parenting, to each their own or up for debate? - Page 7

[SandraS]

4inmyheart is speaking of spanking and CIO, I believe. I think she takes the same stance as most of us - what you feed your kid and how you sleep is up to you, but when it crosses the line to what we believe is abuse, we will speak up.

4inmyheart, if I'm wrong... correct me!

[1littlebit]

i don't know why it has to be fighting... why can't we all just talk about things and share ideas and info without it being a huge deal?

i mean if someone gives you parenting advice why is it so bad to ask them why they recommend it?

if you have a pg friend why is it wrong to offer books, ideas, your experience, support or w/e without it being construed as a declaration of war?

o and fwiw i agree about RIC.... its not an opinion and there is a right answer.

[1littlebit]

Originally Posted by SandraS

4inmyheart is speaking of spanking and CIO, I believe. I think she takes the same stance as most of us - what you feed your kid and how you sleep is up to you, but when it crosses the line to what we believe is abuse, we will speak up.

4inmyheart, if I'm wrong... correct me!

: and really with spanking, circ, cio and such it is parents making choices for another human being, a human being who has no control over the choices of their parents. who protects them? the law doesnt... spanking is legal... there is no one to speak for children who are being subject to what is essentially legalized assault and cosmetic surgery.

[4inMyHeart3inArms]

You referenced the patriotic comment, which was made by me, and I was not someone who was saying anything about feeding a baby solids or whether one breastfeeds or formula feeds, etc. The patriotic comment I made was in reference to the fact that we decided (after people speaking up, not after people "minding their own business) that all people - including women and people of color, and even animals - had a right to a certain kind of humane treatment that does not involve hurting someone against their consent - and that is not extended to children and so yes, I do think its patriotic to speak up about that subject in effort to bring about change. I think that when you see someone physically hurting a child in a way that is not an accetable way to treat other humans or animals that is is perfectly acceptable to speak up.

[4inMyHeart3inArms]

thank you two ladies who understand what I am saying

[UhOhWhatNow]

I am not sure I'd actually say something, but I have a hard time with seeing CIO or spanking (and circ, too!). I was at a baby shower recently, and there was a three year old who reached up and just gently touched the diaper "cake" (So cute!) a guest had made. The child's mother without any hesitation grabbed him by the arm and wacked his butt- hard. It made me very upset. I had just given birth days before, and maybe that made me more emotional. I honestly had to really focus to not say anything.

I would comment on a car seat issue, though politely. I hate seeing people take an infant in a Taxi cab without a carseat! I see that a lot.

I comment about MY great natural birth and my breast feeding, and if someone says she wants to try but is scared, I share encouraging but honest info. But I'm not rude or pushy about those issues- they ARE personal choices.

To me, though spanking a child, beating on a dog, keeping dogs outside/chained (or in very hot weather), or letting dogs ride in the back of a pick up truck loose, or not using a car seat with your child- those things in MY PERSONAL opinion are abuse, and it's hard for me not to try to educate the person.

[1littlebit]

Originally Posted by UhOhWhatNow

I am not sure I'd actually say something, but I have a hard time with seeing CIO or spanking (and circ, too!). I was at a baby shower recently, and there was a three year old who reached up and just gently touched the diaper "cake" (So cute!) a guest had made. The child's mother without any hesitation grabbed him by the arm and wacked his butt- hard. It made me very upset. I had just given birth days before, and maybe that made me more emotional. I honestly had to really focus to not say anything.

you have amazing self control. i think i might have just reacted and grabbed her hand... not something i would normally do but jeez its a cake for goodness sake not priceless art.. people are going to eat it.

[4inMyHeart3inArms]

it was a diaper cake - people weren't even going t eat it, it was eventually going to be taken apart, put on a babies bum, and pooper on. hehehe

[1littlebit]

i was thinking a cake that looked like a diaper!

[4inMyHeart3inArms]

HEHEHE that would be cute!!

[EdnaMarie]

To me, spanking is physical violence and it's always appropriate to intervene, though it depends on who's spanking and where, as to how you do it.

CIO is something that is worth addressing with someone you know well.

Vaccinations- if the other party brings it up, I will state my point of view in the most concise, humorous, and open way possible.

Breastfeeding- No, because you never know the "secret" reasons that someone might not be breastfeeding, like some kind of trauma. Though, I might ask, "Are you going to pump or use formula for the first six months?" Just to open up the possibility.

Of course, if someone ASKED my opinion, that would be different.

And yeah, never to a total stranger, except spanking. Funny how on Oprah and whatever they have those things where you see a man beating or threatening a woman, and they see what others do, but they don't have it for kids.

