OT: 16 and pregnant on MTV - Page 3

[Milkymommi]

Originally Posted by magstphil

I know it's way too much to ask but I wish for once they'd show teen parents who do make it work like my DH and I. For once I would like teen parents to be supported and not put up on the screen as an example of how one's life is ruined I know I know, the fear then is that more teens will get pregnant but you know being a teen parent is hard enough it's even harder when shows like this further the assumption that it's all bad all the time. Then NO ONE is willing to be supportive of mom or dad. That's tough at any age.

.

Yup. Agreed. I get SICK of seeing this very sad potrayal as well. I don't think that showing positive parenting and a healthy outcome of a teen pregnancy/parenting situation is going to "encourage" teen pregnancy at all. The fact of the matter is that it exists, it always will and we need to lead by example not via scare tactics. Truth be told, just because a situation is "healthy" and it is aired on TV does not mean that it isn't still hard. I doubt it would come off as glamorous if the truth was shown. Commitment is hard. Putting one's self aside is hard. Being a GOOD parent is hard. I think it would serve our youth well to see the REALITY of TRUE parenting. Yes, it's tough but boy it's rewarding!! Down with all this disfunctional garbage.

Originally Posted by darcytrue

I had my first child at the age of 27 and was looked at like I was a disgrace because of my height and weight I looked to be about 16/17 at that time. I could really relate to the teen moms I met.

Not only can I relate due to STILL looking like a very young mother... but I actually was a teen mom too. I still feel the pain of stereotyping when I'm out with my children and pregnant, only it has changed some now. These days it's more like, "Look at that young girl with all those children and pregnant again. I'm sure we're supporting them with our tax dollars. I wonder how many of the fathers aren't paying child support?" kwim?

Originally Posted by LavenderMae

I think Farrah's mom was horrible in many ways and one was how she responded to her dd's need for help. Farrah was already being quite responsible with her baby and like all of us just needed a little help, sleep deprivation is so hard. Farrah's mom was with out a doubt punishing her imo.

Isn't it funny... if you're a grown person, your very obvious need for help during the first year is usually met without question. Or at least acknowledged byt those around you. If you're young... suddenly your need for sleep or a break is null and void. You "messed up" so now you have to pay. The fact that this poor girl is 16 and a mother does not make her exempt from needing parenting HERSELF!! She is just a child. It doesn't matter if she made a "grown up" choice or not. She still needs her mom and her mom, of all people, should be there for her to support and teach her how to raise this beautiful babe. Obviously there is a disconnect in her mothers mind. G-d forbid the public see her mother as a push over, right? - punish your teens relentlessly for their stupid mistakes and make sure the rest of America's teens get the message! Please. :Puke What a shame

[holyhelianthus]

Not only can I relate due to STILL looking like a very young mother... but I actually was a teen mom too. I still feel the pain of stereotyping when I'm out with my children and pregnant, only it has changed some now. These days it's more like, "Look at that young girl with all those children and pregnant again. I'm sure we're supporting them with our tax dollars. I wonder how many of the fathers aren't paying child support?" kwim?

We're 23 and on our 4th anf 5th. Needless to say yeah I get ya!

I do have to disagree with a 16 year old being a child though. I don't believe a 16 year old to be a child and I think that them being viewed as such has created a lot of issues and continues to fuel the fire against teen parents.

[1littlebit]

Originally Posted by magstphil

We're 23 and on our 4th anf 5th. Needless to say yeah I get ya!

I do have to disagree with a 16 year old being a child though. I don't believe a 16 year old to be a child and I think that them being viewed as such has created a lot of issues and continues to fuel the fire against teen parents.

: it seems to be a popular belief that child is anyone under the age of 25... we keep people kids longer and longer... its sort of unnatural

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by 1littlebit

: it seems to be a popular belief that child is anyone under the age of 25... we keep people kids longer and longer... its sort of unnatural

It also leads to what we view as a society as "reckless" and "rebellious" behavior when in truth they are just acting their age. We have created the problem and the epidemic for ourselves by our very definitions of adulthood and childhood. If we'd just quit treating them like and expecting them to be babies we wouldn't have these issues!

[Milkymommi]

Originally Posted by magstphil

I do have to disagree with a 16 year old being a child though. I don't believe a 16 year old to be a child and I think that them being viewed as such has created a lot of issues and continues to fuel the fire against teen parents.

Well I suppose I understand that but at the same time I was 16 once... and thought myself quite mature. Truthfully, I was. But now I'm 30 and I can see that I could have used some serious caring guidance coming from a loving source. I think if a person is still in highschool and not of legal age then it's our responsibility as adults to make sure we provide safety, guidance and love for them still. Some kids won't need it as teen parents... some do. Just saying. 16 is certainly not an adult but I suppose not a literal child either. I'll rephrase - young person/teenager, not fully experienced and some of whom may still need a hand in life considering most ( though not all ) have not even had the chance to spread their wings beyond their respective homes, neighborhoods and highschools.

