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post #41 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaigeC View Post
My sister is "under" insured - an additional problem to uninsured. Because she *has* insurance she isn't eligible for some prescription help programs. She has a debilitating and rare disease called psoriatic arthritis for which only one drug has ever be made: Enbrel. She was on it for 1 month and after 11 years of cripling pain she could walk - even skip! The insurance company then decided she only needed 1/2 the dose her doctor perscribed. For 3 years she's been in pain now because she can't get the meds she needs. This insurance company covers Viagra by the way.

You dread the gov in between you and your dr? Can't be worse than the insurance parasites.

I'm a crazy liberal, Obama-loving, socialist wanna be. I don't feel that socialized health care and abolition of freedom of choice go hand in hand at all. Liberals - home of the ACLU, remember? The right of informed choice is a very liberal ideal.

Also, there are multiple examples of socialized countries (Canada has already been mentioned) that still up hold freedom of choice. Scandinavia for example.

I have searched extensively for what Obama has said about vaccines and I can't find anywhere that he is against choice on the issue. He is pro-vax but that doesn't bother me as long as he is pro-informed consent. Does anyone have a source on Obama saying he is against vaccine choice?

He was quoted as saying "I am not for selective vaccinations. I believe it will bring back deadly diseases."

http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/09/obama-i-am-not.html


But, he has since made some statements which sound to me like he has been learning more about this issue.

http://autism.freedomblogging.com/20...epidemics/680/

“There is much evidence to suggest that ASD is a genetically-based neurological condition with environmental triggers. As president, I will lead an effort to conduct research to confirm these findings and study the potential triggers. We must find out why many Americans have ASD and other special needs, the causes, and best treatments and intervention.”


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-...i_b_97969.html
And now, yesterday, at a rally in Pennsylvania, Barack Obama had this rather surprising thing to say:

"We've seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it's connected to the vaccines. This person included. The science right now is inconclusive, but we have to research it."

(Note: The Washington Post reports that when Obama said "this person," he pointed to someone who had asked an autism question).
post #42 of 67
Quote:
And now, yesterday, at a rally in Pennsylvania, Barack Obama had this rather surprising thing to say:

"We've seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it's connected to the vaccines. This person included. The science right now is inconclusive, but we have to research it."

(Note: The Washington Post reports that when Obama said "this person," he pointed to someone who had asked an autism question).
This is very cool! Thanks for the link.

I'm not worried at all.

I was honestly more worried when the Republicans were in office. Things like the Patriot Act, trying to pass the "defense of marriage" amendment, and things like that make me think that they (repubs) were not for personal freedoms. I don't feel the same with the democrats though.

Other countries, like Canada and England, already have government-run health care. They still have the right to choose to vax or not vax. I just don't see it as going hand in hand.

I hope I'm not wrong, but those are my thoughts.

I'm actually excited that we are (hopefully) getting a government-run option. We'll still have the option of private too, but IMO everyone deserves healthcare. IMO, it is a right ...it is unethical to have people in this country dying from illnesses when healthcare is right next door. That makes me sick to my stomach, so I'm happy we are helping them.

I don't think giving the option of government health-care goes hand in hand with taking way medical choice.

If anything, the private corporations had more of an ability to take away choice if they were left unregulated. They can even determine which doctor or hospital you go to if you want them to pay for your treatment. I don't think them deciding to require vaccines for their private health coverage is that far of a stretch, especially if they get caught up with big pharma. So, there's as much of a theory there as anything else ....and I think that one would be more real b/c insurance and pharma go hand in hand with wanting to make the big bucks.
post #43 of 67
Just ask anybody with an HMO how FREE their choice of Doctors is...
Just ask around what it means for paying for a Doc "out of network" and other fun games. So much for "universal healthcare means I can't chose."

Nobody is going to take anything away from those that have healthcare- but I don't find anything wrong giving unisured people a way to get insured.

Quite frankly I don't get the rise in conspiracy hububb- especially after the last 8 years. I found that "anything goes if we call it post 9/11" much more worrisome, the loss of citizen's rights.

I completely go along with watching Baxter and other UA Violations. Same goes for the FDA and CDC, something's very wrong. Most people simply think it's vaxes that make the world go around blablabla. I honestly think Obama has more pressing issues at hand than to worry about mass vaccination. Quite frankly, his predecessor and his buddies were the kind of folks I'd worry about. Rarely ever seen such "I could not care less" approach to human life for a long time.
They are the ones who you can thank for being stripped of some of your rights.

