What to do with a completely shaded back yard?

[changingseasons]

We're buying a house this month. I'm really excited because I'll finally have a place for a garden!

Here's the problem.... the front yard gets full sun almost the entire day, but is really small. Working around all the landscaping that's already there, I might be able to get a 4'x8' bed in there. I would really like to have a larger garden though.

The back yard (which is very large), is completely shaded by one tree growing smack dab in the center of the yard. There are also trees/shrubs around the perimeter, but this one tree is shading the majority of the yard.

I don't really like the idea of cutting down a tree , but I would really like to get some sun in the back yard not only for a garden, but for us to enjoy and play in as well.

Any ideas?

[Rhiannon Feimorgan]

Sometimes an arborist (sp? tree specialist) can cut strategic branches to let in more light without cutting down the whole tree.

[JamieCatheryn]

In addition to possibly thinning the tree, lettuce, other greens, and many herbs would thrive back there in part or full shade.

[alllyssa]

We did a major renovation on our home a couple of years ago and in the process, cleared out several large trees in our backyard. It was the best thing we ever did! We couldn't even get grass to grow on one side of our yard before the trees were out - it got all mossy. The shade also made it cold, so it had to be a really hot day for it to be comfortable playing in the baby pool naked

[Talula Fairie]

I'm dealing with this. My entire backyard is shaded by a tree. However, some sun does get through. I've clocked it, and it gets about 7, maybe 8, hours of dappled sunlight per day. 4 of those being really decent sun. My plants are a touch on the spindly side, and I can't grow any plant that is thin to begin with as a result. I actually have the MOST trouble with herbs, dunno what the deal with that is. I can keep them alive but they won't grow that much. My lettuce died, I was surprised about that...but it is also probably too hot right now for lettuce

Stuff that seems to grow well: tomatoes, squash, bush beans, mint (but where DOESN'T mint grow well? ), tarragon. Stuff that tanked for me: radish, carrots, lettuce (but it's probably too hot), parsley (go figure that one out!). Basil, rosemary, dill, eggplant are growing kinda ok. The tomatoes and squash are doing the best. Basically, my advice is to grow whatever sounds good to you and see if it lives. That and try to expand your garden in your front yard best you can. When in doubt, do containers all over the place

[kittywitty]

We are dealing with this in our new house we are moving to. There are so many younger trees in the yard. It was poorly planned out and they are all ornamental and all over all the good garden areas. I truly hate cutting down trees but I think we will be cutting down a few. There's a dead cherry tree, ornamental plum, and some others, but it will allow us to plant useful things like fruit trees and a garden. We can't even plant in the front because there is an ancient walnut tree across the street that completely blocks all light to our house from the east.

I was reading up on good shade plants and it looks like some stuff will grow more in the shade, but you're out of luck for a lot of it. Just do a search for "shade gardens" and it will pull up a lot of ideas.

[changingseasons]

Thanks for all the ideas!

I'm not sure about cutting it back, just because it's SO big and SO dead center in the yard- they would really have to butcher it to get anything more than the far corners of the yard any sunshine.

I'm thinking maybe we could cut it down and then plant a smaller fruit tree in a better location. That way I wouldn't feel quite as bad about cutting the tree (since I'll be replacing it), and we'll have some fresh fruit in a few years, and we'll still have a small amount of shade if we need it.

[Talula Fairie]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

Thanks for all the ideas!

I'm not sure about cutting it back, just because it's SO big and SO dead center in the yard- they would really have to butcher it to get anything more than the far corners of the yard any sunshine.

I'm thinking maybe we could cut it down and then plant a smaller fruit tree in a better location. That way I wouldn't feel quite as bad about cutting the tree (since I'll be replacing it), and we'll have some fresh fruit in a few years, and we'll still have a small amount of shade if we need it.

That sounds like a great idea!!! Oh how I would love to have an apple, lemon, or lime tree in my yard.

[mindymom]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

I'm thinking maybe we could cut it down and then plant a smaller fruit tree in a better location.

One thing you might want to give some thought to is how this change will affect the energy usage of your home. I'm all in favor of getting rid of nuisance trees, it's just that a friend of a friend did this and regretted it.
good luck to you.

[kittywitty]

Of course there is still the point of what kind of tree it is. An oak, though my favorite and absolutely wonderful will kill your garden. OP, do you know what kind it is?

