Taunting

[dflanag2]

DS is almost 5 and all he wants to do these days is taunt
DD, who is almost 3 years old. He takes her toys, messes them up, runs away with them, etc. and includes verbal taunts; "Look what I have!" etc. The resulting screeching and sobbing are driving me to insanity. I try not to react, but DD has been coming to me asking for help while this is going on. Suggestions?

I'm hoping it gets better next week when DS goes to half-day camp. I've been keeping us busy with a variety of fun and interesting things to do, but it hasn't been enough, apparently. He has been in a perpetual bad mood recently.

How do you all handle this?

[ssh]

I only have one LO still at home. My DD is 3.5 and if she is playing with other kids she has to play nicely. If she can't play nicely she can play alone. If we have people over that can mean go to her room or sit on my lap. If we're out, we leave. I don't do time outs, but I think "you can go to your room and play alone until you remember how to treat people" is a social natural consequence.

Your son is probably bored and the reactions are probably amusing. It's normal behavior, but your DD saying "you can't treat me like that" is normal behavior too. You telling your son he can't treat people like that is a good social lesson. You could discuss how other people will treat him and think of him if he continues being rude or acts like a bully. Discuss how he would feel if people grabbed his stuff and taunted him.

[sebandg'smama]

Speaking from the perspective of the younger sibling I can't stand the leave it alone to figure out between them approach to sibling rivalry.
My sister got away with bullying me because she was bigger and stronger. I learned that to survive I need to find ways to manipulate.
I really wish my mother had facilitated better communication skills for us both!

So with my kids if they can't play well together, they are never unsupervised.

[dflanag2]

Well, it gets tricky. I used to intervene more, but DD would 'let' DS steal her toy again, it seemed like a game that she was enjoying despite the screeching. I've told her to tell me if she wants help; if the teasing/taunting has gone too far, and that is what she is doing now.

DS is a challenge when it comes to any discipline whatsoever. If I want him to go to his room, I have to physically carry him there, and when he gets there he either follows me back downstairs or throws stuff at the walls. It is only effective when I can sit with him holding his hands until he cools off. Boredom is quite effective, it just takes time I sometimes don't have (especially if DD is downstairs crying and needs comfort.)

I asked him yesterday how he would feel if someone bigger took his toys and laughed at him, and he went into this story of how the kid would run away but that Mommy would run after him and get the toy back. I asked whether that is what I should do when he takes DD's toys? It wasn't computing.

The main thing that is working right now are threats to take away priviledges. I need you to play nicely w/DD or you will not be allowed to help me make the pizza for lunch. We need to follow the rules at the library, or you will not be allowed to check out any DVDs. I feel ambivalent about this technique, but I will say that it is working. Today's good behavior is a result of our agreement to go to the store on Sunday to buy a small toy that he has been requesting for weeks.

These thoughts are helpful, thanks! I just don't know what else to do...

[ssh]

Have you tried giving DD more attention when he's being rude? For example you could say something like "Sorry your brother doesn't want to play nice right now. Would you like to go paint (or something special the two of you could do). The sending him to his room doesn't seem to work. If he's doing it because your DD's and your reactions are funny going off and just doing something without him would be more boring ....... maybe.

Reading your second post again, it could be it starts out as play and then just got out of hand. Also your DD could be becoming more sensitive to the teasing. If the "game" was alright with her and now it isn't, that would be confusing to your DS. My DD is 3.5 and has become really emotionally sensitive the last few months.

[philomom]

Yep, separate them or find a preschool for your son. Do protect your daughter from his meanness.

[mom2grrls]

I would get more involved in their play for now. Perhaps introduce new games they can play together, he may just be bored.

[hipumpkins]

I don't think kids can necessarily work it out on their own until they have life skills for that and an understanding of empathy.
We work everyday attaching, "use respectful language"
Consider intentions, IE: if someone was throwing a ball and you got hit with it, that person did not hit you with the ball. It's a tricky line.

We do work towards working it out but with little help from me to get the dialog going;
I ask the questions:
"Whats going on?"
Both kids get a chance to talk
I repeat back what each kid saying and ask the other, "Can you understand how (or why) she (he) feels that way?"
How would you feel if....
What do you want to do about it?

I do not always get a lovely little discussion with happy cheerful agreeable kids. Sometimes I get crazy answers, sometimes I get too much screaming and sometimes one kid refuses to budge but the precedent is set that this is the way to negotiate.

Some days I hear work even without me.

[dflanag2]

Originally Posted by ssh

Have you tried giving DD more attention when he's being rude? For example you could say something like "Sorry your brother doesn't want to play nice right now. Would you like to go paint (or something special the two of you could do). The sending him to his room doesn't seem to work. If he's doing it because your DD's and your reactions are funny going off and just doing something without him would be more boring ....... maybe.

Reading your second post again, it could be it starts out as play and then just got out of hand. Also your DD could be becoming more sensitive to the teasing. If the "game" was alright with her and now it isn't, that would be confusing to your DS. My DD is 3.5 and has become really emotionally sensitive the last few months.

I think these factors may be coming into play. While working w/DS to reduce the teasing/taunting, I've also been reminding DD to use her words to tell DS how she feels. A lot of times I'll model how she should say things: I don't like it when you take my puppy and throw it/hide it, etc. She's definitely sending mixed message, giggling one moment, screeching the next. My concern is that DS is trying to push her buttons intentionally and purposely increases the button pushing until he finds her limit. He gets some sort of release from this. (He does this to DH and me, too. He lives to find our limit and pass it.)

Originally Posted by hipumpkins

I don't think kids can necessarily work it out on their own until they have life skills for that and an understanding of empathy.
We work everyday attaching, "use respectful language"
Consider intentions, IE: if someone was throwing a ball and you got hit with it, that person did not hit you with the ball. It's a tricky line.

We do work towards working it out but with little help from me to get the dialog going;
I ask the questions:
"Whats going on?"
Both kids get a chance to talk
I repeat back what each kid saying and ask the other, "Can you understand how (or why) she (he) feels that way?"
How would you feel if....
What do you want to do about it?

I do not always get a lovely little discussion with happy cheerful agreeable kids. Sometimes I get crazy answers, sometimes I get too much screaming and sometimes one kid refuses to budge but the precedent is set that this is the way to negotiate.

Some days I hear work even without me.

The fascinating thing is that DS is advanced among his peers when it comes to socializing. He is very good at working things out with his friends. He's often leading the group even when he is one of the younger kids. The social skills are there, but he chooses not to use them with his family, in fact, he covers his ears and refuses to listen when we talk about our feelings, or when he gets anywhere near feeling empathy for any of us. Sometimes when he feels like it, he does a wonderful job comforting and nurturing DD. Most of the time it is just more fun to upset her. I try to make helping comfort DD the natural consequence of upsetting her, but often he refuses to do it because he isn't interested.

He was in a huge taunting mood this weekend (after recieving his toy, of course!) to the extent of dangerous behavior: taking off seatbelt, threatening to open the car door while driving, etc. (We child-locked his door, and when he took off his seatbelt, pulled over and waited him out to put it back on.) Because we didn't blow up/yell/give him a reaction he was looking for, he continued to escalate all afternoon. We were trying to enjoy a family day with hiking (we saw two bears!) so it should have been a fun event, but it was quite wearing on all of us. The only thing that seemed to work was every distraction we could think of, otherwise he pushed everyone's buttons the entire trip home. (2 hours!)