What a relief it is not to have to listen to Bush and his buddies anymore, each and everyone of them. That's the kind of folks who loved nothing more than to strip people of their rights, one by one while force feeding the masses the big terrorism fear.

I'd personally lay of the "Obama deception- he is out throw us in camps" (read that even in this thread) stuff and think again wether sick people should have at least the chance to seek out some kind of treatment without having to worry about leaving six figure numbers of debt should they die.
post #44 of 67
[QUOTE=In Exile;13980653]
Quote:
Nobody is going to take anything away from those that have healthcare

Nothing is going to be taken away from those that have healthcare??? Really??? Then how is universal healthcare going to be funded? Since we've already been told by the Vice President that we should be patriotic and pay more taxes, I guess I have the answer to my own question.

Why is it that anyone who doesn't hold Obama in the highest esteem is said to be a conspiracy theorist?

I am very much afraid of what will come in the future with regard to vaccinations. I look at the facts--we have a wildly popular president, one who has stated that is is against selective vaccination for fear it will bring back deadly diseases. We have a Congress who pushes through legislation without even so much as reading, much less understanding, said legislation. We already have laws on the books to allow for vaccination during pandemic and for quarantine of the unvaccinated. At the state level, we've had at least one state (Michigan) try to pass legislation that would allow parents of unvaccinated kids to be sued for spreading disease. And we live in a society where most parents still don't question vaccines because they believe that vaccinating is a good thing, that all childhood diseases are to be feared, and even some who believe the unvaccinated should not be allowed in school. And despite having the legal right to expemptions, many people find them difficult to obtain. Just look around on this board at the stories of people who have to jump through hoops to get their exemptions.

If the best reason out there for why we won't have forced vaccination is that Obama is a good person, then God help us all.
post #45 of 67
What do exemptions for Kindergarten have to do with financing universal healthcare?? Nothing.

Btw, I read the "throwing into camps" in this thread.

It seems that some people love to "confuse" topics, just like it happens here. Illegal Immigrants, vax exemptions and universal healthcare all get lumped together.

You asked for paying for universal healthcare? I am sure mass vaccination will raise those funds...I guess you really cannot see this fear of mass vaccination has nothing to do with anything.

I have not seen one.single.sign. that anything has worsened in regards the right to not vax since Jan 20. Nothing. kThings have been bad before where just that- they were bad before. "Mandatory" flu vaccines in NJ etc have nothing to do with the last election.

It's awful that people have to jump through hoops to get their exemptions but that was also the case before the last general election.

By the way raising a vaccine free child seems easier here than in a lot of countries I know of. Who get's really taking for a ride are immigrants entering the country legally- that's Gardasil get's forced upon people.

Try going to school in France unvaxed.

This whole "things are so much worse now than before" just doesn't fly with me. By the way, you don't have to be an Obama-hypnotized "kool aid" drinker to be surprised by the way some folks are screaming now.

By the way, I am from a former "eastern block" country and remember "socialized medizine."
Keeping people in line, same everywhere. Here you just let people slave 3 jobs and they still don't make a livable wage, give them 10 days of vacation and don't even start on maternity care here. If you're poor you and get sick, hey tough luck.
The "other system" lets you slave along as well, just differently. End result? Lining the pockets of a few. Same deal.

I remember working as an Office Manager in a Clinic was a real eye opener for me, turning people away that couldn't pay. Wow, just wow.
You know who really should be locked up? Insurance companies are the real hardened criminals. I was always blown away how they always found another reason not to pay.

The healthcare system here is not expensive because it's the "best" but because prices are being driven up artificially to stay up there. Yes, there are some really outstanding and world famous clinics here- but the majority of the country lives differently. Just check infant mortality in the US- Americans pretty much work the hardest and get the least.

And it works= people are in uproar and debate how they will be enslaved by universal healthcare- in the meantime plenty of people will die a lot sooner than they would have if they gotten better care.
post #46 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by In Exile View Post
What do exemptions for Kindergarten have to do with financing universal healthcare?? Nothing.

Btw, I read the "throwing into camps" in this thread.

It seems that some people love to "confuse" topics, just like it happens here. Illegal Immigrants, vax exemptions and universal healthcare all get lumped together.

You asked for paying for universal healthcare? I am sure mass vaccination will raise those funds...I guess you really cannot see this fear of mass vaccination has nothing to do with anything.

I have not seen one.single.sign. that anything has worsened in regards the right to not vax since Jan 20. Nothing. kThings have been bad before where just that- they were bad before. "Mandatory" flu vaccines in NJ etc have nothing to do with the last election.