[EdnaMarie]

some people with 5 kids don't know which part of a child is up.

nak

just saw that

rofl, SO TRUE

[KirstenMary]

Originally Posted by Tigerchild

Um, okay. So this thread has no morphed into a "If you say live and let live you are unpatriotic and you would just stand by and let someone beat the crap out of their kids and abuse them?"

That's ridiculous.

I'm sorry, but the POLL talks about things like when to introduce solids, babywearing, ect. The only abusive choice I see is spanking and CIO (but then again, definition of 'CIO' are important).

I have been an emergency placement foster parent. I've worked in the social services field. I believe that I have done a lot of standing in the gap and helping children who needed protection and shelter from abuse and neglect.

I still feel that when it comes to PARENTING issues, vs. abuse issues, having seen genuine abuse and other unmentionable things I am MORE likely now to be able to hold my tongue and not turn every little pet issue into a hill to die on.

I've directly intervened in parking lots, schools, ect to prevent a child being hit. And yet I STILL SAY that when it comes to run of the mill parenting issues most of the time it's not worth confronting and preaching at people. And I think people who turn every thing into a Huge Honkin' Deal are making a big mistake.

God, yes.

Originally Posted by 4inMyHeart3inArms

and once it was the opinion that black people should be slaves. once it was someones opinion that men should be allowed to hit their wives. I think when we are talking about physically harming another persons body against their that the laws should be applied across the board. Not "its not okay to treat a human or animal this way - UNLESS they are under 18" I mean WTH is that about, really?

Apples and oranges. And my friends, the Cohens, would totally disagree.

Originally Posted by ShadowMom

I think it takes a fair amount of arrogance to assume that you are right about something and other people just need to be educated.... and if only they were educated, they would do things your way.

That is the belief we all seem to secretly hold, but it's not true.

There are EXTREMELY few situations where parenting is either RIGHT or WRONG. It sure seems that way when you think that you're right and the other person is wrong, but it's simply not the case. Parenting is not an absolute and making parenting decisions requires careful examination and treatment of subjects that frequently do not have clear cut answers.

I strongly support breastfeeding - VERY strongly. And have always been a passionate advocate for it (well, always meaning since I had a baby). However, there are moms who share their stories and technically (by our definition) "chose" to formula feed, but given their circumstances (which can really be extenuating) that really did seem to be the best option for them.

The same applies to so many other parenting decisions.

Part 2 is this - let's say there was a right and wrong for every parent no matter what. You have to also believe that it is your job to educate and correct the world. I disagree with that being the case. I cannot imagine it really accomplishing much unless it's done in a pretty careful and respectful way. Pointing out to other people where they've gone wrong is a very common thing and it mainly serves to validate our own existence and distract us from the real problem - ourselves. We all have things we could focus on and do so much better and instead of preaching to people who may not be receptive to your message, instead you can look at ways you can improve and all you have to do is be receptive to that message.

I suppose I agree that intervening in others' lives, with the idea that we know what's best for them, is very patriotic, in the sense that it seems to be a very American attitude. I disagree that it is a good one however.

Another God, yes!!!!

Originally Posted by Tigerchild

What in the world does this have anything to do with whether or not you tell people that when they should feed solids to their children or vaccinate them?

How are you getting that people are saying that slavery and domestic violence is okay because they don't feel the compulsion to offer unsolicited parenting advice to everyone?

I think I'm bugging out of this thread, this has veered a little too much into extremeland for me. I still think that fighting and debating with people over their parenting is likely to be counterproductive than anything else. This does not mean I condone violence or slavery, because I don't. If it's dangerous, then call the cops or CPS or intervene directly yourself. If it's perhaps not "best" but isn't abuse or neglect (like formula feeding), then if you don't call everyone out who isn't doing everything exactly to your standards, it doesn't mean that you condone domestic violence and would prefer to still be living under Jim Crow.

Seriously WTF?

Ditto.

Originally Posted by 1littlebit

i don't know why it has to be fighting... why can't we all just talk about things and share ideas and info without it being a huge deal?

i mean if someone gives you parenting advice why is it so bad to ask them why they recommend it?

if you have a pg friend why is it wrong to offer books, ideas, your experience, support or w/e without it being construed as a declaration of war?

o and fwiw i agree about RIC.... its not an opinion and there is a right answer.

I despise unsolicited advice because the person giving it "knows" they are right and I am wrong. And because of this, I don't give unsolicited advice.

Lemme ask you this...

I mentioned my coworker who had just returned to work (her first day back), and she mentioned that she was FFing by choice. How many of you would have tried to "educate" her right then and there?

[SandraS]

Originally Posted by KirstenMary

I mentioned my coworker who had just returned to work (her first day back), and she mentioned that she was FFing by choice. How many of you would have tried to "educate" her right then and there?

