You're not going to believe this... - Page 3

[OceansEve]

I can understand this is someone you probably know through church and putting your child in her care is the secondary relationship. Having said that. Everything happens for a reason. What if this is the chance for a very bad occurance to be avoided? You always hear stories after things have gone wrong - "looking back - this happened - I should have known" etc. What if this is one of those? I'll assume since you say church you are christian (I must preface this that I am not) but from all I have read of the bible in my life isn't there a scripture that says doing the right thing is often the hardest and most uncomfortable? Even if it means facing ridicule. What is your alternative? Inform all the other parents what happened and hope she learned her lesson when most of them remove their children from her care? I personally would have a hard time sitting quietly and not doing anything

[Evergreen]

I am going to relay a story I haven't told her at MDC. When my oldest was two we tried two in home day cares. The first one had lots of warning signals. DD had been fully potty trained at home, for my parents, and other sitters for over a year but would pee and poop in her pants every single time she went at this lady's house. One time I dropped her off and there were 10 kids there. That seemed like an awful lot to me. Another time I picked her up early and the kids were all outside (oldest was three) she was inside cooking their lunches. I was a student and at the time all other day cares had year long waiting lists. Finally, one day she told me she had to spank dd- because she'd poured water out of her cup and licked it up pretending to be a cat. I called everyone I knew trying to get her a new daycare for exam week. Nothing. I had to take exams so I brought her back. It's been over 4 years and I still regret it every day even though 1. nothing happened as a result of the poor supervision and 2. dd told me the spanking didn't even hurt- she was wearing a diaper at the time. Anyway, I decided eventually to file a complaint as licensed centers are not allowed to hit or leave children unsupervised. It turns out she wasn't even licensed and they knew about her but couldn't do anything until someone reported her. I was the one to report her. The point is I had red flags and ignored them and still regret it.

[JudiAU]

I think you should pull her now and receive a refund and an apology.

I think both unstructured play and structured are fine at this age. But if you prefer the later you should look at a preschool that accepts 2 year olds. You would probably be happier with a program.

[greengirl_]

Originally Posted by annekevdbroek

The fact that they were in highchairs actually makes it worse in my mind because they are immobilized and it suggests to me that she does this routinely (she has worked out a system to keep the kids in once place while she goes about her day).

This was my thought exactly. She's obviously done this before, and she knew it was wrong because she was nervous and making excuses to your dh. I wouldn't take my child back there and I would definatly report her to the state. She may have other complaints against her and this may be the last straw, you never know. It would be too bad for her if she lost her license because of this, but she is putting the health and well-being of other people's kids at risk. Is there a way to file an anonymous complaint?

[amandaleigh37]

PLEASE do something so she doesn't endanger another child. Do you know the other parents? Can you contact them?

How would you feel if you found out another parent stopped by unannounced a few weeks earlier & saw something equally neglectful? And just quietly pulled her child out and never did anything about it, or told the other parents....... What must happen before something changes? A child getting seriously injured?

ETA: Yes, pull her out! And demand a refund. The fact that she knew it was wrong is irrelevant really. Either she knew it was not safe to leave them alone, in which case she is just negligent. Or she "didn't know", in which case she has very poor common sense and should not be watching young children anyway. She may be a good person, but she is not a good babysitter!

[MacKinnon]

Quality child care is a HUGE issue for me. I pay roughly half of my income to have my children in, what I consider, the most fabulous program ever. I would definitly pull your child. I know that it can be hard, but there is no excuse for that. Reporting, is of course, your call. But I would not send my child back, and I would ask to lift the 2 week notice penalty. I did NOT choose home day care due to my fear of the lack of oversight. I would strongly encourage you to really look at all of your options. Although I wanted the play based environment that home day care offers, I did not feel comfortable with the lack of oversight. So, I found a wonderful center based program that I am 100% confident provides great care for my kids. For me, working out of the home requires incredible confidence in my child care situation. I pay through the teeth and drive WAY out of my way to make that happen. I'm not sure that home based care is going to be the right fit for your family, I would be looking at all options! Good luck, and hugs Mama... It's SO hard to find the right fit for your most precious little people.

[pauletoy]

Please don't take your child back there!!!

[meemee]

Originally Posted by Inspired007

We were paying about $60 less per week for this current daycare than the first.

i have not read all the replies. but unfortunately in my experience i have discovered you get what you paid for. i went thru a bunch of daycares till finally there was a place in the one i hadnt really wanted because it was a preschool/daycare center rather than inhome daycare. however my dd was happiest there and i never ever questioned the care.

however the place cost me more than my rent. i was dirt poor all those years but oh man did i have peace of mind when i left my dd. i never had to question her quality of care. NEVER EVER!!! if it hadnt been so expensive i would have kept her in that ps for preK and skipped K.

