Modesty At Religious Services

[BMG580]

Does your religion or particular church/spiritual group have a clear definition of appropriate clothing for both men and women attending services or functions? After reading Tradd's recent post about wedding attire this got me thinking about dressing for religious services in general.

I've found that in my own parish, which is considered to be a fairly conservative parish in my area, the majority of the attendees are dressed either immodestly or very casually for services. I have two trains of thought on this, which conflict. The first is that people should be welcomed no matter how they dress (which they are at this point) and that the point is to be worshipping God not focusing on what is being worn. But then my own personal approach is to dress for church very modestly, wearing at the least a dress with short sleeves that is also at least knee length. What I see are attendees in gym clothes, shorts so short that they look like underwear (popular with teen girls), hair that hasn't been combed and is pulled in a messy ponytail, men wearing rumpled, torn jeans and flip flops, etc.

I think the messy, casual clothing isn't as big a deal as the clothing (generally worn by women) that exposes more than it covers. But as I've grown more entrenched in my faith (Roman Catholicism) my views on clothing that I wear all the time, not just at church, have changed quite a bit. I am a much more modest dresser than I used to be. And my own personal spiritual journey is probably affecting my opinion of what is appropriate and what is not for everyone, though I am not sure that is fair.

I feel both judgmental and frustrated at the same time. I don't want to be a person who makes judgments about my fellow congregants based on what they are wearing because I have no idea what their personal relationship with God is, and they could be a much more devout and conscientious practitioner than I am. The clothing doesn't necessarily define the status of a person's spiritual life. But I find it disheartening that so many people will take far more time to get ready to go out and meet their friends than they will to go meet God.

I know this is a grey area in that the argument in the RC church about head covering for women, for instance, is that it is no longer culturally relevant so it no longer needs to be adhered to in church services. I suppose the argument could be made that this extends to all sorts of clothing that is no longer culturally relevant. We have celebrities who are lauded for showing up in clothing held together by safety pins and stick on adhesive fabric scantily covering small portions of breasts, for instance. A trip to the mall shows clearly that modest clothing is no longer culturally relevant in the USA. In fact, FINDING modest, stylish clothing is a pain the neck!

Anyone else have thoughts on this? What is this like at your own church/synagogue/house of worship?

[DahliaRW]

I do think about this. I believe that what one wears to worship is between them and God, so I try not to judge. That being said, it really does bother me when people dress rather immodestly. Usually it's women, but if it's low cut, tight, or really short you're probably distracting some others from focussing on God. And, IMO, dressing in a way to draw attention to yourself rather than God when you're going to a worship services expressly to focus on God is a problem.

For me, personally, I try to dress in a way that gets me in the right frame of mind for worship and in a way that I feel is modest. So I do choose to dress up a bit, it helps me set apart the day as "special" that way. I do dress modestly in general, but I'm extra cautious to not wear something distracting to worship.

We (as in my dh and I) also set standards we are teaching our boys. Like on Sundays they wear slacks and shirts with a collar (khakis and polos are fine) and we don't let them wear shorts. We feel that setting standards in our family will help guide their standards later in life in what they choose to wear to worship. We have told my 4yo, when he asks, that when he's old enough to decide for himself whether or not to accept Christ's teachings and become a Christian, he can decide what is appropriate attire. Until then, our family, our rules.

[Tradd]

My church (Orthodox) has an interesting mix. It's traditional for women to have their heads covered. If you ever see pictures of women in church in Russia, you'll see they have their heads covered. My parish has a mix of immigrants from Russia/Eastern Europe/Greece/Ethiopia. Some of the immigrant women cover their heads, as this is what they grew up with/were taught by their mothers and grandmothers, and others don't. I sometimes cover my head (I often wear a hat) and some other American converts/American-born Orthodox do, too.

We do get some folks in jeans for regular services, but as long as they're clean/no holes/no belly showing, no one says anything about it. I wear skirts more often than not, ankle length or just a bit shorter. Occasionally, you'll get a young girl who is clueless, but after seeing how the rest of the folks are dressed, she usually puts on something different, more modest, after several weeks.

The funniest thing to me is to see a young woman with a headcovering on, because that's how she was taught you go to church by a grandmother, but she's also wearing something tight and/or short. The two just don't go together!

[cappuccinosmom]

I mentioned this in the other thread--our current church doesn't have a dress code, although they provide those shawls so ladies don't pull a Britney Spears thing by accident. I never have figured out why the ladies in the choir don't just wear slacks or long skirts, since anything less than calf length will expose them when they sit down up on stage.

In our church we see all sorts, from the fancy fancy suits to raggedy t-shirts, punk, ethnic clothing, denim jumpers, alligator shoes died to match men's suits, etc. On the days our city has a big football game on, the whole church is outfitted in the team colors and jersey's.