I wouldn't have said word one about it. Even though I breastfed, and I know it's best, I do understand others have challenges - be it physical or mental or otherwise - and I don't think FF is the devil. To be frank. It's not the best, but it's not abuse either.

[Swan3]

I agree that presentation and approach are everything in this case. The only ones I would comment on or challenge someone on are CIO & spanking. As far as BF, my two closest friends have gone through such enormous challenges (BF after reduction, mother losing too much blood and being on heavy medications after delivering a preemie) on this front that I would be cautious about how to approach it. With them, because I LOVE them, I encouraged encouraged encouraged and let them know I was THERE for them, any time of the day or night if they needed me and left it at that unless they called me for help. Really, what good is a sermon if you aren't able to offer some help?

I think as much as we focus on gently disciplining and communicating things to our children, in matters with adults a gentle and respectful approach should also be taken, otherwise the defensiveness could just make things worse (like in the case of spanking).

[UhOhWhatNow]

I wouldn't say anything to someone I didn't know VERY well about her choice to FF. If it was my best friend, I'd say, "Hey, just wondering... love you to pieces... have you considered breast feeding?" because yeah, it's a choice. FF is not abuse! If she said she was interested but (fill in blank) if I had some tips I would share them.

Like I said above, I didn't even say anything to the woman who hit her child for touching a "cake" (not a real cake) made out of diapers (yes, disposable! LOL). I did lean over and say something to my husband, and I did hug my baby against my chest and hurt inside for that child who gets hit like that for simply doing what kids do- explore.

But I was not about to stand up at a baby shower where the only person I knew was the pregnant mom (not the one hitting her child) and start a fight with a woman who knew everyone else there! Mainly, do you really think it would stop her from doing it? I doubt it. And her child didn't seem phased (not sure if that upsets me more or less!). This incident was not worthy of involving the law, and I would have only probably ruined my friend's baby shower by commenting.

If I see a dog without water routinely, I report it animal control... because it's abuse as defined by myself and the law.

If I saw a child being beaten (and there is a difference IMO between spanking and beating even though I hate both) I would call 911. That is entirely different from saying to someone when circumstances allow, "Have you tried time outs? I never had any success with spanking (which is a true statement if you don't spank ) or something.

Vaccinations, I'd never comment. Charged issue, and I in no way think it's abuse to vaccinate, even if I wouldn't give a certain vaccine.

CIO I agree depends. How you present something is hugely important. No one who means well or just doesn't know any better wants to be called an abuser. I learned how to handle these delicate situations a lot in dog rescue. Get on their level- relate to them. "I understand. Damn, last night I got NO sleep!!! I so wanted to just walk away!!!" mom to mom... then maybe, "But I just read a study about babies crying and giving up and how it can affect them, so I ended up trying this new white noise CD and walking around with my baby in the sling and it worked! Want to borrow mine?" or something. I've done things like that. I can't change someone's view of the world but I can try to offer helpful advice. We all have various ideas of what constitutes abuse, but at some point the law wins.

Alienating someone removes ANY chance you ever had of influencing her in a positive way.

[4inMyHeart3inArms]

exactly. Dogs, Men, Woman, and Adults of all races are apples. And children are oranges.

At one time anyone who wasn't a white male were oranges too. Now they are considered as human as the white male, while the children remain oranges. They aren't really oranges though. They are apples that were put in an orange basket.

[SandraS]

Originally Posted by 4inMyHeart3inArms

exactly. Dogs, Men, Woman, and Adults of all races are apples. And children are oranges.

At one time anyone who wasn't a white male were oranges too. Now they are considered as human as the white male, while the children remain oranges. They aren't really oranges though. They are apples that were put in an orange basket.

That made me giggle.

[4inMyHeart3inArms]

I personally dont think its funny that people hit children.

[4inMyHeart3inArms]

Originally Posted by KirstenMary

Lemme ask you this...

I mentioned my coworker who had just returned to work (her first day back), and she mentioned that she was FFing by choice. How many of you would have tried to "educate" her right then and there?

Not me. If she was supplementing because she felt she had supply issues I would support her with education. If she was pregnant and told me she was weighing her option I would support her. If in saying she was FF by choice she put down breastfeeding I would share why I chose it and how it worked for me. But otherwise no I wouldn't educate her. Though I might ask why she chose that, but not in a judgmental way. If she gave a reason like "oh I just thought it would be too hard. I might say "for some people it is, and for some its not. you could always give it a try if you think you might want to and thats the only thing holding you back" Really you have to feel out a situation. Some people are FFing by choice because they felt it was the only choice they really had.