How to GENTLY suggest gentle discipline to another mom?

[Litcrit]

OK, I haven't replied to an sms from my best friend for 2 days, because I don't know how. I need help.

She's a wonderful woman, and a wonderful mother to a toddler and a newborn. Her 2yo girl is my Goddaughter and a spirited, energetic little girl. Lately, she's been acting aggressively towards other children, shoving them or hitting them, and I'm guessing it may have something to do with the stresses of becoming a big sister. Her parents respond by spanking her once or twice, because they read in a Christian book on discipline that it is a valid method to be used when necessary (nothing extreme like US fundamentalists, I must note). Then she hits or shoves again. It doesn't seem to be working, just making things worse.

So she wrote me an sms saying, among other things, that she's sorry about her daughter's behavior the last time we met. I thought about just replying 'Kiss my Goddaughter for me ' or something like that, but then saw it as an opening to make a gentle, loving, positive remark on gd... but can't think of one.

I don't want her to feel bad about it even the tiniest little bit - she tries her best and loves her kids very much. And I love her. And it's not too big a deal - most of the time, the girl doesn't even cry - she keeps smirking mischieously . I guess I'd just like to gently point out that hitting for hitting doesn't seem to be working - it only makes sense, right? But how do you say it in a positive way that will build my friend up? In a short sentence?

Thank you!

[MittensKittens]

There are lots of Christian books that suggest spanking as an acceptable discipline method. I'm no expert on Christianity AT ALL, but I do know that there is a great Christian GD website out there, that uses quotes from the Bible to explain more about GD as a method. Perhaps someone here remembers the URL?

No parent is perfect, and that is fine of course. Perhaps you could suggest to your friend that the best way to curb the aggressive behavior could be to spend more time with her DD in a positive way, letting her help around the new baby; generally making her feel loved, wanted and needed. I know from my own experience that that will do a lot to lift the mood of a new big sister. Hitting will not only generate more hitting - it will also increase feelings of jealousy on the part of the toddler. Gaining a sibling must be hard for a toddler, especially one with so much energy .

[lach]

IME the best way to make suggestions like this is to come from a sympathetic standpoint, and then segue into either a personal recommendation, or one from a friend or "friend."

So start out with some sympathy: "Oh, poor Sally. I didn't think she was that bad, but the new baby must be tough on her."

Then go into your personal experiences: "When Timmy was born, Tommy had a really rough time, too." "I remember when my little sister was born, I was really upset that I didn't have the playmate my mother had told me I'd have: the baby couldn't do anything!" "My parents have some really funny stories about how my older brother reacted when I was born. I'm sure they were horrified at the time, but now it's just funny."

And then you go into the recommendations. "The book that REALLY helped me deal with Tommy was ___." "A friend recommended this certain book, and it looks really interesting. I don't know if you'd be interested in it, but I know a few people who swear by it, and it's probably worth a shot!" "I read an article about this, and it had a list of suggestions. I can't find the article now, but this is what it recommended: ... I don't know if any of that seems like a good idea to you, but I thought the article was really interesting!"

Basically, the way to offer parenting advice in a way so that it will actually be taken is to do anything but lecture, and then to feign a "we're all clueless and in this together" stance. The few times I've felt it was acceptable for me to offer someone else advice (and this certainly seems like a good time: you're obviously close, and she seems to be seeking out advice), this is how I went about it and it's always been received very gracefully.

[jecombs]

Originally Posted by Litcrit

So she wrote me an sms saying, among other things, that she's sorry about her daughter's behavior the last time we met. I thought about just replying 'Kiss my Goddaughter for me ' or something like that, but then saw it as an opening to make a gentle, loving, positive remark on gd... but can't think of one.

I would say "That's okay, I understand [Goddaughter] is going through an adjustment phase right now. Just give her extra hugs and kisses from her Godmother!"

Can you and the Mom get together for coffee or something? If she's having that much trouble with her DD, she probably needs some support too! When people are telling me how they discipline their children, I always ask how/if that method is working for their family. If they say it's working great, I don't say anything else. If they say it's not working, but they don't know what else to do, that's my opening to recommend some websites or books on AP or GD. I try really hard not to be too pushy, because I know I can come-off as really intense about these kind of subjects.

[4inMyHeart3inArms]

I would proably say something along the lines of

"Please do not feel bad about her behavior. I've been reading a lot on child development lately, and it sounds totally normal for a child who recently became a big sister. All she needs is some extra love and attention and I'm sure this phase will pass. It's very normal.

