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He is almost 3, vax now?  

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
We vaxed Konur up until he was a year old, stopped before the MMR and one year boosters. Now that he is 3, I am thinking about vaxing again, especially after learning that thimerasol is no longer used as a preservative. Are they "safer" now? What are the risks to a 3 year old? Are there any benefite? He will have a baby bro or sis in July, should that effect my decision? He is not in daycare and we plan to homeschool, so those are not an issue.
I know there is a lot of research out there, but is there any "in a nut shell" statements? I am still very much against vaxing, but need to know if anything has changed with thimer being taken out.


Yes, I am also getting pressure from my parents who read articles in newspapers that say how internet information is totally wrong. Feeling some pressure to vax. :
post #2 of 13
Quote:
Yes, I am also getting pressure from my parents who read articles in newspapers that say how internet information is totally wrong. Feeling some pressure to vax.
don't bit their bait of fearmongering about the internet...

I hate those stories out there with the blanket, "The Internet is wrong" I know my pediatrician said, "I hope you are not getting your information from the internet."


Frankly at that time, I wasn't. I was getting it from books that I purchased on Amazon. Not some renegade press out of someone's basement.

but really, so many web communities like 909 shot and others are very legit and are spokesperson who go on interviews and our out there so much and are constantly up for critical review...

and there is Congressman Dan Burton and his office...again... very vocal and out there.

I think that the "internet is wrong." blanket statment is used as a fear tactic by some and then just easily repeated by others who don't want to do the work of really researching what the heck is in vax...

childhood diseases have been suppressed and now we have over the top cases of autism, aspargers disease, allergies, add-hd, ashthma, exzema... so many things... and then there are those who will say, "it is because it is easily diagnosed now." at least for autism. NO. not the case. The M.I.N.D. institute associated with University of California DAvis gave a report at the end of 2002 which indicated that autism in Calilfornia is an epidemic level and this is cases that would have been diagnosed in 1950, 1960, 1970, 1980... these are unquestionable cases not middle spectrum .....

anyway, I'm drifting...

listen, for me it is not just mercury. It is among other things aluminum which you will find in many vaxes.

oh, one last thing...

For me, I think the first place to begin is with hard numbers.

Just how many cases of all these vax-diseases do we get here in the united states? (by the way, if you are out of the us I recommend you search your country’s online stats)

This is one of the hardest to find pages at the cdc… the way that I actually found this page was by accident. I had called the CDC to find out about hib cases and I got a doctor and he sent me to this page…

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html

if you download the current issue it gives you the most uptodate stat that the cdc has on the reportable diseases by the way, the stats are at the end of the document. Anyway, I would start there first.


But just to give you an idea:
Here are the hard numbers for 2003. This is what I found for the last week of the year:

Total reported cases to the cdc:

Disease Cases

Diptheria 1
Measles 41
Mumps 186
Rubella 7
Congenital rubella 0
Tetanus 14
Hib (under 5)
Sero b-20
Non sero b-80
Unknown b-178


Out of a population of 280 million people in the united states!


which disease is your family worried about your child getting? And look at those stats..

here is my cheat sheet..if you want more info..

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...threadid=57794


good luck and hugs
tracy



Don't bite the bait.....
post #3 of 13
Hi Lori!

Excellent info from trabot, of course.

Quote:
Yes, I am also getting pressure from my parents who read articles in newspapers that say how internet information is totally wrong. Feeling some pressure to vax.
Don't do it because of pressure from people, no matter who, who tell you they've heard that "internet information is wrong."
The CDC, FDA, and AAP all have information on the internet. So I guess they would say that's all wrong too.

That is one of the stupidest arguments I've heard, and my (ex-)pediatrician used it too. It doesn't make sense! Is it wrong simply because it's on the internet? Have these people looked at the internet??

Anyway, it is NOT just thimerosal, IMO. Aluminum, like trabot said, is frightening.
There is lots of info here, as you know. Maybe just research with the question you asked in mind:
Quote:
Are there any benefite?
See if you find any benefits, anything that makes you think you WANT TO vaccinate. Not fear or pressure, but real, good reasons TO do it.

Good luck!
post #4 of 13
Don't vax because of pressure, vax only because you have decided to for you and your child after taking all information into account.

If someone pressured you to let your child go out in the snow without a coat or not feed your child this or that would you? Take the vax out of the equation and insert anything else and then see how you feel.

Read a book from amazon, go to barnes and noble.com or amazon.com and type vaccination into the search box, a ton of books some even written by MD's come up. Good luck!

And just because they took out mercury doesn't make them okay, there is other crap in them.