I certainly don't want to be part of fueling any fire against teen parents considering I was one I'd just love to see the overall attitude of our country change in several areas. One being that just because a teen is a capable parent, mature and responsible doesn't take away from the fact that teens aren't always going to be as emotionally prepared for the challenges that will come and the adults around them need to be sympathetic, understanding and supportive without taking away from the pride of the teen parent. In other words... not punishing them inadvertantly at every opportunity by refusing to do the same things we adults do for eachother as well as being willing to offer a little "parenting" to the parent when needed but not in a put down or belittling sort of way.

Does that make sense? I guess I'm just trying to look at the broad reality here.

[holyhelianthus]

Everything you said can be said for a 25 year old a 30 year old a 40 year old and on and on. We will always be maturing and learning and growing. Now I am not saying we need to kick them out the door but I am saying we need to treat them like they are capable of living their lives which they are. EVERYONE needs love and support regardless of age. One of my biggest issues with society is that we are all expected to go it alone. No one should have to especially when trying to birth and care for babies.

But like I said I do think 16 is an adult and should be treated like one. Is that to say they are emotionally stable? I'm not sure I know anyone who is perfectly emotionally stable. Are they fully experienced? Well who in the world is? But you know some 16 year olds do have more experience than some 30 year olds. I just don't think age should be the ultimate indicator for all things. Yes some 16 year olds are severely immature but so is my nearing 50 mother.

ETA- as I said in my PP we have created this reality. A lot of teens are shirking their responsibilities because we as a society have taken them from them and told them they were just children. If you treat someone like a child they are going to act like it in a lot of ways.

[Milkymommi]

Originally Posted by magstphil

It also leads to what we view as a society as "reckless" and "rebellious" behavior when in truth they are just acting their age. We have created the problem and the epidemic for ourselves by our very definitions of adulthood and childhood. If we'd just quit treating them like and expecting them to be babies we wouldn't have these issues!

Age is really just a number... however, I think it's pretty easy to see when an individual needs to be given grace for their behaviors when they are young. My calling a 16 year old a child is out of total compassion for a situation where a young person still may need to have those graces extended when they lose it due to immaturity. Heck, we all lose it sometimes but add being 16 to the things that drive an adult nutso and that can spell major stress.I just know that teens are battling hormonal changes and social drama etc. and most haven't really concerned themselves with the perils of adulthood. When met with these challenges MANY rise to the occasion and should be applauded : ... but need to know that in those young human moments when they just can't deal, they need to know it's ok to be young. We that are older and more experienced are supposed to be there and sadly, so many teen parents get hung out to dry as examples to their teen counterparts A shamefull way imo to "parent" a teen parent. Whether leaving them to their own mature devices so as not to insult their maturity or being all over them like they're incapable... it's all still leading by example which is what parenting is.

All that to say, we can't put a number on what constitutes the end of being a "child" but the obvious time in most peoples lives where they need the most grace seems like the time of transition from about 15 to 18. Everyone is different.

[Milkymommi]

Originally Posted by magstphil

Everything you said can be said for a 25 year old a 30 year old a 40 year old and on and on. We will always be maturing and learning and growing. Now I am not saying we need to kick them out the door but I am saying we need to treat them like they are capable of living their lives which they are. EVERYONE needs love and support regardless of age. One of my biggest issues with society is that we are all expected to go it alone. No one should have to especially when trying to birth and care for babies.

But like I said I do think 16 is an adult and should be treated like one. Is that to say they are emotionally stable? I'm not sure I know anyone who is perfectly emotionally stable. Are they fully experienced? Well who in the world is? But you know some 16 year olds do have more experience than some 30 year olds. I just don't think age should be the ultimate indicator for all things. Yes some 16 year olds are severely immature but so is my nearing 50 mother.

ETA- as I said in my PP we have created this reality. A lot of teens are shirking their responsibilities because we as a society have taken them from them and told them they were just children. If you treat someone like a child they are going to act like it in a lot of ways.

BTW... I think we're actually agreeing but focusing on different areas. I totally agree with all that you're saying so I don't want you to get me wrong at all!! I'm just emphasizing the grace factor since so many parents just shove their teens off and refuse to be of any help.

[Kylix]

*double post*

[Kylix]

Developmentally, I don't think a 16 year old is an adult. A 16 year old is not developmentally the same as a 30 year old, 40 year old, 50, 60, 70 etc. There is scientific evidence to support that the prefrontal cortex of the brain (which guides executive functions like planning, organizing, critical thinking) does not finish developing until the mid 20s.

The reason that "adulthood" keeps getting pushed back further and further is that developmental stages change across time, culture, evolution etc. Brain development is changing with us as a species.