It's awful that people have to jump through hoops to get their exemptions but that was also the case before the last general election.

By the way raising a vaccine free child seems easier here than in a lot of countries I know of. Who get's really taking for a ride are immigrants entering the country legally- that's Gardasil get's forced upon people.

Try going to school in France unvaxed.

This whole "things are so much worse now than before" just doesn't fly with me. By the way, you don't have to be an Obama-hypnotized "kool aid" drinker to be surprised by the way some folks are screaming now.

By the way, I am from a former "eastern block" country and remember "socialized medizine."
I really don't understand a thing about your post...but I'll respond anyway.

I'm not confusing mass vaccination with financing healthcare reform. You stated that nothing would be taken away from those who already have healthcare coverage. And I stated that covering the previously uninsured will have to be paid for somehow. My guess is that since dems won't be in favor of cutting any of the other big entitlement programs that funding will come from increased taxes, so yes, if my taxes are increased then something will be taken away from me.

A previous poster said something to the effect of vaccination having more to do with the culture of the people rather than the healthcare system. I tend to agree. That was the point of my post--we have a populace that is in favor of vaccination. Look at the vaccination rates and you'll see that is true. We have a popular president who believes in vaccination. His public statements could be inferred to mean that he believes vaccines are the reason for the decline of deadly diseases. We have laws in place to suspend expemptions in case of pandemic. And we have a law making body who has been known to pass laws without so much as reading the legislation before voting. Taking all of these things into account, why is it so implausible to believe that if the administration wanted to increase vaccination rates or add more vaccines to the schedule or change expemption laws to make them harder to get that it couldn't do so? I'm simply saying "if".

Did you happen to see the issue of Time magazine from two weeks ago? It was the one devoted entirely to healthcare and healthcare reform. Much of the magazine was devoted to "How Not to Get Sick". Preventative measures for ensuring good health were listed for various age groups. In every single age group, "getting your vaccinations--every single one of them" was listed a a way to maintain good health. Given that Obama has touted prevention as one way of reducing healthcare costs, is it so far fetched to think that a government sponsored health plan might put an emphasis on vaccination and maybe provide incentives for healthcare providers to raise vaccination rates of their patients? This doesn't necessarily mean forced vaccinations or an end to exemptions, but it could mean more pressure on parents who don't vaccinate.

And just as the whole ""things are so much worse now than before" doesn't fly with you--the whole "things are so much better because Obama is president" doesn't fly with me. I'd really rather hear how Obama plans to improve conditions so I can determine how that will affect me rather than more of the tired rehashing of the evils of Bush.
post #47 of 67
I'll try again. What changed Jan 20 at noon? What action has this administration actually undertaken (IN REALITY) that changed anything about vaccine exemptions they way they were before? What change of law has been either suggested or signed into effect anything regarding vaccines?

Any facts that support this "the world is coming to an end?"

Getting an exemption has never been fun for some people- what exactly has changed?

Btw, I sure hope that some will "rehash old evils". Those folks should be behind bars. Is that why some corners of the "internets" are buzzing with this "they are coming to take our guns" stuff? To distract from this 8 year "legacy"?

Again, what has made the vaccine refusal situation different in the last months? I'm the last one to inject heavy metals into my child's body, I just don't see where this extra panic comes from. (aside from people who just can't stomach the end of the last 8 years)

So, some facts rooted in reality on how we all have been stripped from our basic rights to refuse vaccines? (other than the existing Patriot Act/Epidemic stuff already in existence)
post #48 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by In Exile View Post
I'll try again. What changed Jan 20 at noon? What action has this administration actually undertaken (IN REALITY) that changed anything about vaccine exemptions they way they were before? What change of law has been either suggested or signed into effect anything regarding vaccines?

Any facts that support this "the world is coming to an end?"

Getting an exemption has never been fun for some people- what exactly has changed?

Btw, I sure hope that some will "rehash old evils". Those folks should be behind bars. Is that why some corners of the "internets" are buzzing with this "they are coming to take our guns" stuff? To distract from this 8 year "legacy"?

Again, what has made the vaccine refusal situation different in the last months? I'm the last one to inject heavy metals into my child's body, I just don't see where this extra panic comes from. (aside from people who just can't stomach the end of the last 8 years)

So, some facts rooted in reality on how we all have been stripped from our basic rights to refuse vaccines? (other than the existing Patriot Act/Epidemic stuff already in existence)
I really don't understand what the "take our guns stuff" is all about or what "legacy" you are speaking of or how that relates to vaccines...