I have been thinking for a couple days of how to say this to you, and it is heard with the same love with which I am saying this, but I think that spanking her in response is making the situation worse for all of you, and I say this because I know what a wonderful and loving mother you are and I'm sure it doesn't feel right for you to do that, but I'm guessing its the only way you know, so I wanted to let you know that if you want some ideas on how to help her and skip the spanking part I would love to help. If you don't feel comfortable talking about it I can lend you a book or you can check (insert favorite GD book here) at the library. Another Christian I know told me she used to spank but came across a website called gentlechristianmothers.com that has a ton of Godly advice on discipline without spanking and also an online support group, and there is also a book called "Grace Based Discipline" if you are looking a christian parenting book for discipline advice - this one has advice that will give you good results without having to resort to spanking.

Again I want to tell you that I love you and your family and think you are a wonderful mother. I know this can be a sensitive subject and a very hard and personal decision for a parent to make when it comes to disciplining their children, but I just feel like because you are such a kind hearted person that this must be a hard time for you and that you would handle things another way if you knew there was another way. I won't bring this up again unless you want some support from me, and I really hope you read this with the love and compassion it was written with.

I hope whatever you decide, you can figure out a healthy solution that works for both you and your daughter. I love you guys like my own family. I am sure (godchilds name) will adjust to having a new sibling soon. It must be hard on all of you adjusting to the new family dynamic, but I think you are handling it really well and with some help (godchild) will be able to handle it really well too."

in your own words of course.

[MittensKittens]

Originally Posted by 4inMyHeart3inArms

gentlechristianmothers.com

That's the one!

[Carley]

These are great ideas. It's so awesome to hear from women who are respectful of diversity in all of us all mothers. Treading the parenting "advice" topics wisely can be difficult for some and others can be straight up self-righteous (in any idea). I totally feel every one of us is "all clueless and in this together." Whether a parenting method is "working" or not is totally subjective.

It might help to think about what you'd like to hear from your friend if she felt Gentle Discipline wasn't "working" and making things worse.

[camracrazy]

I would not even mention the spanking in your reply. I think that is the quickest way to make someone feel like you are judging them, even if you don't mean it that way.

Instead, I would just reply with sympathy. Something like, "It must be hard to have a toddler and a newborn right now!" Then a gentle sugestion, "When I went through something similar, I tried A, B, and C. B seemed to work well." or "I haven't tried it but I've heard a lot of parents are having success with xyz method." Then give her some book titles that might help or some website links.

If you are up to it, maybe you could offer to watch the toddler for her for an afternoon. It may just give her a nice little time to de-stress, slow down, put things in perspective, and be able to come at the problem with fresh ideas (or atleast less aggravation!)

[BeanyMama]

i dunno! unsolicited advice seems to usually put people on the defensive. i would probably reply with the "kiss my goddaughter for me!", like you initially thought.

as a more experienced mama, perhaps she'll ask your thoughts and advice without worrying you're judging her.

[1littlebit]

hm. thats a toughie... i might say "make sure you give her lots of extra love and kisses from me!"

maybe if she asks or the opprotunity arises say something about how you always try to model good ways to handle situations... and you have found that when your kids act out towards other children it really helps if you make an extra effort to treat them how you would like them to treat others and model good social problem solving techniques.

wow i was trying to find a nice and subtle way to say that hitting you child will not teach her not to hit other children.... sorry subtlety is not my strong point... but i tried really hard... maybe someone can come up with something better,

just remember that she really is trying and she may not know what else to do. sometimes it is hard not to respond the that behavior in a consequence type way. like you see your kid hitting someone else's kid or something and you feel like you have to do something to discipline.. if that makes sense?

[_betsy_]

"Don't worry about it. Totally normal- she's 2! Being a big sister is hard somedays! Give her a big hug and kiss for me, OK? See ya soon"

[4inMyHeart3inArms]

also you have to take into account your friendship with this person. I only have close friends, and we have the kind of friendship where we *know* we respect each other and that we talk to eachother out of love not judgement. I can talk to my friends honestly and they can talk to me honestly and no one gets defensive because we understand the other person's intentions. And we know that the other person knows we are doing our best. If you have a strong friendship with this person talking about it might not be a problem. If its not a strong friendship or you know your friend is hyper sensitive, then some of the other posters had some good pointers on how to just be nice without giving any guidance towards actually using gentle discipline.

