Women of Color #13 - Page 3

[AndrewsMother]

Originally Posted by bajamergrrl

No need for an essay - bullet points are fine.

My family is Caribbean so I admit my view is definitely colored by that.

A Caribbean background would make a difference.

I sometimes think that in some communites cloth diapering is viewed as old fashioned. Why would one want to wash poop when disposeables are so much easier? or Why would one want to breastfeed and tie themselves down when formula is easy and inexpensive? Or what is the benefit to co-sleeping, other than taking up space in my bed? And AP parenting.....I spank that a**.

No those are not my POV, just some that I have encountered.

Maybe what I am about to say is a stereotype of the Caribbean families that I know, but they all seem to discipline and handle their children on a day to day basis in a mild manner. My parenting role model is from the Caribbean and I love how she has raised her daughters. Her mom is my back up baby sitter, and I can trust that she will be firm, but loving and gentle with my son.
Rarely do I witness these traits in Black Americans when I am out and about.

My American friends seem to favor the belt and spanking over using mistakes as teaching moments.


I have Black friends that breastfed/feed, use disposeables, CIO, eat organic, spank and homeschool. They bf, eat organic because it is healthier, and they homeschool because they school system is not best for their families. And I guess that in their opinions CIO and spankings are best for their children too?

I use to want to find someone just like me, but I have realized that I will never find her!

[shayinme]

Originally Posted by bajamergrrl

Lately I've been thinking about mom's groups and playgroups since I'll soon be a mama. I can definitely find a group that's more AP/alternative/crunchy and I can find a group with other WOC. What I can't seem to find is a combination of the two, i.e. a group of WOC that is primarily AP/alternative/crunchy. I know these women must exist in my area since I've seen some brown faces pop up on a local ning site. Well, this got me thinking about why I don't see a lot of WOC mamas who aren't quite so mainstream.

1) Is it because what's considered alternative/crunchy/AP are things that WOC have been doing for a long time and don't think they're doing anything radical?

2) Is it because we feel pressure (subtle or overt) to conform to the predominant culture since we have minority status (in the US)?

3) Is it because alternative/crunchy/AP moms in general are a cultural minority right now and so it makes sense that there would be fewer WOC engaged in that culture?

These are just some of the questions swirling around in my head this morning. I guess I woke up feeling philosophical and reflective about my own upbringing and what led me to my current views . Feel free to expound on the subject...

I think we do exist (WOC who would be considered alternative/crunchy) but we are not out there as far as labelling ourselves as such. I had my eldest child in 1992, and I actually co-slept with him until he was 4 but I never would have thought it was some radical thing. Shoot, I grew up spending weekends with my grandparents and always slept with my Granny .

I grew up with a SAHM so cooking from scratch and being crafty while not my interests for many years are nothing new to me.

Even using medical alternatives, my Granny and folks swore by using castile soaps, cod liver oil, and so on. We have southern roots in my family but again all the things I have named are things that the NFL/AP movement talks about and for me were the norm.

Now where we parted ways is that I was formula fed, my eldest was formula fed but my youngest who will be 4 next month nursed until a few months ago.

I will be honest, I don't dig on talking parenting stuff so much IRL in part because heck I been doing now almost 18 years...I found MDC actually because I decided to use a midwife and that was new for me but funny thing my Pops was delivered at home by a midwife.

I suspect that unless you are in a area that has a high number of WOC where Mama groups with AP leanings may be the norm, you aren't going to find a lot of us at the parenting groups. When I had dd in 05, I tried to get involved with the local AP groups but being a WOC I felt like my race was an issue for others and I just did not want to deal with it. I have WOC friends all over the country and with the exception of like 1-2 most have AP/NFL leanings.

Shay

[Draupadi]

Originally Posted by Bloomingstar

Now I'm just reading product reviews of strollers...and I CANNOT believe how much a Bugaboo costs, and how many of them I used to see around where my old job is (Brooklyn Heights).