Of course, there are individual differences. Different people develop at different rates. There may be some 16 year olds ready to take on adult responsibilities like raising a child. I do not think (based on scientific research as well as good old personal experience) that most are however.

[holyhelianthus]

Yet time has proven that wrong. It wasn't until recently we as a society decided 16 was too young not only to have children but to have much responsibility at all. And it's our society- there are plenty of regions in this world where 16 is "old enough".

The thing is we are continually developing so to say because they haven't reached that level or are still developing just isn't a stable argument. If that were the case than no one is truly ready (well, I suppose that is a little true ) because we could just keep adding to that list. But the thing that gets me the most with the development argument is that it can be turned into something very dangerous "no no honey you are not nearly developed enough let me take that baby for you so s/he is safe" That gives me the shudders and you know people are already trying to convince teen parents of this.

As for evolution- it seems to me that staying immature and incapable longer would be a sign of devolving not evolving. How would that serve to further the species? No I don't think it has anything to do with evolution I think it has to do with what society has prescribed for us.

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by Milkymommi

BTW... I think we're actually agreeing but focusing on different areas. I totally agree with all that you're saying so I don't want you to get me wrong at all!! I'm just emphasizing the grace factor since so many parents just shove their teens off and refuse to be of any help.

Sorry I missed this earlier.

Yes I agree. This is a problem in our society as a whole- the "everyman for himself" way. We feel everyone must be independent or we're doing it wrong so we sort of give them the boot.

[1littlebit]

the other thing about being young is people seem to think that you are required to take the advice they give you b/c you are young so they are right by default. tis very obnoxious.

and i think that as far as development goes... teen parents who have good solid support often do very well where as teens with out support (obviously) have more of a struggle. i think this applies to any parent though... if you have zippo support your going to have a harder time yk? but if it were a developmental thing i don't think support would make that much of a difference.

[Kylix]

Originally Posted by magstphil

Yet time has proven that wrong. It wasn't until recently we as a society decided 16 was too young not only to have children but to have much responsibility at all. And it's our society- there are plenty of regions in this world where 16 is "old enough".

The thing is we are continually developing so to say because they haven't reached that level or are still developing just isn't a stable argument. If that were the case than no one is truly ready (well, I suppose that is a little true ) because we could just keep adding to that list. But the thing that gets me the most with the development argument is that it can be turned into something very dangerous "no no honey you are not nearly developed enough let me take that baby for you so s/he is safe" That gives me the shudders and you know people are already trying to convince teen parents of this.

As for evolution- it seems to me that staying immature and incapable longer would be a sign of devolving not evolving. How would that serve to further the species? No I don't think it has anything to do with evolution I think it has to do with what society has prescribed for us.

People today are just different than people a hundred years ago. Our life span is longer. There was a time when a 40 year old was akin to a 60 year old. I think age has changed. Development has not. We still go through the same developmental stages but they are expanding...I have no evidence of that however.

In terms of brain development, the brain DOES stop developing. Development is NOT the same thing as learning! Development is the maturity/stage of a system. To say that the brain stops developing is not to say that we ever stop making connections between brain cells but instead that the brain is still growing until the mid-20s and then it stops. The brain of a teenager responds differently to cognitive tasks than the brain of young adults (mid-20s and up) in experiments where scientists can look at brain imaging.

I don't think people should give teen parents a hard time. I think teens should have a lot of guidance and support. BUT, I do not recommend that teens have children. They are developmentally NOT adults.

Kylix

[FondestBianca]

did anyone else shake their head and want to barf when the girl's mom reinforced to her daughter that if she breastfed her boobs would be saggy?

Looks like the girl took her mom's word over the doctor's. The doctor commented, "no, pregnancy makes your boobs saggy, not breastfeeding." That also wasn't exactly accurate but, I think the doc was trying to say that if there was going to be any effect on her breasts it would be too late, so she might as well go ahead and breastfeed as it won't make her breasts more saggy. Saggy or not, that was a sad reason not to BF. I didn't really get upset at the girl like I would have in the past. I was more so upset with the doc for not encouraging the girl to see a lactation speaicalist to speak to her about the benifits of BF and help educate her about even the very basics and VERY upset at the mother for being so nasty and discouraging over something like saggy boobs .

I really felt for the young momma when she so nicely, so politely, so calmly asked her mom if she could help her out a bit at night (after many, many nights of doing it all by herself) only for her mom to shoot her a disapproving, "you made your bed, now you lie in it" look, and tell her no. If in her position I wouldn't be too keen on taking over all of the responsibilities or even a majority of my grandchild's needs but, I certainly think that my own love and need to take care of my own daughter would be enough to make me willing to give up restful sleep here and there to allow my daughter to stay healthy, sane, and feel supported. Immature or not, that girl should have recieved a great deal more support. The poor thing was even scared to tell her mom that she wanted to keep her own baby... then was met with her mother's doubt, rolling eyes, and negativity. I agree that young people with unplanned pregnancy (or planned for that matter) shouldn't be spared the warning of how difficult it will probably be but, for crying out loud why doesn't anyone share with them the rewarding, impowering, joyful side too!? I mean, if shes already pregnant why not make motherhood seem like a good thing so she will go into it feeling strong as well as prepared?

and someone needs to give the girl a darn hug already!!