If I were your friend, I would want you to say something to me. Thats just me though. some people feel ignorance is bliss and would rather keep hitting their children (even though they are kind people who don't like how they feel when they do it but just think they *have to*) then to learn that there IS another way.

In this example imagine this:
you are hitting your child and you learn that its not necessary, or maybe you even learn its harmful. Either way, that is a hard reality for some people. Some people rather not know there is another way and think they are doing what they have to do.

where are other people would rather know its harmful because they love their children and are willing to admit when they are wrong and change so their children can have the happiest healthiest lives possible even if that means admitting to having made a mistake.

My friends tell me when they think I have made a mistake. Maybe I dont always agree, but sometimes I do and I'm glad that they love me enough to want tell me and respect me enough (to know that I am amature adult who can handle ideas other then my own) to actually tell me.

You know what kind of person your friend is, so when you read all these replies you'll know which solution would be the best for her personality and your friendship relationship with her. When I read your post she just sounded like the type of person who wouldnt hit if she didnt think she had to, which was why I aimed for the gentle guidance approach.

Do you think she would be too defensive to accept what you say, and only get mad - or do you think she would be happy to learn she can help her daughter without the spanking?

One thing is for sure, she will probably continue to spank if she doesn't know there is another way. What would a real friend do? Stand back and watch her friend feel forced to spank even though she is a nice person who probably wishes she didnt have to? Or would a real friend let her friend know that she doesn't have to do that if she doesn't want to, and offer up other solutions for things she can do that they think their friend would be more comfortable with.

Imagine if it wasn't parenting.

I'm a chocoholic and I want to lose weight but I love eating chocolate.
You know about this really low cal chocolate cake that tastes BETTER then the high cal chocolate cake I am eating.

Do you tell me because you want me to experience the results I want in a better way? Or do you watch me fail to reach my goals by eating somethings that tastes worse then it has to - all because you don't want to hurt my feelings?

Everyone is different, but there are people out there like me who would be more upset to find out you knew I had spinach between my teeth and didn't tell me then for me to experience the embarassment of you telling me it was there and offering me a toothpick.

[Carley]

Originally Posted by 4inMyHeart3inArms

some people feel ignorance is bliss and would rather keep hitting their children (even though they are kind people who don't like how they feel when they do it but just think they *have to*) then to learn that there IS another way.


What would a real friend do? Stand back and watch her friend feel forced to spank even though she is a nice person who probably wishes she didnt have to?


I'm a chocoholic and I want to lose weight but I love eating chocolate.
You know about this really low cal chocolate cake that tastes BETTER then the high cal chocolate cake I am eating

So... I think the question here is: Does her friend feel she "has" to spank and secretly thinks it's wrong or does her friend feel that spanking is the right way to parent. I think that's what a lot of people are pointing out should probably be felt out before saying anything.

It'd be a freaking disaster if the OP assumed her friend didn't think spanking was right and "went in for the rescue" when her friend believes her parenting is correct. I think maybe that's why the OP posted in the first place.

A lot of people think spanking is the "better" way.

And I don't think chocolate cuts it here. Chocolate is a preference, not a belief or a dogma.

Let's compare parenting to religion. Don't dog me on this, they are totally similar.

I'm Unitarian and I want to live my life to my fullest spiritual potential. You are Catholic and know that Catholicism is the spiritual path and want me to know I'll only reach my spiritual potential with Catholicism. Catholicism is the right.

Chances are I've felt I've been missing something & I'll convert; chances are I'm all "Um... no, and that sucks that you said that!"


Say you're a runner and a health nut. Your vegetarian friends knows vegetarian diets are healthier and wants to show you ways you can eat less meat and be vegetarian. Chances are you'll eat a less meat based diet, chances are you'll feel compelled to defensiveness when you and your friend eat together.

Ad nauseum.

Some people are middle of the road & open to anything, but others have the right/wrong black/white thing going on. There's a chance of any one of us being any one of those things about a myriad of topics.

OP go with your gut & feel this one out yourself. You absolutely do not need to say anything if you don't think it's the right thing to do. People are different & it's ok. If your friend asks your advice then you can always bust out your gentle suggestions. People have posted some awesome prose here!

Good luck! Keep us updated if you say something... I'd love to learn from someone else's experience!

[4inMyHeart3inArms]

If you knew anything about people who struggle with weight you would know that eating can be a very sensitive subject pretty close to religion. Sometimes people dont realize the dangers of what they are doing and thats WHY they believe in it.