[vermontmomma]

i'd keep the tree if at all possible, a fruit tree could be very nice but would take a long time to mature, wont shade/protect your home as much in the meantime, and you would probibly need several planted to pollinate for fruit production.
for salad greens try arugala, it's ok in shade.
i would turn the front yard into the vegtable patch. many foods are really pretty like decorative peppers, giant dinasour kale, and cherry tomatoes. i saw a beautiful lettuce bed at a house beforeright next to the front yard, all different colors bunched together.
keep the back as a shadey sanctuary for relaxing and playing. columbines, rhodadendrons, impatians, violas, hostas and ferns would be lovely planted in a circle around the trunk with some mulch.

homesteading new momma : : green mountains : aspiring novelist and children's book author
***U.S. OUT OF V.T.***

[jtsmom]

Honestly, I think you should live there for a year or more before you make any major decisions about the tree. When we moved into this house I had an idea that areas were not actually as shaded/sunny as they were. It took a while to actually see what happens throughout the year with the sun/shade. In the meantime, either build a small bed out front for veggies, buy a csa share, or start a container garden.

Then, the way I see it, these are your choices:

1~tear out the front landscaping and make it a totally edible landscape and leave the tree out back alone. Use the back yard and it's tree to the fullest. It won't live forever no matter what you decide, so you could appreciate it while it's there. Set up a picnic table or sitting area for your family to eat and get out of the sun. No sunscreen! Hang a rope swing from it's branches. Build a tree house in it. Let your kids climb it and give it a name. (my kids have named several trees in their lifetimes...) If your kids are little, hang a baby swing from the branches. Attach (without hurting the tree) a ladder to one side and a slide to the other. Lay down a picnic blanket and teach your kids yoga under it. Bring out a stack of books to read under the tree. Lay down while your kids read to you and look through the leaves at the sky. Is the tree useful in any other way? Could you tap it for sap/syrup? Are there a few branches that need to be trimmed that could be useful, like, maybe garden supports, fencing, firewood, a teepee? Throw your arms around it and tell it you love it?

2~leave the front landscaping alone and cut down the tree out back. Pay thousands of dollars (it is very expensive and dangerous work, it may also cause damage to your house and the surrounding land to get a big bucket truck into the back yard) and have the tree removed. Either pay someone to remove all the debris and grind the stump, or do it yourself, then bring in loads of dirt from somewhere else to build it up so you can plant your garden back there. But my guess is you'd be working around roots for the rest of your life.

It's probably clear which one I would choose. I know, for myeslf, that some of the MOST incredible *from a distance* experiences I've had with my kids is when they were up in a tree. I have so enjoyed watching my kids climb trees and make believe with them, that unless it was threatening to come down and crush the house, I would not remove it. Maybe this may not be the house for you? Maybe you need a house that has a large sunny backyard and this house is meant for someone who wants a nicely landscaped frontyard and a deeply shaded backyard.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by mindymom

One thing you might want to give some thought to is how this change will affect the energy usage of your home. I'm all in favor of getting rid of nuisance trees, it's just that a friend of a friend did this and regretted it.
good luck to you.

Originally Posted by vermontmomma

i'd keep the tree if at all possible, a fruit tree could be very nice but would take a long time to mature, wont shade/protect your home as much in the meantime, and you would probibly need several planted to pollinate for fruit production.

I should clarify first that there are MANY trees on the property- both front and back yard. So we will still have plenty of shade on and around our house. It's just that this one particular tree shades the entire back yard. So I wouldn't be getting rid of our only source of shade.

Originally Posted by kittywitty

Of course there is still the point of what kind of tree it is. An oak, though my favorite and absolutely wonderful will kill your garden. OP, do you know what kind it is?

I honestly have no idea. I will take some pictures next time I get out to the house (we're still in process of closing) and post them.

Originally Posted by jtsmom

Honestly, I think you should live there for a year or more before you make any major decisions about the tree. When we moved into this house I had an idea that areas were not actually as shaded/sunny as they were. It took a while to actually see what happens throughout the year with the sun/shade. In the meantime, either build a small bed out front for veggies, buy a csa share, or start a container garden.

Then, the way I see it, these are your choices:

1~tear out the front landscaping and make it a totally edible landscape and leave the tree out back alone. Use the back yard and it's tree to the fullest. It won't live forever no matter what you decide, so you could appreciate it while it's there. Set up a picnic table or sitting area for your family to eat and get out of the sun. No sunscreen! Hang a rope swing from it's branches. Build a tree house in it. Let your kids climb it and give it a name. (my kids have named several trees in their lifetimes...) If your kids are little, hang a baby swing from the branches. Attach (without hurting the tree) a ladder to one side and a slide to the other. Lay down a picnic blanket and teach your kids yoga under it. Bring out a stack of books to read under the tree. Lay down while your kids read to you and look through the leaves at the sky. Is the tree useful in any other way? Could you tap it for sap/syrup? Are there a few branches that need to be trimmed that could be useful, like, maybe garden supports, fencing, firewood, a teepee? Throw your arms around it and tell it you love it?

2~leave the front landscaping alone and cut down the tree out back. Pay thousands of dollars (it is very expensive and dangerous work, it may also cause damage to your house and the surrounding land to get a big bucket truck into the back yard) and have the tree removed. Either pay someone to remove all the debris and grind the stump, or do it yourself, then bring in loads of dirt from somewhere else to build it up so you can plant your garden back there. But my guess is you'd be working around roots for the rest of your life.