In Manhattan where I live and I know in lots of places in Bklyn, Bugaboos are around like a plague. Even if I could afford one, I would never get one on principle. They don't call Park Slope parents "Stroller Mafias" for nothing!
There are so many perfectly sturdy and good strollers to choose from that won't break the bank. Good luck!

[Draupadi]

Oh, and hi! I'm glad we started a new thread! :
I'm doing good these days, although I've been a little bored and considering getting William into some classes or something. I've also been considering entering a business venture with a friend. We're thinking of opening a drop-in babysitting service. It's still in the planning stages...
I'm on month 5 of ttc and of course, I'm very anxious. I'll be in the 2ww in a few days so please pray to the PTB for me. I thought I was pregnant last month (and almost think I had an early MC) but it was not to be.
William's beginning the terrible twos and is doing lots of howling and screaming high pitched enough to grate at your eardrums. It never lasts long, but they're definitely increasing in frequency. I think I'm handling it well, though. Despite being GD, I'm pretty strict. Ah...where did my little angel go?

[JustKiya]

Oh! New thread! Hello ladies!

Hiya Sorin - welcome to the wonderful and wild emotional rollercoaster that is TTC. One thing that I've gotta share with you as a fellow control freak - let it go. Seriously. You can't control it - you've just gotta guide it and provide as many opportunities for sperm to meet egg and be healthy - both mentally, emotionally, and physically.

May you concieve swiftly and easily, all the same! :

[rootzdawta]

• My old boss gave us a Maclaren Techno XT but it'd been living in her basement and she must not have known how filthy it was. I mean, I'd never give someone something so dirty. Or at all dirty. I mean it's so bad my DH refuses to touch it, and when I did it looked like I'd been playing in soot. I wish we had a yard so I could hose it down or something. I put it out in the rain today hoping that'd help it a bit. I can't get the padding off. I should probably get a bucket, spray bottle, etc. and keep trying since it's a perfectly good but FILTHY stroller. I'd prefer to have the baby facing in rather than out right now, and DH really wants to win this one and buy a stroller so I'll let him, but I can't seem to give up hope on the dirty one. Now I'm just reading product reviews of strollers...and I CANNOT believe how much a Bugaboo costs, and how many of them I used to see around where my old job is (Brooklyn Heights).

  Originally Posted by Bloomingstar

  Yeah, we're gonna go stroller shopping tomorrow. NYC is the second worse place I've lived humidity wise. (nowhere else I've lived tops New Orleans--you get outside for all of 5 seconds and wonder why you bothered to shower since you're already soaking wet ) I've already had a couple sweaty days with the Moby and it's not fun. Facing him outwards helps--but then he won't stop chattering and squeaking at people It's the cutest thing, albeit quite noisy.
  

• Too true, Bloomingstar, the humidity is murderous. Another excellent reason for a stroller. And like Arike said, I cannot stand using the stroller on the subway.
  
• Like you, I was dumbfounded at the cost of a Bugaboo. I think all the folks wheeling them around must know of some half price outlet place that I don't know about.
  
• Fwiw, I have a Maclaren Techno and it has served me so incredibly well. If you can manage to get that one clean (although I don't have any ideas how), it would serve you well.

• Originally Posted by Arike

  Hi Ladies!

