Anyone share my fears? - Page 2

[claddaghmom]

Originally Posted by 13Sandals

OMG! That does it - I'm getting my kids' passports!

Yes, I was especially affected by this emotional account from a Holocaust survivor:

http://www.amazon.com/Night-Elie-Wie...5361255&sr=8-4

Up until reading this book, I had read so much dry stuff that the emotional part of things was a bit stunted. It was a huge blow to read it.

In the beginning, the boy's friend survives being shot and shoved into a mass grave. He runs back to warn the town and is ignored and shunned as crazy. Even later, when some of his family could escape, they make a pact to stay together. IIRC only the author and maybe one of his sisters survive.

This one has more information:
http://www.amazon.com/Night-Trilogy-...5361442&sr=1-1

[ss834]

Originally Posted by Marnica

That's not entirely true...more and more health plans are covering ND's and other "alternative" practitioners such as chiropractors. My insurance covers these folks and if it didn't Id be screwed so I am thankful that they are covered. I doubt these type of folks would be covered by government run health coverage...

Medicaid covered my homebirth midwife (CPM) with no problem. I think it's just a matter of people standing up and demanding the coverage-- esp if the gov't gets control of healthcare.

[chaoticzenmom]

I'm not scared. I truly think that Obama is a good person who sees reason when presented with it. I don't think that the gov't giving us healthcare is leading us down a path to Dictatorship. People sitting on their asses and not saying what they want is what may lead us there though.

That said...If it became mandated and I had no "out," I'd forge the shot records and move to France There's no out there either,but it wouldn't be the first time I've done it.

[artgoddess]

Originally Posted by becca_howell

Not to get off topic, but I think that is the misconception about the "uninsured" in the US. Of the 6 million "uninsured" in CA, over half of them are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! Ha!

um...would you care to provide some sort of back up for this claim?

Originally Posted by becca_howell

Also, being "uninsured" isn't that bad. If you don't have a chronic health condition or if you are one who avoids doctors at all costs, you don't need health insurance. Besides, most health insurances don't cover holistic/naturopathic doctors.

or if you say break a bone and a simple ER trip, x-rays, bone set, cast and follow up with orthopedist costs you $25,000 out of pocket, which means trying to take a second out on your home, if you are lucky enough to still have one in this state, rather than loose it to the hospital bills.

[mysticmomma]

Originally Posted by MrsJez

President Obama was also noted as stating that he is AGAINST choice when it comes to vaccinations.

Do you have a source for that?

[Cristiaz]

Originally Posted by 13Sandals

I do fear this scenario and feel its quite possible. Right now in this country we have a boy being force fed chemo against his and his family's wishes. The government owns this child, but suffers no consequence if the boy dies from his treatment or ends up with a chronically impaired immune system. We also have our health secretary preparing us NOW for vaccine clinics in our schools come fall. Exemptions will not carry weight during epidemic and pandemic situations. Why do you think they passed legislation in 2006 absolving pharma from all liability from vaccines during pandemic situations. There is something big in the works - I hope they won't be able to pull it off, but the possibility is there.

I don't spend too much time worrying about it, but I am ready to leave everything, this country if I have to.

I couldn't of said it better myself. In my mind, it is up to me and me alone (well, my husband too) how our daughter is taken care of. I carried her inside me, had a homebirth for her safety as well as my own, and have never vaxed her, for her safety and in respect for her body. No one else should have the right to make decisions about her health but me. This case with the child with chemo has really freaked me out and Obama's not helping either. The three vaxes that will be administered this fall will kill and injure alot of people...there's no way around it. You know that little babies will be injected with all 3 and the same time and when something goes wrong, the blame will go elsewhere. On the CDC's website you can read that during an epidemic, all laws go out the window and they can mandate vaxes.

My plan is to gather up as much bulk foods as possible and store it away in case there is an "epidemic" and we are not allowed to leave with out vaxes. That way, we'll just hang out in the safety of our house until the craziness is over. Maybe I sound crazy, but its better to be prepared than unprepared.