It's probably clear which one I would choose. I know, for myeslf, that some of the MOST incredible *from a distance* experiences I've had with my kids is when they were up in a tree. I have so enjoyed watching my kids climb trees and make believe with them, that unless it was threatening to come down and crush the house, I would not remove it. Maybe this may not be the house for you? Maybe you need a house that has a large sunny backyard and this house is meant for someone who wants a nicely landscaped frontyard and a deeply shaded backyard.

First of all - :. This absolutely is the house for me and my family, and we ARE going to be living there. I haven't made any decisions yet, and don't plan to immediately. I'm not just going to send in the troops to chop things down before I even move in. I'm just thinking out loud here and asking for opinions. Also- I'm curious where you get the thousands of dollars price? My realtor just arranged for tree removal for another one of her clients and it was a few hundred dollars- including grinding the stump. (I honestly have no idea what is normal- I've never priced these things.)

Again- I'm not trying to rid the property of all forms of life. There are trees on both sides of the back yard, and a couple in the front as well. I'm only talking about (possibly) removing the one tree smack dab in the middle of the back yard.

[jtsmom]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

First of all - :. This absolutely is the house for me and my family, and we ARE going to be living there. I haven't made any decisions yet, and don't plan to immediately. I'm not just going to send in the troops to chop things down before I even move in. I'm just thinking out loud here and asking for opinions. Also- I'm curious where you get the thousands of dollars price? My realtor just arranged for tree removal for another one of her clients and it was a few hundred dollars- including grinding the stump. (I honestly have no idea what is normal- I've never priced these things.)

Again- I'm not trying to rid the property of all forms of life. There are trees on both sides of the back yard, and a couple in the front as well. I'm only talking about (possibly) removing the one tree smack dab in the middle of the back yard.

Wow. You asked for thoughts/advice/opinions. I thought my post was pretty well thought out as I rattled off the millions of pros and cons that popped into my mind. I didn't mean to offend you at all. Good luck. I hope you and your family will be happy in your new home.

:

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by jtsmom

Wow. You asked for thoughts/advice/opinions. I thought my post was pretty well thought out as I rattled off the millions of pros and cons that popped into my mind. I didn't mean to offend you at all. Good luck. I hope you and your family will be happy in your new home.

:

Sorry, I missed all the pros of cutting down the tree in your post- they all seemed like cons and that I would be crazy for even considering it.

I was honestly asking about the price thing, because I don't have any idea what a normal price range is for tree removal.

[dillonandmarasmom]

We really had hoped the street work here recently would have killed our tree, resulting in their having to remove it for us...but, this tree is unkillable (word?)!

So, I have been researching inexpensive ways to have it removed. I came upon these:
http://www.stretcher.com/stories/03/03apr21b.cfm

Some good thoughts. Could be helpful to you.

I hate to remove shade, but our tree (a fruitless mulberry) grows about 10 feet each year, gets tangled in the power lines, and kills everything below it. We are hoping to one day have a front yard full of fruit trees and food-bearing plants.

[changingseasons]

Thanks for that link! Those are some good ideas.

[dillonandmarasmom]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

Thanks for that link! Those are some good ideas.

You are so welcome! Good luck.

[cristeen]

Honestly, the first thing to do for me would be identifying the tree (is it a fast grower, is it messy, is it a protected species, does it produce a crop, etc.). Then have it checked for soundness and whether or not it could be thinned. Around here, some types of large trees really increase property values, while others don't - but a tree that's sick/not sound is a risk and needs to come out anyway. Also check with your city about removal - in some areas (and with some breeds of tree) you need a permit to even trim.

Once I've done all that, (depending on what I found, obviously) I'd probably have it thinned, cut back a bit and watch the yard - see how the sunlight plays out for the season. And then decide whether or not to have it pulled out during the winter. If it's a messy tree (like a mulberry) or a tree that poisons the ground (like a black walnut), then I'd pull it. If it's an oak or a willow (or most fruiting/crop trees), I'd try thinning and trimming first. If it's a protected species (like the redwood I have in my back yard), then you may not have a choice - it can't be removed, and you'll have to work around it.

And if thinning and trimming and working around are all you can do - then look into putting some beds around the edges where you do get sun, and start researching some shade-loving edibles. I know my strawberries seem to love the shade - that's what will be going under our redwood, and the woman who runs the nursery I shop at had several other suggestions for me, also (strawberries just happen to be my favorite).

[changingseasons]

Thanks cristeen- great ideas. Since it's taking so long to close on this house, I will just put a small garden in the front yard for the 2nd half of summer. So I'll have time to watch the back yard and see how much sun (if any) actually gets through. Then we can make a decision this winter.

Maybe tomorrow I will swing by the house and take some pictures of the tree.