[holyhelianthus]

People today are just different than people a hundred years ago.

And even teens 50 years ago- which is entirely my point. Adulthood has much more to it than where are brains are developmentally. We cannot base it solely on that.

ETA- I am in no way recommending to any age group to start having children. Just because I feel 16 year olds are a lot more capable then they are given credit doesn't mean I'm saying "so start having kids" nor do I believe adulthood is just about having children. I'm simply saying 16 is not a child. Not by a long shot. They are young adults- emphasis on young.

[StoriesInTheSoil]

Okay, I admit that I'm in a bad mood right now and sleepy and feeling a bit cross but are ANY of these girls even going to freaking CONSIDER breastfeeding?! I mean for goodness sake. I am mad. There should be some breastfeeding PSAs during the airing of the show.

[darcytrue]

Originally Posted by tinyactsofcharity

Okay, I admit that I'm in a bad mood right now and sleepy and feeling a bit cross but are ANY of these girls even going to freaking CONSIDER breastfeeding?! I mean for goodness sake. I am mad. There should be some breastfeeding PSAs during the airing of the show.

I agree. It would be nice to see. I have 3 neices that are in their early to mid 20's who automatically opted for formula as soon as they find out they are pregnant. They all have one child and one of the neices is pregnant again and due around the same time that I am. They all had Medicaid so I know they have the information given to them because it's mandatory in our state for Medicaid to give breastfeeding classes to the pregnant mother in the last trimester. Unfortunately, they all have to work and go back to school while tending to the baby and feel formula is easiest.

I don't think people should give teen parents a hard time. I think teens should have a lot of guidance and support. BUT, I do not recommend that teens have children. They are developmentally NOT adults.

I agree in a way. Teens these days are much more immature compared to the teens many years ago. My aunt/uncle were married at 15/17 and they raised their children wonderfully and were young grandparents (a plus!). I've seen and met a lot of wonderful teen moms (and dads) over the years. So they definitely aren't all the same and some are cut out to be great parents from a young age. But I agree that for the most part teens in this day and time are not as mature as they used to be.

[darcytrue]

Originally Posted by Milkymommi

Well I suppose I understand that but at the same time I was 16 once... and thought myself quite mature. Truthfully, I was. But now I'm 30 and I can see that I could have used some serious caring guidance coming from a loving source.

I agree with this. I think about it sometimes how when I was 16 what if I would have gotten pregnant. Back then I took precautions and put myself on birth control at 15 because I disliked children so much, lol, and my long time boyfriend ended up being sterile anyway. I thought I was smart back then but now at the age of 40 I know I probably wouldn't have done a good job at 16, definitely wouldn't have homeschooled, co-slept and been as good as a mom as I am now since I would have been a single mom and struggled a lot. But who knows. I may be wrong.

Most people I know from my teens (in the 80's) who had children young ended up raising them on formula, put them in daycare and then public school, never married or divorced young, worked and didn't have time for their kids and now at 40 they are re-living their younger years while I'm settled down as a mother. Plus, it's odd but most of the people I knew who had a child as a teenager never had anymore children. AND they are all always the first to tell me I'm crazy to be having child # 3 right now at 40 or a child # 3 at all. I think having children so early in life messed them up.

[1littlebit]

i had my first at 20. i am not married but i am in a committed and loving relationship with my sons father. ds does get formula but thats primarily from lack of information and support. i weaned him b/c i didn't think i could BF on my medication. i'm a SAHM who spends the vast majority of time with my son and we are currently buying a house and are looking forward to having another baby after we are settled.

i don't think daycare or public school have anything do with age. i was a nanny for the infants of two different families both in their late thirties whose kids both went to daycare when they turned one. one of them (whose mother was working on her PHD in infant and child development) weaned at 3 months and told me BM was only beneficial until 3 mos. the other one BF and pumped for well over a year. some people prefer public schools for a reason. we don't know what we will do yet.. i am probably doing to homeschool for at least a few years... but after that we don't know yet.

since i am the only young mom the vast majority of my friends know i suppose they would say that age doesn't matter as much as some would think. i made a decision when i found out i was pg. i chose to do things the way i do... so does every woman who gets pg. a pg woman in her 30's could just as easily decide that ff is easier, daycare is necessary for socialization, and public schools are the best and most cost effective option.