[chaoticzenmom]

Originally Posted by artgoddess

um...would you care to provide some sort of back up for this claim?






or if you say break a bone and a simple ER trip, x-rays, bone set, cast and follow up with orthopedist costs you $25,000 out of pocket, which means trying to take a second out on your home, if you are lucky enough to still have one in this state, rather than loose it to the hospital bills.

Or, like in our case, your child breaks a bone and then they find a heartproblem at the ER and send them by ambulance to a children's hospital to spend the night in ICU...and then have followups to cardiologists and for the broken arm. That sent my insurance company into a fit, sending me letters trying to figure out if there was any way they didn't have to pay it. My portion alone was about 2000 just for the overnight stay....not even counting the 2 and 3hundred here and there that we had to pay for who knows what during that ordeal. It was a lot.

[MoonWillow]

Lets keep on topic so the thread can stay on the board.
Thanks

[artgoddess]

Originally Posted by becca_howell

It's bad enough that we need a "religious exemption" to get our kids in school (if we choose to public/private school), then Florida comes out with this "Florida Shots" tracking system that registers kids with the state so they know what shots they have had/still need (ha ha, DS's FS record is blank). Then I hear about Obama's plans for government-run health care...

My worst fear (related to vaccinating) is that this health care reform he is toting gets passed, all health care is regulated by the federal government, and we become felons for refusing to vaccinate our kids, and while we're in prison CPS takes it upon themselves to "play catch-up" on our kids vaccines.

Share my fears? Care to alleviate them?

In order for vaccine's to be federally mandated Obama's health care plan would first have to get rid of that pesky first amendment and abolish religious freedom. That's not going to happen.


(I'm not the one who took it off topic, but I still want to know why it was stated as though fact that half of those without health insurance in my state are living here while undocumented)

[In Exile]

Originally Posted by Cristiaz

I couldn't of said it better myself. In my mind, it is up to me and me alone (well, my husband too) how our daughter is taken care of. I carried her inside me, had a homebirth for her safety as well as my own, and have never vaxed her, for her safety and in respect for her body. No one else should have the right to make decisions about her health but me. This case with the child with chemo has really freaked me out and Obama's not helping either. The three vaxes that will be administered this fall will kill and injure alot of people...there's no way around it. You know that little babies will be injected with all 3 and the same time and when something goes wrong, the blame will go elsewhere. On the CDC's website you can read that during an epidemic, all laws go out the window and they can mandate vaxes.

My plan is to gather up as much bulk foods as possible and store it away in case there is an "epidemic" and we are not allowed to leave with out vaxes. That way, we'll just hang out in the safety of our house until the craziness is over. Maybe I sound crazy, but its better to be prepared than unprepared.

Too much Alex Jones or other "Fema Coffin surviving upcoming martial law"?

Gee, I am all for having a beef with unregulated conflict of interest in the FDA and CDC but heck, look again who you really have to thank for the Patriot Act. Why is every "they are out to get us" person going haywire NOW?

I have never read some much "gathering up food" stuff in the last 8 years- when you folks have been systematically stripped of basic rights as citizens. But I guess that was different. I didn't see Americans take to streets as they should have when "in the aftermath of 9/11" was a welcome excuse for about anything.

[Cristiaz]

Originally Posted by In Exile

Too much Alex Jones or other "Fema Coffin surviving upcoming martial law"?

Gee, I am all for having a beef with unregulated conflict of interest in the FDA and CDC but heck, look again who you really have to thank for the Patriot Act. Why is every "they are out to get us" person going haywire NOW?

I have never read some much "gathering up food" stuff in the last 8 years- when you folks have been systematically stripped of basic rights as citizens. But I guess that was different. I didn't see Americans take to streets as they should have when "in the aftermath of 9/11" was a welcome excuse for about anything.

It's not so much that "they" are to get us. It's more the fact that "they" want money and vaccines make billions. Whether or not they can mandate them will be shown true this fall. No harm in being prepared.

[claddaghmom]

Originally Posted by In Exile

Too much Alex Jones or other "Fema Coffin surviving upcoming martial law"?