[Breeder]

Silence is acceptance.

By not reporting her you are allowing her to continue putting children at risk.

Those little ones need someone to stand up for them. Please be that person. You are strong enough to do the right thing.

[lovebug]

what were the kiddos doing? just sitting there? eating? playing with toys?

I would have went OFF! i would pass on the 2 weeks an i would MAKE SURE i received a refund. you are paying her (and the other moms and dads) to WATCH your DD NOT to do yard work! if she wants to get paid to do yard work then she needs to become a landscaper! those poor babies!

Best of luck to you! i truly hope you take action on this s

[runes]

Originally Posted by saimeiyu

Diplomacy my big toe. If your church is screwed up enough to get all mad at you for being concerned about the WELFARE OF CHILDREN there's something seriously wrong with it.

If you do not report her, you are morally responsible of one of those kids gets hurt. End of story.

Silence means you approve.

:

She may be a member of the same church, but goodness forbid something bad happened to a baby after you saw what was happening in her home but didn't report it. Do NOT let the social pressure of going to the same church deter you from reporting this woman for an ILLEGAL, DANGEROUS VIOLATION of daycare mandates.

And in your shoes, I would absolutely not go back. You can request a refund, but even if you don't get it, please do not let your child be watched by this woman again.

[Inspired007]

Okay so here's the deal.

I must have assumed she was licensed by the state. As I said, we had a personal relationship with her before my daughter began going there and I never really asked. I made the assumption based on some information she told me about getting government assistance. I thought that in order to get that, you must be licensed. Actually, I just learned that in TN, you don't have to have a daycare license if you don't take care of more than four children who aren't related to you. Typically, she watches about four to five children, with one or two being relatives. So that exempts her from having to carry a license.

So, no recourse there.

Yesterday, i stayed home from work b/c this has obviously upset me and DH and I thought it best for both of us to go and talk to her.

We went and she was genuinely surprised that we'd pull out daughter from her care over this. She said that she was "right there" and that most of the work done had been done before the kids got there, but a few pieces were left and she "had to get them". That's when I almost clocked b/c there you have the big difference in mind set. I interjected and said "See, no, you didn't HAVE to get them. You left those children in there alone." My husband elbowed me so I would calm down. My blood pressure was rising a tad, I must admit. She responded that she didn’t leave them alone. To which I said, “Oh, you had another adult in there?” She says, “No my little cousin was there watching them,” Um, she’s 7 and I don’t pay her to watch my daughter, I pay you.

So obviously, we have parenting that is completely at odds with one another here. In her mind, she was “right there” which isn’t true to me. She may have felt she was a reasonable distance from the house, but Dh said that she was near the curb, pulling weeds. That’s unacceptable to me. Maybe not to her, but that’s waaay over the top in my parenting book. Also, the comment where she said she “had” to get them is just a blatant clue that she is warped in her way of prioritizing her tasks. Also, to have your little cousin watching babies you are being paid to care for is beyond me. This mentality is just plain ignorant, and sadly, it abounds all over the world.

Now, I do want to make clear that I do believe this woman has a gentle heart and loves these children and IMO is a good person. Everyone's standard of what it takes to raise a child and babysit is different and IMO this isn't a situation where she didn't give a hoot about the kids. I honestly think she thought what she had done was okay since she strapped them in and had a 7 y/o watch them. I'm not saying it was the bright thing to do, but it wasn't mal-intentioned. My opinion of her level of common sense has certainly changed, but I don't think she actually meant these children any harm, for whatever that's worth.

I only say this to say that I do think intentions matter some. Not enough for me to keep my daughter there, however.

Also, I want to comment on the fact that when I mentioned that she goes to my church, it wasn’t to say that I fear retaliation or ridicule. Maybe you won’t understand this, but belonging to a church is like a family in a lot of ways. You don’t do things rashly without taking into account the effect it will have on your family or the soul in question. I don’t want to do anything that will negatively affect God’s kingdom so these types of things aren’t done casually or impulsively.

This of course, is not a good situation for any child to be in, and I plan on being honest if asked why I took my daughter out. Several other church members bring their children to her and I am anticipating their curiosity. I also have a sneaking suspicion that a few of the other parents won’t necessarily agree that this is a deal breaker. I think that some of the parents trust this woman explicitly. They had some long standing ties with her since she has watched several generations of kids they know. She’s been in business 14 years.