Here is a pdf link about the exact contents and the amounts of the chemical in the vax. This is a 2003 current link, there is still thimerosol in a few, the pediatric DT shot and flu shot.
You will need to use the magnifer tool and the first table is on page 2,the second at the bottom of page 3.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...112/6/1394.pdf

Below I dug up links for what each chemical is and how toxic it can be. I also listed some of the vax if you can't get the pdf to work .

This stuff is what concerns me alot and besides my dd's reactions another reason why I am passing up vax for my last baby and any further vax for my older 2.

http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/PH/2-phenoxyethanol.html

phenoxyethanol is in the IPV shot,DTaP shot by 2 different brands,HepA, HepB and the HepA,B twinrix combo shot, it is also in pedirix that new 5-in-1 shot.

Quote from that link:
Toxicology
Harmful if swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through the skin. May cause reproductive defects. Severe eye and skin irritant.

So why is it safe for injection? Even in small amounts I don't see how it is safe. Similar to lead, how is any amount safe in a childs body?

and this:
http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/PH/phenol.html

Phenol is in the samonella and phneumovax 23. That one is very toxic.

Aluminum hydroxide isn't as harmful but still listed as an eye or skin irritant.

http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/AL/aluminium_sulfate.html

Aluminum sulfate is that link above,Harmful by inhalation, ingestion and through skin absorption. May irritate skin. Severe eye irritant

Pediarix contains both al.sulfate and al. phosphate.
Aluminum phosphate pdf
http://www.state.nj.us/health/eoh/rtkweb/0062.pdf
connection to alzheimers
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0819-06.htm

Let's not forget Formaldehyde:
http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/FO/formaldehyde.html

Neomycin which is often used in vax:
http://www.mold-survivor.com/neomycin.htm
Quote:
Neomycin is too toxic for parenteral administration and can only be used for infections of the skin or mucous membranes or to reduce the bacterial population of the colon proir to bowel surgery or in hepatitic failure."--BNF 5 (1983)

parenteral definition:
Parenteral: Entering the body not by the alimentary tract(GI Tract) but rather by another means (such as the subcutaneous, the intramuscular, or often the intravenous route).

from Medterms.com bascially it means by injection so neomycin is too toxic for injection why is it used in vax?? It is used in the MMR, separate Measles, mumps or rubella shots and the rabies shot. Often causes allergic reactions (maybe why my dd had reaction to MMR)

Aluminum containing vax are usually the ones that leave those hard, red hot to the touch lumps on the childs leg at injection site . My dd got those and I didn't know why.
post #5 of 13
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. That's my saying when I think about vaccines. Why would I want to inject a bunch of viruses and disease into my HEALTHY child? Not only that, but NEUROTOXIC additives as well. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Of course I had no idea about vaccines until I took the time to review decades of information. What I know for sure, my parents had 1 dose of 1 vaccine before starting school, smallpox. They are still alive and well. I had about 9 doses, same as my 5 brothers and sisters, we are all alive and well. The following vaccines were not around when I was young:

Hep B
Hib
MMR
varicella
pcv (prevnar)
hep a

Most of those weren't around when my older two were getting vaccinated.

After watching my son born in 1999 suffered several problems after his 3rd round of shots, I stopped there.

My now almost 9 yr old didn't get the boosters required for Kindergarten

My son born in 1999 didn't get anymore beyond that 3rd round (aka 6 mos shots)

My son born in 2002 is vaccine free, and almost 17 months old.

I get a lot of pressure from my dad to vaccinate, but I fear the unknowns of the vaccines more than I fear the knowns of the diseases they are designed to prevent.

Vaccines are designed to trick the immune system, but we have to ask, does the immune system fall for it?

Christine
post #6 of 13
Thread Starter 
My goodness you people are AMAZING!!!!!!

I wouldnt vax because of pressure, but I will research because of it, I do so love to have stats and such to throw back at people.


Trabot, I had found your info on another thread and copied it to a file for future reference and talked to my dh about it! What great info.

Annalily (hi!) great idea about all the organizations who have info out on the web, I will use that one against my Mom next time!

POL, Great stuff, thank-you! Isnt the base of vax some kind of animal? I read the flu vax has guinnea pig DNA in it and bovine something. Do they all have animal parts in them?


Christine, I never thought about what vax my parents had, good point.
post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 
Trabot, those stats are for one week or one year?
post #8 of 13
one year. That was it for 2003.
And by the way, even if those aren't all the cases reported. It is still a small number even if you times it by 10... know what I mean.
considering our population is 280 million.
by the way.. there is a thread I started here called State by State ... you can see if your state is in there and find out how many cases of diseases your state has had....
post #9 of 13
Thread Starter 
thanks! from the way it was worded, it sounded like for one week. I will go see my state link and see where we are.