Originally Posted by Arike

In the meantime, i am slowly but surely getting myself back together. I have been working out regularly for two weeks now, which based on my schedule working full-time and commuting is like a miracle for me. I just decided to suck it up and start getting up a little earlier and work out at home to DVDs. I just bought a new DVD set called ChaLean Extreme off of e-bay for cheap and I am excited to try it out. I belong to a gym, but I feel kind of ambivalent about going. I wanted to use a personal trainer who specializes in pre and post natal fitness but I decided it wasn't a necessity so I couldn't justify the cost. The cost of one session basically cost as much as my new DVD set and that includes 15 different workouts.
On another subject, do any of you ladies here use an IUD? I was supposed to get the Paragard IUD yesterday but my old OB-GYN office never sent over my PAP results from last year to my new OB-GYN/Midwifery office. So they told me this when I got to the office, "We never got your PAP results from your old provider so we can't put in the IUD." I am kind of like, if you sent a fax request and never got a response, why didn't you call the doctor's office or perhaps call me so I could follow up on the matter? I took a half day at work for that appointment and I didn't even end up getting any services rendered!: So now I don't even want to go back there because it just seems sort of incompetent to me. I miss my homebirth midwife...She doesn't really do well woman care because it actually is not financially lucrative for her for whatever reason. She just focuses on births so that's why I decided to branch out and find a midwifery/ob-gyn office to handle my "well woman" needs. Currently my form of family planning is abstinence. Poor DH...LOL

I am so proud of you for sucking it up and getting up early to exercise. : As you know, that's what I do and I am too proud of myself for doing it. It's not easy at all! Thanks for the DVD rec. I'm always looking for variety. Right now, I use Women's Health DVDs . . . I bought all of them for less than $50 on ebay and I am seeing great results not necessarily in weight loss but in toning, strength and endurance. Plus physically, I feel good. My digestive health is better and I am fighting off cold and infection like a champion.

As for the IUD, I got the paraguard in a few months ago after a huge struggle with the insurance company. I went to three different providers before I finally sucked it up and went to my regular provider. I eventually had to come out of pocket for $700 (but was reimbursed for $550 later). It hurt like hell going in and I was dizzy for a while after insertion. It was in for about two months before the thing came out of place. I realized this when I was on like day 58 or some foolishness. I had to have it removed and it could not be replaced. Money down the drain. While it was in, the periods I had were god-awful. Cramps. Such a heavy flow. But I know a few ladies who have it and are super pleased with it. Our current birth control are condoms and I hate, hate, hate it but I really don't want to do hormonal and I'm done with the IUD. DH says he's done having kids. I am at the point where I think I am too. When ds2 is 4/5 years old, we'll decide if a vasectomy is in order.

Originally Posted by AndrewsMother

DS has an immune system made of steel!!!

I hate all things nasty, dirty or gross and he trives on them. My boy!!!!!

LoL . . . DS2 also has an immune system of steel. He mouths everything. EVERYTHING. Especially things that are obviously dirty and nasty. It's cool though . . . the whole household could be sick and he just hiccups and keeps it moving.

[rootzdawta]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

Yes Sorin, everything will work out. What you're feeling probably has a lot less to do with logic and reason than it does with the fact that your hormones are in 'quiet mode' right now. Lots and lots and LOTS of women (i'd go so far as to say the overwhelming majority) experience a mild, bluesy-feeling when they menstruate, even if it's a perfectly normal, expected period. When you're TTC, it's even worse. You'll feel MUCH better seven to nine days from now. Everything will be upbeat and exciting, strong positive energy, etc.

This is very true Sorin. I know that I always find that feeling strange when my period comes and the LAST thing I need right now is another child.

Sending positivity and light your way!

[rootzdawta]

Originally Posted by bajamergrrl

Lately I've been thinking about mom's groups and playgroups since I'll soon be a mama. I can definitely find a group that's more AP/alternative/crunchy and I can find a group with other WOC. What I can't seem to find is a combination of the two, i.e. a group of WOC that is primarily AP/alternative/crunchy. I know these women must exist in my area since I've seen some brown faces pop up on a local ning site. Well, this got me thinking about why I don't see a lot of WOC mamas who aren't quite so mainstream.

1) Is it because what's considered alternative/crunchy/AP are things that WOC have been doing for a long time and don't think they're doing anything radical?

2) Is it because we feel pressure (subtle or overt) to conform to the predominant culture since we have minority status (in the US)?