I don’t expect everyone in this forum to understand or agree with my actions to not picket her home or do any other bold type action protest to this.

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by Inspired007

You don’t do things rashly without taking into account the effect it will have on your family or the soul in question. I don’t want to do anything that will negatively affect God’s kingdom so these types of things aren’t done casually or impulsively. .

But what about the effect it's having on the other children, and God forbid something happens to one of htem, the children's souls? I just....I don't understand how you can be upset enough to pull your own daughter, but leave other kids there without doing anything else. Religion has nothing to do with this, IMO. This is about safety, and kids who are young enough to be in highchairs, unable to speak up for themselves. I realize you don't want to slander this woman, but there has to be a middle ground somewhere...the other parents somehow need to know what's happening and then decide for *themselves* if this is acceptable for a paid care provider or not. If it is, it's their business and their call. But if it's not, as it's unacceptable to you, but they have no idea because they're never told by anyone, how can they even make the call??

[amandaleigh37]

I think it's great that you went to confront her about this. From the way she was making excuses, it seems obvious that she thinks that is an acceptable standard of care... which would only make me wonder what else she thinks is "ok". But I'm glad your child won't be going back...

the other parents somehow need to know what's happening and then decide for *themselves* if this is acceptable for a paid care provider or not.

I agree with this comment. Put yourself in their shoes. If it were another parent that made this discovery.... wouldn't you want to know?

[Inspired007]

So what exactly would you have me to do in this instance?

[SandraS]

This is probably not the right answer, but frankly, she needs EDUCATED. She needs told, in no fancy way, that her theories are wrong.

And really, at this point, after talking with her, I'd be out front of her home the next weekday morning educating her customers.

The fact she doesn't even realize that this would be unacceptable to her clients stuns me.

[IlluminatedAttic]

Even if she isn't licensed by the state there is still a state agency that would oversee an investigation of the care she is providing. In some states it is CPS and in others it is a segment of the licensing board. Call and find out then report what happened. The situation will be investigated and the other parents given a chance to tell how they view her care. She may be shut down or her long positive history may be taken into account and she may just be required to submit to future inspections or to undergo further training. In our state ongoing training is subsidized even for these small number/unlicensed daycares so there may be a similar program in yours.

[4Blessings]

Originally Posted by IlluminatedAttic

Even if she isn't licensed by the state there is still a state agency that would oversee an investigation of the care she is providing. In some states it is CPS and in others it is a segment of the licensing board. Call and find out then report what happened. The situation will be investigated and the other parents given a chance to tell how they view her care. She may be shut down or her long positive history may be taken into account and she may just be required to submit to future inspections or to undergo further training. In our state ongoing training is subsidized even for these small number/unlicensed daycares so there may be a similar program in yours.

^^^Exactly.^^^

And next time you look for care call the state and get a list of licensed providers to interview. Don't assume the provider is licensed.

[The4OfUs]

I guess I'd either straight up tell her that you're not sure if others would be OK in the situation you weren't OK in, and you feel like they should know what's going on, so maybe she should send some kind of letter home with the kids, Okaying with the parents that they can be left inside in a highchair while she finishes up yardwork and a 7 yo is supervising. I mean, if she sees nothing wrong with it, she shoudln't have a problem sending a letter out for that, KWIM? If she does have a problem sending out a letter like that, then I might figure out some way of contacting other parents and letting them know...not in a gossipy, evil way but in a 'this bothered me, and I think every parent should be able to decide for themselves if this is a standard of care acceptable for them" way. I know if *I* was another parent, I would want to know, because it *wouldn't* be OK with me. Whether she outs herself, or you out her, if I was one of the other parents I would not be comfortable with it either, and if I knew you knew and didn't say anything, I'd be pretty upset.

I'm not saying it is goignto be easy, or pleasant...but nonetheless, you have information about other people's kids beign treated in a way soem of them might find as questionable as you do, so IMO you're obligated to somehow let those parents decide for themselves whether it's OK or not. I can think more on a diplomatic way to approach people if you want, I'd be happy to help you brainstorm since I'm advocating you find some way to alert other parents.

[olliepop]

I also have a sneaking suspicion that a few of the other parents won’t necessarily agree that this is a deal breaker. I think that some of the parents trust this woman explicitly. They had some long standing ties with her since she has watched several generations of kids they know. She’s been in business 14 years.

I wonder if any other parents have walked in on her neglecting their children (and yours) and never even batted an eyelash. How long has she been doing this and how far has she gone? Has she ever "just run next door" for a cup of sugar? What about "running to the store" for milk, leaving the 7 year old adult in charge? Where does it end? I don't trust her judgment at all.