What changed on January 20 is that a very eloquent speaker took office as president. I feel as though many people cannot see, or refuse to see, beyond the rhetoric and the fancy speech and ask the pertinent and difficult questions. As an American citizen and a taxpayer, I feel as though I have a right to question what my government is doing. But since January 20, I get the sense that any questioning of Obama is deemed unpatriotic. I actually don't know what his plans are for healthcare reform because he hasn't read an exact plan off of his teleprompter yet. I guess I'm just supposed to trust that everything will be good simply because he isn't Bush.

And I don't know why you assume people who may be concerned about healthcare reform are in a panic or feel the world is at an end. I'm certainly not. I happen to be concerned about vaccine exemptions. I had no trouble obtaining a religious exemption for my son. But I see and read and hear about others who have. I do sometimes think about what course of action I would take if for whatever reason my state took away the religious exemption or became like New York where religious convictions can be and are questioned. I happen to live in a state that offers only religious and medical exemptions. And yes, I do wonder what changes, if any, may come from healthcare reform as to how it relates to vaccines. As I stated in my previous post, vaccines are viewed by the medical community as preventative measures and absolute necessities when it comes to maintaining good health. In healthcare finance, preventative measures are seen as huge money savers and budget balancers (you'll be hard pressed to find anyone in the mainstream medical community who will argue that a rotavirus vaccine is more expensive than hospitalizing a dehydrated child for several days). The president has an ambitious agenda when it comes to overhauling the healthcare system. So I do feel as though asking what role vaccines and vaccine law will play in healthcare reform is a legitimate question. Just because no laws affecting exemptions have been proposed as of yet, certainly doesn't mean that it will never happen. While I am definitely not in a panic, I also am not one to put my head in the sand like an ostrich and pretend that things won't be different in the near future. I simply want to be prepared and know my options. I don't see that as being cynical. My children are my greatest joy and responsibility--I simply want to be able to make the best possible choices for them given the circumstances. And I think that healthcare reform definitely has the potential to change the circumstances. Why is that unreasonable? Furthermore, what exactly does that have to do with Bush, guns, legacies, etc.? I really don't understand that point.

I have a Masters degree in Public Administration with a concentration in Macroeconomics. And I spent many years in the highest levels of state government working on healthcare financing in a very poor state with a state-wide public charity hospital system. So I do know a little something about how decisions on public healthcare finance are made.
post #49 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonShelby View Post
We have to use a religious exemption here in Massachusetts, but I'm not too worried about being forced to get shots. As long as the gov't has an insurance fund for vaccination injuries, it's unlikely that the gov't will force parents to do something to their kid that they know may have harmful effects.

Just keep feeding your kids immunity boosting foods and filing whatever letter is needed to claim the exemption and don't feel that you have to explain to people. Most won't understand because they're as fearful of the disease as you may be of vaccine injuries.
The problem with the government fund for vax injury... they deny most of it and it's nearly impossible to prove to them... they do not accept the truth and it's hard to fight the law team of a big pharma corp. If obama makes vaccines mandatory i am leaving this country and never coming back... i can't tolerate liveing in fear of government and pharma.. if his health care plan passes odds are everyone will be mandated to recieve vaccines, i don't want anything from this government... i want the opportunity to sell my house and leave... I hate living here... i feel like i'm being terrorized by pharmacutical companies... and the reality is... they can and would slap you with neglect for withholding vaccine... very easy for them to do...and todays sheep will turn you right in... they can say and mostly likely will because profit is all the motive they need...that you are medically neglecting your child... that is what i believe...
post #50 of 67
i don't share your fears. other countries have universal healthcare systems in place, and have had them for years without any sort of wacky government run mandatory vax gestapo type thing happening.
post #51 of 67
all i can say after reading this... is i am still afraid of mandated medicine.. mandating medicine is one of the most unethical issues facing our childrens future... i wish i knew someone i could talk to.. i need a hug because unfortunately i can't stop my body from tensing and i would leave if it wasn't for my son wanting to be w/his father... i have another country to go to and noone there would ever force vaccines for school.. they prefer you get polio but they say they would never force someone to do it... living here is enough to kill a person.. this country is in ethical dire straits... i love everyone who can respect others enough not to force thier ideaologies on others... but there are too many people out there who can't even put forth the effort to think for themselves and don't want to ... my 80 somethin year old grandmother said " why should i care? I won't be here then" < it broke my heart because to me that is a foul human being... anyone who can be so dismissive about thier children and future generations... that was a very selfish thing to say and i know she is not the only one... i have heard this from other people ...
Fear... yea i do fear...pharmacutical companies should not be involved with congress nor should they be making laws to take away the right to have a say/choice... but that is what they are doing... how does one go up against an entity that is larger than most countries... and is in control of one of the biggest on the globe? How do you go up against thier legal team?
We shouldn't have to...we should not have to answer for our choices... we have already lost much of our freedom just based on that
post #52 of 67
I live in Canada, despite the fact that my Dr. is a little pushy about vaxing we have not had anybody banging down our door to take our DD away, nor would she be refused service at a hospital if she was sick. I am very greatful that we do not have to worry about the bills that would be associated with medical treatment. Whether that be and ER visit, or some chronic issue. It's bad enough at the moment that DH and I are both not working and therefore we do not have any dental coverage, I would hate to think that we would be in some huge debt if we had to take a trip to the ER. Like PPs have said there will always be the religious waiver so I don't think there would be any big reason to worry.
post #53 of 67
i actually think our healthcare may very well get better if its gov. funded. vaccinating for everything, agressive treatments, lack of preventive care etc are all well and good when we are paying for it... i do not thing that will be the case when everyone's tax dollars are paying for it.

