How do I start feeding my dog raw?

[*Eva*]

Title pretty much says it all. I want to start feeding my dog a raw diet once we're done with this bag of food but I'm not sure how to go about it. She's a 110lb 6.5 year old Rottie (she could stand to lose 5lbs but she's not fat by any means) who is a slug. She sleeps on her bed most of the day and goes on a walk around the block twice a day. She has hip dysplasia so we keep her inactive b/c if she isn't she's limping and in pain. Oh and she also doesn't have a spleen if that's relevant to anything. TIA!!!

[Ola_]

First there is the question of what to feed. Do you already know that and are just looking for the "how", or do you want both the "what" and "how" answers?

Just thought I'd ask before launching into a novel.

Off-topic, but are you using any meds/supplements to help with her pain? I would also suggest to get her on the thin side of normal to help with that. Also, steady regular exercise will actually help with this because it will help her build muscle to support her joints better, so keeping her inactive is not necessarily the best course of action.

[mistymama]

It's kinda scary when you first switch - but honestly, it's best to just start. You want to feed her 2-3% of her body weight, a little less if you want her to loose some weight. I would start simple with a chicken leg quarter or something similar and do that for an entire week or two before starting to add new meats into the diet.

Also wanted to add that my Mom began feeding her lab raw a few months ago (right after I switched) and his arthritis has improved GREATLY. He has much more energy & is moving smoothly and like he's in less pain.

[*Eva*]

Originally Posted by Ola_

First there is the question of what to feed. Do you already know that and are just looking for the "how", or do you want both the "what" and "how" answers?

Just thought I'd ask before launching into a novel.

Off-topic, but are you using any meds/supplements to help with her pain? I would also suggest to get her on the thin side of normal to help with that. Also, steady regular exercise will actually help with this because it will help her build muscle to support her joints better, so keeping her inactive is not necessarily the best course of action.

Go for the novel . 105 is actually her skinny size, she's really tall and leggy so anything lower than that and she looks anorexic. She takes glucosamine/chondroitin daily and then take deramaxx if she's in a lot of pain which is honestly only if she's playing with another dog that day which is probably about 3x a year. She probably walks about 1-2 miles a day and then plays in the backyard w/ the kids during the day but anything more than that and she is limping badly for the next couple of days so we try not to let her do too much.

[SophieAnn]

For feeding raw - I would first talk with my vet. Some vets do actually know quite a bit about it and can help you. Or, look for books at your local library. It has become more popular and the public is more aware of the option after the pet food recalls, so your library may even have a good selection of books. Organ meats are important, so are bones as well as the "regular" meat that we would eat.

I have heard that good muscle developement can help compensate for the hips, and the best possible exercise for dogs with hip problems is swimming. There are places for swimming therapy for dogs - there's likely one near you, as I see you're in the Chicago area. It's low-impact exercise that has remarkable benefits.

Are there any reputable Rottie breeders in your area (or even other breeds) that you have contact with? A reputable breeder can be an excellent resource for treatment/management of your furbaby's hips, and also for feeding. Of the reputable breeders I have met, a number of them feed raw too - and I find them to be more than happy to share their knowledge and experience.

[Ola_]

Ok, as the PP mentioned 2-3% of her *ideal* weight is what you should be feeding. If you already know that she is an "easy keeper" (I have one of these) start at the lower end of the scale. Also, that percentage doesn't scale linearly which means that toy dogs often need more like 4-5% of their weight and giant dogs less than 2%. So you are probably looking at about 2 lbs per day or so. We do one meal a day but if you do 2 you would split that amount in half for each feeding.

In the amount you feed the key components are meat, bones, and organs. It varies by dog but the numbers I normally toss around are 70-80% meat, 10-15% bone, and 5-10% organs. If you are a numbers person that may help you figure it out. Otherwise just think of it as "lots" of meat with "some" bone and a "little" organ meat. Keep in mind that for the first few weeks you don't need to feed organs - they have a stool-loosening effect (and on the flip side bone firms stools) so it's best to wait till the dog adjusts to raw before adding in the organs (slowly at first, I'd say a tablespoon or so at a time).

Generally chicken is the popular choice for the first raw food because it's inexpensive, easy to find, and has soft bones (generally the larger the animal, the more dense the bones are). Your best bet is probably chicken leg quarters. If you're buying from the grocery store the package will tell you how much it weighs, then you can divide by the number of pieces to approximate how much you want to feed. There is actually a bit of organ meat usually stuck to the quarters but most dogs are ok with this.

Once you've fed chicken for a week and your pup has nice firm stools and is doing well, I would start adding some of the next protein. Give that a few days and if all is good add the next, etc. My preferred method is to add some of the new meat to a meal of familiar meat - so I would add some boneless pork meat to a chicken leg quarter meal. The key to a good raw diet is variety over time - don't worry about balancing things every single meal or day, just make sure you get all the good stuff in over time. For example my dogs usually get organ meat a couple of times per week - but since they are used to it they can handle it in larger quantities than a new dog could. The proteins that I feed include: chicken, turkey, pork, beef, fish, and lamb - but how much of each sort of varies depeding on what is on sale or what I've bought in bulk.

A few odds and ends I didn't mention before: organ meats (for doggie feeding purposes) include liver, kidney, spleen, etc. but heart is not an organ and should be used as any other muscle meat. I do not feed vegetable matter except as a piece that may "fall off" my cutting board. I don't believe that dogs need veggies or grains, and in fact there are many problems that can be caused when you do feed them. I also think that if you're feeding a good varied diet then you don't need to use all those supplements that some people recommend - we use fish oil capsules but mainly because one of my dogs would rather take a nap beside his fish than eat them (literally!).