3) Is it because alternative/crunchy/AP moms in general are a cultural minority right now and so it makes sense that there would be fewer WOC engaged in that culture?

These are just some of the questions swirling around in my head this morning. I guess I woke up feeling philosophical and reflective about my own upbringing and what led me to my current views . Feel free to expound on the subject...

My family is Nigerian though I was born here and no one is "crunchy". They think it's strange that I would want to babywear. Strange that I am "still" breastfeeding. Strange that DS2 sleeps in the bed with me. I have not been able to connect with any Nigerian folks on that alternative parenting tip.

In terms of Black Americans, most are mainstream. The ones that I know that are not have been RastafarI and since I have been a part of that community for a long time, I have never felt that isolated feeling, like I'm the only one in that regard. Outside of the RastafarI community though, just going about my business in my predominantly Black/Caribbean neighborhood, I definitely feel like the one and only and people most certainly look at me like I am strange. I can't speak to why that is but what you suggest make sense. I'd say it's probably a combination of all three of those points. If it is "crunchy" and we're doing it, it's not heralded as "AP" . . . it's just natural and what it is. Like carrying your baby on your back back home in Nigeria is not babywearing. It's carrying your baby on your back. I know that one major reason why my family here looks down on babywearing is because they think that it is somehow backwards when living in the modern U.S. There's strollers and car seats . . . formula and baby food. Why be backwards? Why not try to fit into what is "American"? And yeah, sheer numbers would be a really good reason why you don't see that many WOC who are into these "alternative parenting" practices. But we exist. We're out there.

[bajamergrrl]

Originally Posted by AndrewsMother

A Caribbean background would make a difference.

I sometimes think that in some communites cloth diapering is viewed as old fashioned. Why would one want to wash poop when disposeables are so much easier? or Why would one want to breastfeed and tie themselves down when formula is easy and inexpensive? Or what is the benefit to co-sleeping, other than taking up space in my bed? And AP parenting.....I spank that a**.

No those are not my POV, just some that I have encountered.

Maybe what I am about to say is a stereotype of the Caribbean families that I know, but they all seem to discipline and handle their children on a day to day basis in a mild manner. My parenting role model is from the Caribbean and I love how she has raised her daughters. Her mom is my back up baby sitter, and I can trust that she will be firm, but loving and gentle with my son.
Rarely do I witness these traits in Black Americans when I am out and about.

My American friends seem to favor the belt and spanking over using mistakes as teaching moments.


I have Black friends that breastfed/feed, use disposeables, CIO, eat organic, spank and homeschool. They bf, eat organic because it is healthier, and they homeschool because they school system is not best for their families. And I guess that in their opinions CIO and spankings are best for their children too?

I grew up in the Caribbean and spanking is considered a God-given right and necessity on my island. I'm a weirdo in my family for thinking it's unnecessary and not in the best interest of children. I'm of the opinion that this obsession with spanking might be a hold over from slavery days (no evidence to support that theory).

Originally Posted by shayinme

I think we do exist (WOC who would be considered alternative/crunchy) but we are not out there as far as labelling ourselves as such. I had my eldest child in 1992, and I actually co-slept with him until he was 4 but I never would have thought it was some radical thing. Shoot, I grew up spending weekends with my grandparents and always slept with my Granny .

I grew up with a SAHM so cooking from scratch and being crafty while not my interests for many years are nothing new to me.

Even using medical alternatives, my Granny and folks swore by using castile soaps, cod liver oil, and so on. We have southern roots in my family but again all the things I have named are things that the NFL/AP movement talks about and for me were the norm.

Now where we parted ways is that I was formula fed, my eldest was formula fed but my youngest who will be 4 next month nursed until a few months ago.