i think vaccine choice will be more prominent (they don't pay for it if we don't get them) and a big emphasis will be put on preventative care b/c its cheaper
post #54 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama1803 View Post
Why is it that anyone who doesn't hold Obama in the highest esteem is said to be a conspiracy theorist?

I am very much afraid of what will come in the future with regard to vaccinations. I look at the facts--we have a wildly popular president, one who has stated that is is against selective vaccination for fear it will bring back deadly diseases. We have a Congress who pushes through legislation without even so much as reading, much less understanding, said legislation. We already have laws on the books to allow for vaccination during pandemic and for quarantine of the unvaccinated. At the state level, we've had at least one state (Michigan) try to pass legislation that would allow parents of unvaccinated kids to be sued for spreading disease. And we live in a society where most parents still don't question vaccines because they believe that vaccinating is a good thing, that all childhood diseases are to be feared, and even some who believe the unvaccinated should not be allowed in school. And despite having the legal right to expemptions, many people find them difficult to obtain. Just look around on this board at the stories of people who have to jump through hoops to get their exemptions.

If the best reason out there for why we won't have forced vaccination is that Obama is a good person, then God help us all.

Right on!

The government seems at times to try and pass legislation that will curb special interests, but they never quite foresee all the loopholes. The special interests are always 17 steps ahead.
Obama 'good' or Obama 'business as usual', government run health care will only be government run in as much as the government is an arm of Big pharma. I agree with the poster who said the focus will be on 'preventive care', that is: vaccinations, screenings, unnecessary invasive tests - the things big pharma deems as 'preventive'.

Canada runs universal health care with choice implied. The US version of government health care will be built from the get-go with a different philosophy; compliance. The less people are on the alert for what can go wrong here - the easier time the government (big pharma) will have pushing through its agenda.
post #55 of 67
Quote:
I agree with the poster who said the focus will be on 'preventive care', that is: vaccinations, screenings, unnecessary invasive tests - the things big pharma deems as 'preventive'.
I think this is WAY off base. These are the things that make healthcare so expensive right now..........I truly think the administration is trying to get big pharma's hands OUT of the way healthcare is run.

Now, the gov't runs medicare and medicaid and there are no mandates for people receiving those, why would it be any different with a public insurance option?

If anyhting I do believe that this administration will uphold people's freedom's WAY more than the Bush admin. Hello, look at the Patriot Act for goodness sakes.

I mean, as it is right now you can be denied insurance coverage for not vaccinating, doctors are firing people from their practices for not vaccinating -

the thhing everyone needs to worry about is the patriot act and the swine flu "pandemic," this is where your freedoms are going to be taken away - not by single payer insurance.
post #56 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainsun View Post
I think this is WAY off base. These are the things that make healthcare so expensive right now..........I truly think the administration is trying to get big pharma's hands OUT of the way healthcare is run.

Now, the gov't runs medicare and medicaid and there are no mandates for people receiving those, why would it be any different with a public insurance option?

If anyhting I do believe that this administration will uphold people's freedom's WAY more than the Bush admin. Hello, look at the Patriot Act for goodness sakes.