How about this analagy:
I believe God wants me to kill somebody and I tell you this. Do you tell me that is not what God really wants me to do, or do you "respect my beliefs". You know I am not a killer and must be really misguided by this new church I joined, which is really a cult and I can't tell because I am so far in. You can tell because you are looking at it from a 3rd party point of view.

Back to food. I eat nothing but junk and I have a heart attack and go back to eating junk food because I think the problem was caused by lack of excersize - not eating mcdonalds every day. Do you tell me about the mcdonalds or not?

Sometimes when you love someone you have to risk hurting their feelings for a day to be a real friend in the end. When it comes to things that are as severely damaging as spanking I think it is worth it to speak up. Then again, I wouldnt be friends with the kind of person who would want to hit their child even if there was another way, so I just imagine any friend I know would want me to clue them in to another way.

You know your friend best as I said, so you know if she is the kind of person who thinks hitting her child is a good thing or the kind of person who wouldn't hit if there was a way to live without hitting.


Some people do believe in spanking - but thats because they don't know its dangers. I think that parent would like a chance to learn another way. Who would hit even if they didnt think they had to? If I were hitting my children I would hope someone would say something to me. I rather have my feelings hurt in the short term then my child emotionally (and possibly physically and sexually) damaged in the long run. So another question would be which do you think your friend would hate more in the long run: you bringing this up, or her child being more promiscuous as a teen, harder to control, more aggressive, allowing others to hurt her because she thinks pain is part of love, lower IQ scores, resentment towards her parents instead of respect, fearing her parents, low self esteem, resentment towards God (when done in his name), a hurt parent-child relationship, an angry teenager (they don't fall from the sky you know), etc? I think most parents in the long run would rather have made a mistake a few times and found out what they did was wrong, then to not find out they were wrong until their children are grown while their friend stood back the whole time knowing they could have helped but not stepping up to the plate.

To me it seems selfish not to say something. People are more worried about their friend being mad at them for a short while then about the child being damaged and hurt for a long while. A person who really cares about their friend would help them, even if that meant someone might be mad at them for a while. If you want to help your friend, help them.

if the person is hitting for the sake of hitting then that does not say "wonderful person" to me, which is why I got the vibe the mother the OP is talking about probably doesn't like hitting.

I had a cousin who believed there was nothing wrong with taking drugs and he didn't like when we said something about it but guess what? He was hurting himself so we did say something about. In the long run he is glad, but in the short term he didnt like us for it. It was more important he knew what he was doing was dangerous then for him to "like us"

[Carley]

Heh, I guess I don't feel that spanking or different parenting styles/beliefs (especially in this context) are like homicide, death and addiction We're all different

[4inMyHeart3inArms]

well none of those things are like any of those things, but the mind set that leads people to do those things can be similar. Many people do not think their addictions or behaviors are wrong, even when the law says differently. Spanking is just a legal term for hitting that applies only to consensual adults and unconsenting children.

all in all, it's not really a parents right to hit their child, its the absence of a child's right not to be hit that leaves them unprotected from that treatment. And as a human they should have that right. Even animals have that right. Yet, in our country anyway, we have to speak up if we want to be treated humanely. The women had to speak up. We didnt say "the mean lost their right to hit their women" no, not at all. The women just finally had their right not to be hit respected. Same goes for the slaves, and now for animals. I hope children will be next on the list to have their rights respected.

[Ruthla]

ITA with not bringing up spanking in particular. I'd send her a short, sweet email along the lines of "Her behavior sounds perfectly normal for a 2yo who just became a big sister. You might want to check out {insert website here} for some more ideas on helping her through this transition. Kiss {insert goddaughter's name here} for me!

[MittensKittens]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

ITA with not bringing up spanking in particular. I'd send her a short, sweet email along the lines of "Her behavior sounds perfectly normal for a 2yo who just became a big sister. You might want to check out {insert website here} for some more ideas on helping her through this transition. Kiss {insert goddaughter's name here} for me!

I like that

[Litcrit]

Thank you all so much for the replies! I have very little time and have to be brief:

I just came back from my best friend's house, and, as she's my BEST friend, it's easy to talk openly, and we did. I gently brought it up and it went well. I'll write more tomorrow.

[1littlebit]

awesome! i am glad that it went well! things like this are so hard. it's great that you and your best friend can talk openly and kindly!