I will be honest, I don't dig on talking parenting stuff so much IRL in part because heck I been doing now almost 18 years...I found MDC actually because I decided to use a midwife and that was new for me but funny thing my Pops was delivered at home by a midwife.
Shay

This is similar to my experience. One thing that separates me from other members of my family is that I'm into midwifery care/homebirth. That was not a norm for me. Now that I'm pregnant I find out that my father and his five brothers were all born at home.

Originally Posted by rootzdawta

If it is "crunchy" and we're doing it, it's not heralded as "AP" . . . it's just natural and what it is. Like carrying your baby on your back back home in Nigeria is not babywearing. It's carrying your baby on your back. I know that one major reason why my family here looks down on babywearing is because they think that it is somehow backwards when living in the modern U.S. There's strollers and car seats . . . formula and baby food. Why be backwards? Why not try to fit into what is "American"? And yeah, sheer numbers would be a really good reason why you don't see that many WOC who are into these "alternative parenting" practices. But we exist. We're out there.

I know what you mean. Co-sleeping is not a term you hear in my family. I think you hit the nail on the head about mainstream practices being embraced in an effort not to be backward. I suspect (and this is a generalization) that maybe this is a way to defeat stereotypes that portray Africans as being primitive and backward. It also occurred to me that a lot of these crunchy practices were done out of necessity or poverty and abandoning those practices is a way of embracing Western middle class values. I'll admit, when I first heard about co-sleeping in a glorified manner I was confused because I associated it with more with doing it out of necessity not because of childhood development.

[cocoanib]

Hi ladies!
What an awesome tribe!
DH and I are ttc #1, so I'll be doing alot of lurking and listening.

[Sorin]

Welcome Cocoanib!

DH and I are TTC #1 as well (I posted on the previous page about my weird freak out that I didn't get pregnant after 2 weeks of trying ). To all the ladies who told me to chill out, particularly since my freak out might be hormone related--you were right! AF is now over, and I'm back to feeling like my normal, upbeat self again. Everything will be cool; it will happen. I've let go of the control thing, and plan on having fun makin' some babies! Now DH just has to return from being out of town!

[kimiij]

I didn't realize there was a new thread! I'm just checking in here and subbing .

[purplegirl]

Originally Posted by cocoanib

Hi ladies!
What an awesome tribe!
DH and I are ttc #1, so I'll be doing alot of lurking and listening.

Welcome and lots of baby dust to ya

[cocoanib]

Originally Posted by Sorin

DH and I are TTC #1 as well (I posted on the previous page about my weird freak out that I didn't get pregnant after 2 weeks of trying ). To all the ladies who told me to chill out, particularly since my freak out might be hormone related--you were right! AF is now over, and I'm back to feeling like my normal, upbeat self again. Everything will be cool; it will happen. I've let go of the control thing, and plan on having fun makin' some babies! Now DH just has to return from being out of town!

We will have to learn to go with the flow together

Originally Posted by purplegirl

Welcome and lots of baby dust to ya

Thanx! :

[purplegirl]

Would you all indulge me? How long did you know your DP before marrying him? I had an interesting discussion with a friend about this and thus, I am curious to see what others experiences have been. Thanks!

[bajamergrrl]

DH and I got married almost 3 years after we first met.

[cocoanib]

We knew each other about 4 years before we got married.

[shayinme]

Originally Posted by purplegirl

Would you all indulge me? How long did you know your DP before marrying him? I had an interesting discussion with a friend about this and thus, I am curious to see what others experiences have been. Thanks!

Two years we had been dating before we got married.

[eilonwy]

Mike and I had known one another for two or three years... I can't really remember which. I've known tHRH since December and I'm ready to throw the towel in, he's entirely too perfect. I'm so in love. :

[olliepop]

Originally Posted by purplegirl

Would you all indulge me? How long did you know your DP before marrying him? I had an interesting discussion with a friend about this and thus, I am curious to see what others experiences have been. Thanks!

DH and I moved in together after dating for two months. Then lived together for 5 years before getting married. We've been married for 11 years now.