I mean, as it is right now you can be denied insurance coverage for not vaccinating, doctors are firing people from their practices for not vaccinating -

the thhing everyone needs to worry about is the patriot act and the swine flu "pandemic," this is where your freedoms are going to be taken away - not by single payer insurance.

The first article is an op-ed piece written by the Democrat Tom Harkin who is crafting the Prevention and Public Health portion of the healthcare reform bill. The second is an article by the AP on why preventative care doesn't always save money--except for children's vaccinations.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/200906...ws/ynews_ts408



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/200906...ws/ynews_ts408
post #57 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainsun View Post
the thhing everyone needs to worry about is the patriot act and the swine flu "pandemic," this is where your freedoms are going to be taken away - not by single payer insurance.
Now, that I totally agree with! However, the above situation plus everyone on a government database for single payer with vax history would create an even bigger danger. YKWIM?

But I wouldn't write off the other dangers. We still have child services bringing people to court for not following standard treatment (and I'm not just talking about vax).. There is forced medication going on in this country and I don't think these cases are going to go better once the government can add that they are picking up the tab. So its more the long-term possibilities that scare me. The immediate transition to single-payer is extremely attractive on the front that it would put the insurance companies down. That would be an immediate plus anyway.
post #58 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainsun View Post
I think this is WAY off base. These are the things that make healthcare so expensive right now..........I truly think the administration is trying to get big pharma's hands OUT of the way healthcare is run.

Now, the gov't runs medicare and medicaid and there are no mandates for people receiving those, why would it be any different with a public insurance option?

If anyhting I do believe that this administration will uphold people's freedom's WAY more than the Bush admin. Hello, look at the Patriot Act for goodness sakes.

I mean, as it is right now you can be denied insurance coverage for not vaccinating, doctors are firing people from their practices for not vaccinating -

the thhing everyone needs to worry about is the patriot act and the swine flu "pandemic," this is where your freedoms are going to be taken away - not by single payer insurance.
What makes healthcare so expensive are chronic diseases, not vaccinations.

Medicaid provides "bonus" money to states depending on their vaccination rates. Medicaid is also projected to be broke in a few short years. Why is so out of the realm of possibility that the government could try to save a few bucks by enacting efforts to increase vaccination rates which are seen as a preventative (and thus, money saving) measure?
post #59 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama1803 View Post
What makes healthcare so expensive are chronic diseases, not vaccinations.

Medicaid provides "bonus" money to states depending on their vaccination rates. Medicaid is also projected to be broke in a few short years. Why is so out of the realm of possibility that the government could try to save a few bucks by enacting efforts to increase vaccination rates which are seen as a preventative (and thus, money saving) measure?
yes - if the government is trying to cut costs and Big pharma can say that Gardasil saves money in the long run, (albeit, using phony data and manipulating statistics) then why wouldn't government-run healthcare move to require it - or penalize you in some way if you don't comply? I would LOVE to see the insurance industry toppled - but big pharma will still have a lot of power in a government only scenario.
Big Pharma uses strong-arm tactics with the government all the time. They threatened to stop making the chicken pox vaccine unless it was added to the vax schedule - and viola! We now vax for chicken pox despite the fact that the public didn't want it, it doesn't work well and is having unexpected consequences. Just a tiny step further for them to say - hey, guarantee me you will buy this vax for every child in America and I will continue to make it and give you a good price.
post #60 of 67
Quote:
What makes healthcare so expensive are chronic diseases, not vaccinations
NOr necessarily vaccines, but what also makes it so expensive are all of the unnecessary tests and screenings that people have.

Quote:
Medicaid provides "bonus" money to states depending on their vaccination rates. Medicaid is also projected to be broke in a few short years. Why is so out of the realm of possibility that the government could try to save a few bucks by enacting efforts to increase vaccination rates which are seen as a preventative (and thus, money saving) measure?
I do agree with this, but there is a wide gap between "trying to increase vaccination" to mandatory vaccination. I mean, I would argue that they are already trying to increase vaccination....

Quote:
But I wouldn't write off the other dangers. We still have child services bringing people to court for not following standard treatment (and I'm not just talking about vax)..
Oh, I know. Unfortunately people do not know their rights.

Again, the thing that really *does* make me nervous is the pandemic talk and Patriot Act - I know now, here in FL, because the governor declared a state of emergency (regarding the swine flu), they CAN mandate vaccination. Now I do not think that this is going to happen (right now), but I really do think that singlepayer health care system will not be the problem.

I also do not believe that Obama (himself) will take any of our personal liberties away, health choices being one of them.
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