Oh decisions, decisions!
post #10 of 13
Konor's mom,

yes if they aren't cultured on human diploid cells~from aborted fetal tissue, then they are cultured on animal dna. Usually bovine or chicken. I haven't heard about guinea pig but I wouldn't be surprised.

ETA some also contain yeast proteins, gelatin or egg proteins so if your son is allergic to any of these you probably don't want to get any more vax.
post #11 of 13
Thread Starter 
aborted huh? I take it you are not joking.

I have a vegetarian child and he now has pig, chicken, or some other baby in him?????????? WTF???
post #12 of 13
No sadly I'm not. Provaxers will tell you it's not from current, abortions though to make it sound better : basically in the 1960's they took tissue from aborted fetus' that were from pregnant women who were exposed to rubella and chose to abort. They took those that were infected and used that to create cell lines to culture rubella vax on over and over again for years.
post #13 of 13
When the medium is an aborted fetus, such as in diploid cells, it may be from a spontaneous abortion vs induced abortion.


Here is a paper I did for my daughter's pediatrician:

None of the words are mine though, I filched them all.

What is coming through that needle?

http://www.*********/vaccines/ingredients1.html

For the whole story:

http://www.autismautoimmunityproject.org/

Although the pharma companies say they do not have thimerosal in their vaccines, I would check the physician insert paper. Besides, look at all the other filth that is being injected into an immune system:

DtaP - Lederle Laboratories 1-800-934-5556
produced using formaldehyde, thimerosal, aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, polysorbate 80, gelatin
medium: porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein

Inactivated Polio Vaccine - Connaught Laboratories 1-800-822-2463
produced using 3 types of polio virus, formaldehyde, phenoxyethanol (antifreeze), neomycin, streptomycin, polymyxin B
medium: VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells

HiB - Connaught Laboratories 1-800-822-2463
produced using ammonium sulfate, formalin, sucrose, thimerosal
medium: semi-synthetic
Lederle Laboratories 1-800-934-5556
polyribosylribitol, ammonium sulfate, thimerosal
medium: chemically defined, yeast based

Measles Virus Vaccine Live - Merck & Co, Inc. 1-800-672-6372
produced using neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolized gelatin
medium: chick embryo

MMR - Merck & Co., Inc. 1-800-672-6372
produced using sorbitol, neomycin, hydrolyzed gelatin
mediums: M&M - chick embryo
Rubella - human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)

Hepatitis B - SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals 1-800-633-8900 ext. 5231
produced using aluminum hydroxide, thimerosal
medium: yeast (possibly 5% residual)




For Chemical Profiles and Definitions: www.scorecard.org



What is a Continuous cell line:

Cell cultures consisting of “immortal” or cancerous types because they have no limits on how many times they can divide. There is concern that viral contamination of these cell lines with a pathogen like bovine viral diarrhea virus, could spread cancer-promoting material into the human recipient.

E.g. The virus (which in this case has a single strand of RNA for its genome) is capable of incorporating RNA from the cells in which it has been cultured, into its own genome. If any contaminant RNA virus is present in a culture that contains immortal cancerous cells, this virus can easily mutate to include unwanted oncogenic material, which can then get passed into the biological product intended for human medical use (16).


There is another very important issue... There is obvious evidence that in the lab, continuous immortal cell lines react differently between one type of animal species and another (21, 23). As an example, tissue from one species will allow the immortal cell to induce a cancerous change more quickly, in comparison to tissue from a different species. These results then beg the following questions. How extensively have these continuous cell lines been tested on human tissues, and would the results vary from one type of tissue to another? And what happens over the long term……if an immortal cell from a vaccine culture makes its way into the final vaccine product, does it keep dividing in the human body?

It has taken, for instance, approximately forty years for the scientific community to finally acknowledge that we have a serious problem as a result of the contamination of polio vaccines with simian virus 40 (SV40) in the late 1950s-early 1960s. There has been previous evidence of some human brain and other tumors containing this virus (32, 33)

Other simian viruses may also be contaminating the (Vero) monkey cell lines used for vaccine production. One example from the literature cites the contamination presence of SV20, which is a oncogenic simian adenovirus (38).


These cells are most often fed with a nutrient mix containing in large part, bovine (cow) calf serum (usually, serum extracted from fetal calf blood).This product can carry many types of bovine blood-borne viruses, and is one of the primary sources of vaccine contaminants.

“a potential risk associated with the production and use of biological products is viral contamination. This contamination may be present in the source material, e.g. human blood, human or animal tissues, cell banks, or introduced in the manufacturing process through the use of animal sera...”(1)
most commercially available bovine sera are contaminated with BVDV (bovine viral diarrhea virus) and, although there is no evidence that the virus is infectious, bovine sera should be screened for this virus……for the development or production of vaccine.”(7)
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