I remember something funny too. Well, ironic. I was sitting in back with my noisy baby, when a woman came rushing up to the ushers urgently whispering she needed a shawl because a young girl who was visiting was in the front row, in a short skirt, with legs crossed---flashing the preacher. What was odd was that the woman who was complaining and concerned about modesty was in an absolutely skin-tight dress, basically painted on, with a radically low neckline that showed everything. And *she* also had a seat in front of the pastor.

[Bluegoat]

I think there are a few things going on here.

One is the idea, already mentioned, that we should welcome people as they come. After all, some people don't have options in what to wear, or easy access to a place to clean up. In other cases, people are just wearing what popular culture tells them is appropriate, and they don't have enough experience or maturity to think critically about that yet.

But it is true that people will put much more effort into getting dressed to go out to a bar or the movies than they do to church. And while I think people should feel comfortable in church, there is something to be said for putting in some effort when you go to God's house. Sure, God sees you in the buff every morning in the shower, but it's a matter of your own attitude. What things in life you put effort into says something about where your priorities really lie.

While it is true that what is modest varies significantly by culture, I don't think that is really what has been going on in a lot of cases with clothing standards in the West. When young women go out in skimpy clothes, there is really no question that those things were designed to be deliberatly sexy - that is to suggest a certian sexual availability or to deliberatly highlight a persons sexuality. Of course we are all sexual, but when and where is it appropriate to make that especially the focus? I don't think young women are being asked that question much.

On the other hand, in many cases, I'm not sure that the girls are really consciously aware of that or what it might mean. They see it in terms of being in style, or what everyone else wears, or just what they like because they see it in a million magazines and are conditioned that way.

But it doesn't take much to make people see that there is in fact more to it than that - it is close to the surface even if they aren't directly conscious of it. But we don't see that in popular culture. In a religious context, I guess it is up to the teaching of the churches.

I think in many cases they prefer, rather than directly address, say, short skirts, they prefer to talk about the appropriate use of the body, about the role of sexuality, and hop people will make the connection themselves. But perhaps there needs to be a bit more direct talking about the clothing choices people make. I have noticed that young women make some pretty horrendous choices - they don't seem to be quite at home in their skins yet.

It can be very easy to seem legalistic about this though, which turns people off, so I think it needs to be handled carefully.

[sweetsunshine85]

At my church they have the dress code posted outside every entrance door. And very few exceptions are ever made. Women must wear skirts that go below the knees with no slits. See thru fabrics or tight, stretchy materials are not allowed. The neckline on a "blouse" may be no more than two fingers width below the collarbone and all blouses must have real sleeves, no flutter sleeves. Men and boys are expected to wear long pants, no shorts and no tank tops. All the women and girls are to cover their heads when in the chapel. And if a woman shows up not in accordance with the posted dress code, the Sisters will pull them out of the chapel and offer them an appropriate skirt or a shawl. Thats my little Traditional Catholic chapel!

[vermontmomma]

i was i little surprised by the stern looks from a mother sitting in front of us i got recently when dd started crying so i discreetly covered us completely in the fabric tail of her sling and quietly nursed in the back row where we were sitting. no skin ever saw the light of day. her preteen daughter was dressed very inappropriately and had a "playboy" logo purse!

homesteading new momma : : green mountains : aspiring novelist and children's book author
***U.S. OUT OF V.T.***

[sweetsunshine85]

Thats always annoying. My chapel is pretty bfing friendly, but every now and then the religious will ask a mama to cover up or go upstairs.

[claddaghmom]

nak

im torn on this. i think modesty and respecting the body as a creation of god are important.


but then since having dd, im surprised what i care less about. sometimes i think its great if dd and i both have a top and bottom on, a pair of shoes and we make it on time for a weekday service. thankfully for sunday services dh is able to go w/ us so he can help and we are much more presentable.

i guess it doesn't help to justify the 20 somethings who show up wearing skin tight tops w/o bras (is that really ever nice to look at? ever???)



i remember at my childhood parish, the priest would take a few minutes at the beginning of summer to talk about church clothes. his favourite thing to do was to read the dress code for a local golf club and point out that a golf club required more respect than most people will dress for when going to church lol. probably had a few people grumbling at him but at least he never pointed fingers.

[sebarnes]

I think that the message in our church is to come dressed the best that you personally can to show respect and to respect the modesty standards of the church. For most people, that consists of dresses to the knee for young women and adult women that have sleeves and men in dress pants and shirts or suits (children are allowed much more leeway in regards to sleeveless dresses and shorter dresses and shorts, etc.). However, if what you can afford is jeans and a T-Shirt, than that is the best you can personally dress and it's okay. We also often have visitors who don't know what the usual dress is who come in whatever, sometimes street wear and sometimes short or sleeveless dresses for females, and nothing is ever said. Usually, as someone's time as a member lengthens they begin to conform more to the majority dress as they become more convicted of the spiritual reasons for modesty standards.

[griffin2004]

Originally Posted by Bluegoat

One is the idea, already mentioned, that we should welcome people as they come.

....

But it is true that people will put much more effort into getting dressed to go out to a bar or the movies than they do to church.

....