Gee, I am all for having a beef with unregulated conflict of interest in the FDA and CDC but heck, look again who you really have to thank for the Patriot Act. Why is every "they are out to get us" person going haywire NOW?

I have never read some much "gathering up food" stuff in the last 8 years- when you folks have been systematically stripped of basic rights as citizens. But I guess that was different. I didn't see Americans take to streets as they should have when "in the aftermath of 9/11" was a welcome excuse for about anything.

well to answer your question honestly, no attempt to argue here or anger anyone ladies...i think it can be two things

1. who is in power. and that is a perception and a belief that everyone is entitled to. the patriot act scares the carp out of me. but who i think will use it wrongly and what i think 'wrong' is happens to be different from others.

2. i think there is a tendency for people to become most concerned when the stakes involve them, as opposed to some other random people. with the previous presidency, the focus was on someone else in another area. this presidency/administration and current events could possibly come down quite hard on an issue that i and a lot of other people care deeply about. it's just human nature to care more about your family and yourself, kwim?

[13Sandals]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

There are way too many religious fundamentalists in this country, and let's not forget that this country was FOUNDED on the idea of religious freedom.

No matter what the gov't does in terms of healthcare availability, vaccine tracking, and vaccine-related paperwork for school nurses, religious exemptions to vaccinations will remain a reality.

I agree with you, Ruthla, that in 'ordinary' circumstances, the religious exemption will stand, even if we move to a single-payer health care system. The problem is - the government CAN throw out the constitution in the name of public safety in certain events. Events like a terror threat, military invasion or (most importantly) epidemic and pandemic situations. The CDC was quick to pronounce a measles epidemic after 87 cases and no deaths last year. The WHO has now given us a 'pandemic'. The fear is, under a single payer system with every citizen in the same database - it may be a bit more difficult to drop off the radar, or lay low regarding your vaccination status. And remember, despite the constitution, we have 2 states that will not honor religious exemptions.

[honeybunch2k8]

Originally Posted by 13Sandals

I agree with you, Ruthla, that in 'ordinary' circumstances, the religious exemption will stand, even if we move to a single-payer health care system. The problem is - the government CAN throw out the constitution in the name of public safety in certain events. Events like a terror threat, military invasion or (most importantly) epidemic and pandemic situations. The CDC was quick to pronounce a measles epidemic after 87 cases and no deaths last year. The WHO has now given us a 'pandemic'. The fear is, under a single payer system with every citizen in the same database - it may be a bit more difficult to drop off the radar, or lay low regarding your vaccination status. And remember, despite the constitution, we have 2 states that will not honor religious exemptions.

And at least one is in the bible belt.

[artgoddess]

Originally Posted by 13Sandals

I agree with you, Ruthla, that in 'ordinary' circumstances, the religious exemption will stand, even if we move to a single-payer health care system. The problem is - the government CAN throw out the constitution in the name of public safety in certain events. Events like a terror threat, military invasion or (most importantly) epidemic and pandemic situations. The CDC was quick to pronounce a measles epidemic after 87 cases and no deaths last year. The WHO has now given us a 'pandemic'. The fear is, under a single payer system with every citizen in the same database - it may be a bit more difficult to drop off the radar, or lay low regarding your vaccination status. And remember, despite the constitution, we have 2 states that will not honor religious exemptions.

which states?

eta: I looked it up West VA and Mississippi. That's really messed up, has anyone heard about any pending court cases?

[ILoveMyBabyBird]

i'm not too worried about it, in a pandemic situation, i highly doubt there would be the amount of vaccines available for every person so i just wouldn't be running to the clinics to get my shot...

And as far as i understand, are there religious communities that are completely against vaccines, maybe quakers? not sure, i don't see the government raiding the place because they don't vax. And if things do get so bad that they are forcing vaccines on people against their free will, then i would blame myself and others like me who sat by and let this happen, as i am a person of this nation and it is my duty to stand of up for my beliefs and call attention to situations and laws that may strip me and others of our rights as a citizens.

And lastly, leaving the US is a possibility, but highly unlikely, as dh is from india, but i would prefer to stay here, with my rights intact.

