on their hair-covering for the picture (if there is one), either ...

Yep...this issue particularly pertains to public schools in France....

[Annoia]

Thanks for the clarification, ladies!

[DashsMama]

Thank you for educating me Mahdokht! I suspected that there might be more to the Turkish religious symbol ban than I understood. While traveling there, our tour guide didn't give us the full picture of many Turkish political issues. I was later told by one of the more educated of my touring companions that our tour guide could have gotten in serious trouble if she had shared information or said things that could have been considered anti-Turkish.