I have only found one raw-friendly vet and that was one I specifically searched for - they are very rare. I look for my vet to diagnose and treat medical issues, not give me advice on nutrition. Sadly most vets are all about the scare tactics when it comes to natural diets and would have you believe only large pet food companies are competent enough to feed them correctly. Reminds me a bit of some people doctors. They also often seem to reverse-engineer commercial foods (which may be why they recommend grains, veg, and supplements). A raw-friendly vet, if you can find one, may be an asset in that they often have more hollistic views on vaccines and other medication commonly used for pets.

I'm sorry, it really did turn into a novel! Do feel free to ask ANY questions you have, I've been feeding my dogs raw with great success for about 4.5 years now and have helped a number of people switch. Oh, and chicken feet are an awesome source of glucosamine if you can get past their "dinsaur feet" appearance - you can most often find them in asian or hispanic grocery stores.

[Piglet68]

Hi Ola, I'm jumping in here b/c I too want to feed raw and your post was very clear, concise, and helpful! I have a few more questions...

When you are shopping for meat, what price/lb do you consider reasonable?

Should previously frozen meals be thawed completely or does it matter if some is still a bit icy (I'm guessing the dog may not like it that way?)

Where do you feed your dogs - inside (if so, on what sort of flooring, do you use a mat or other such thing?) or outside (do you have any problems with residue attracting predators - we have bears in our area, not to mention raccoons and skunks)?

How many times a day do you feed and what considerations should you give in this regard?

TIA!

[greenmagick]

Not Ola, but as far as price per pound, I figure anything under 1.00 per lb is good. I get chicken backs for .59/lb and random chicken cuts for around .65/lb which includes a lot of muscle meat. I recently got pork ribs for .89. Now, lamb etc are going to be more.

[Ola_]

The price thing is REALLY area dependent - I know in the US in general the prices are much better than I ever see. I'm near Toronto so there are a lot of asian grocery stores which have good prices ($0.59/lb for pork neck bones, 3 deboned chicken carcasses for $1, organs in the $0.89-0.99/lb range are every day prices there - these are the cheapest on a regular basis). In grocery stores I think $1/lb or less is good, and I will pay up to $2/lb for lamb because it's just more expensive but we don't feed a lot of it.

I've also recently found a couple of people in my general area and was able to buy in bulk in the $0.50/lb range which is amazing I think. It was a couple of hours of driving but I split the gas cost with other raw folks which helped.

I feed my two in their crates. It's the only thing we use the crates for anymore but we have a spare/guest room so they are in there. It makes it easy for me because I can give them their food, go wash my hands, and keep doing whatever (usually making our dinner) while still keeping an ear out for any choking/strange noises. It hasn't happened yet but I'm paranoid. In their crates I'm sure they're not dragging their food anywhere, Chaos isn't stealing Mayhem's food (as she would love too, especially since Mayhem eats slower). When we visit family I feed them in the kitchen or bathroom on the floor, since they are usually easy to clean type surfaces. I either separate them (one in kitchen, one in bathroom), or I just sort of sit between them and keep an eye to make sure no one gets any ideas.

With kibble we fed breakfast and dinner, but once we started raw I realized that it takes longer for them to eat it and I'm one of those snooze-button-hitting people, lol. There isn't the same amount of concern with bloat since the food does not absorb water and expand in the stomach. Also, the bigger the pieces I can give them, the better dental benefits and jaw workout they get (as opposed to making it into 2 smaller pieces). I thought my food-hounds would be upset over the missing meal but they only seemed to notice the first 1-2 days. We feed about 8pm but that's just the time that works best for us.

[mistymama]

As far as finding the best deals - I've found that buying the whole roaster chickens when the bag starts puffing up and they get reduced for quick sale is a really good deal. I can usually get a 6lb roaster chicken for around $4 - dh cuts it up into small pieces for me and for the bonier cuts I'll add chicken hearts for extra meat. This is the majority of our raw meals, although I do also do turkey, pork, liver, fish & the occasional raw egg. It's very economical.

I always feed in his crate because he has a tendency to want to run around the house and chew his wonderful treat on my carpet or even better - the couch! Ugh. So locked in the crate I can keep an eye on him and contain the mess. Then I wipe it down with vinegar/water mixture.

I don't thaw the meats anymore. I did when we first started, but I've found he's able to eat them frozen just fine and does not mind - so I save myself that step. If I can think of it, I will set the food out to thaw a little in advance, but if I don't remember, no big deal. He eats it frozen at least half of the time.

[Slingin'Momto4]

How about feeding a little 15 lb Bichon Frise' raw...how much would she eat? This was a very interesting read and am curious if I could feed her this way....

[Piglet68]

This is awesome info, ladies. Thanks so much!

I live in Vancouver and we have a great chinatown so I will definitely head there for meat!

And I think feeding in the crate will work out really well for us. I also love that I could feed once per day! Now who said this would be complicated?

[mistymama]

Originally Posted by Slingin'Momto4

How about feeding a little 15 lb Bichon Frise' raw...how much would she eat? This was a very interesting read and am curious if I could feed her this way....

I responded in your other thread - but YES, she'll be fine! Our dog is a mini dachshund puppy and has been eating this way for a few months. He's able to eat any part of chicken - thigh, leg, back, wing bones and all. Same with pork necks - you would be surprised, these little dogs may be small, but they were meant to eat like this too.