[Ktietje85]

I am also afraid of these things...I hate Obama's health care plan entirely, and I am very afraid that if it passes that there will be only one "acceptable" means of treatment and it will be traditional. That is, forced screening tests, forced medication, forced vaccination.

I have heard that this fall flu shots may be mandatory for ALL because of some language in the Patriot Act combined with the WHO declaring a level 6 pandemic (which happened a couple weeks ago if you didn't know). Supposedly the only options will be 1) Take the shots, 2) Be quarantined in "camps," 3) Self-quarantine in your home. ALL of these are UNACCEPTABLE to me!!

I don't care what it takes, I won't be giving myself or my kids shots. Ever. And I won't quarantine us over stupid fake diseases that might make us sick for a few days but sure won't cause any serious or permanent damage!! We have to be willing to just tell them "NO." And if possible, write to your congressman and tell him/her how important choice is to you! Because it really is unacceptable to use unproven, biased, baseless "science" to force the entire population into doing anything.

[mamakah]

Originally Posted by becca_howell

Not to get off topic, but I think that is the misconception about the "uninsured" in the US. Of the 6 million "uninsured" in CA, over half of them are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! Ha!

Also, being "uninsured" isn't that bad. If you don't have a chronic health condition or if you are one who avoids doctors at all costs, you don't need health insurance. Besides, most health insurances don't cover holistic/naturopathic doctors.

My family is uninsured and it is that bad. My husband had a hernia and we had to go to 2 different emergency rooms and deal with their financial department for about an hour before treatment. Neither emergency room gave him treatment other than pain meds, and both said he would need surgery but we would have to put a certain percentage of the cost down before they would schedule a surgery.
All it takes is one fall that breaks your wrist, one car wreck, or one unplanned sickness and I KNOW that our medical bills would bankrupt us and then some. Being uninsured is scary, and I know many many many uninsured families. It seems a bit naive to me to state that being uninsured isn't that bad.
I don't go to dr.s with every sniffle. In fact I avoid them like the plague. However, I am constantly worried about some sort of accident. My moms broken wrist would have cost her over 35,000 had she not had insurance (she had to have surgery). A broken wrist!
OP- I have been a bit worried about this too. Especially after the whole mom who refused chemo thing and the gov't stepped in and ordered it. I worry that when the gov provides it, the gov dictates it. However, I *hope* that we would just fall in Canadas footsteps and it won't affect us.

[PaigeC]

My sister is "under" insured - an additional problem to uninsured. Because she *has* insurance she isn't eligible for some prescription help programs. She has a debilitating and rare disease called psoriatic arthritis for which only one drug has ever be made: Enbrel. She was on it for 1 month and after 11 years of cripling pain she could walk - even skip! The insurance company then decided she only needed 1/2 the dose her doctor perscribed. For 3 years she's been in pain now because she can't get the meds she needs. This insurance company covers Viagra by the way.

You dread the gov in between you and your dr? Can't be worse than the insurance parasites.

I'm a crazy liberal, Obama-loving, socialist wanna be. I don't feel that socialized health care and abolition of freedom of choice go hand in hand at all. Liberals - home of the ACLU, remember? The right of informed choice is a very liberal ideal.

Also, there are multiple examples of socialized countries (Canada has already been mentioned) that still up hold freedom of choice. Scandinavia for example.

I have searched extensively for what Obama has said about vaccines and I can't find anywhere that he is against choice on the issue. He is pro-vax but that doesn't bother me as long as he is pro-informed consent. Does anyone have a source on Obama saying he is against vaccine choice?

[Jugs]

Originally Posted by ILoveMyBabyBird

i'm not too worried about it, in a pandemic situation, i highly doubt there would be the amount of vaccines available for every person so i just wouldn't be running to the clinics to get my shot...

Ditto. The reports I've read thus far all state the "best case scenario" there will be a good 1 billion people left unvaccinated due to shortage. I can't see much effort being put into forcing vaccination when there are more than enough people willing to comply; if there was a surplus of doses maybe, but not if there is a shortage.