It can be very easy to seem legalistic about this though, which turns people off, so I think it needs to be handled carefully.

yes, yes, and yes

[cappuccinosmom]

I did just remember one rule--it's a summer rule that's given just before the church picnics. "Please do not come to church wearing your swim suit, even if it's covered with a t-shirt. Please do not wear bikinis as this is an all-age church picnic and not a Beach Beauty Contest".

[DahliaRW]

Bluegoat - well said. I definitely think that the dress of those who aren't "Christians" yet or who aren't regular members at my church is less of an issue to me then those who I know are Christians and attend regularly. It's one thing for random woman off of the street because she saw a sign and was curious to come to worship in a skimpy outfit versus someone who is a regular attendee and a Christian, IMO. And I totally agree about being legalistic. Which is why even though I have modesty standards for myself and my children, it's something I try to not bind on others or even bring up to them unless it's grossly innapropriate attire (i.e. genitals showing or something of the like).

[PatienceAndLove]

I have high standards for myself, DH and DD when it comes to going to Church. For others, it is what is appropriate for them.

The one and only time I extended my standards on to others was for my wedding rehearsal. I told DH to tell his friends and family that proper dress (ie: polos and khaki) was required. I didn't care if jean shorts and t-shirts were "appropriate" for service at their church, if they were going to be in my Church, there would be respect shown in the way they dressed.

[mamabadger]

Originally Posted by Bluegoat

I think there are a few things going on here.

One is the idea, already mentioned, that we should welcome people as they come. After all, some people don't have options in what to wear, or easy access to a place to clean up. In other cases, people are just wearing what popular culture tells them is appropriate, and they don't have enough experience or maturity to think critically about that yet.

But it is true that people will put much more effort into getting dressed to go out to a bar or the movies than they do to church. And while I think people should feel comfortable in church, there is something to be said for putting in some effort when you go to God's house.
<skip>
While it is true that what is modest varies significantly by culture, I don't think that is really what has been going on in a lot of cases with clothing standards in the West. When young women go out in skimpy clothes, there is really no question that those things were designed to be deliberatly sexy - that is to suggest a certian sexual availability or to deliberatly highlight a persons sexuality. Of course we are all sexual, but when and where is it appropriate to make that especially the focus? I don't think young women are being asked that question much.

On the other hand, in many cases, I'm not sure that the girls are really consciously aware of that or what it might mean. They see it in terms of being in style, or what everyone else wears, or just what they like because they see it in a million magazines and are conditioned that way.

Bluegoat makes some very good points.
My church takes modesty in services very seriously, and insists on people dressing appropriately. That is especially true for places like monasteries, which usually have to include detailed instructions on their literature and websites, to avoid people showing up in shorts and tank tops. I think most visitors do not really see the point. One problem is that it is women's clothing which is more likely to be immodest, just because fashion directs things that way; so instructions about dress may be perceived as being directed only at women, and that men are not required to be modest.

I see a lot of young women, even devout women, showing up at church in skintight clothing which shows a lot of skin. They have obviously taken a lot of trouble to dress up nicely for church. The thing is, they do not seem to see a distinction between "dressing up pretty" and "dressing modestly." The same clothing they would wear to go out dancing is put on to go to church, because it is their nicest or most expensive dress, and church is a special occasion. I do not think they are being deliberately immodest; their intentions are good. The concept of modesty has to be introduced and made real to them, before dress requirements will make any sense at all.

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by mamabadger

I see a lot of young women, even devout women, showing up at church in skintight clothing which shows a lot of skin. They have obviously taken a lot of trouble to dress up nicely for church. The thing is, they do not seem to see a distinction between "dressing up pretty" and "dressing modestly." The same clothing they would wear to go out dancing is put on to go to church, because it is their nicest or most expensive dress, and church is a special occasion. I do not think they are being deliberately immodest; their intentions are good. The concept of modesty has to be introduced and made real to them, before dress requirements will make any sense at all.

Yes, I think this is very much the case. I've noticed in in the workplace to some extent to - young women think dressing up means wearing what they might to a club, not professional attire. My FIL had a young woman come to work in one of those napkin shirts once - I guess they had one of the older ladies talk to her discretely, but she was a bit offended.

[lilyka]

more importantly than what you wear is that you are bringing your best. if you only have jeans wear your best pair. I am Orthodox and while is it custom to dress modestly and wear your best a lot of people don't get it. our parish does not turn any one away, and there are some people who really come looking bad. short shorts, tissue thin baby tees. guests of course are granted a lot of grace. we are on a college campus, across the street from an multi denominational seminary so we get a lot of classes through our doors. usually they come in jeans or shorts and a T-shirt. honestly it bothers me far more that they duck out early than what they are wearing. but that is another discussion all together.... and things just aren't handled publically so who knows, there may be discussion privately. it is considered a growth issue and everyone is just in their place along a path to growth. i know my dds godmother addressed it with her and took her shopping for some more modest dresses (she had outgrown all her dresses, i had no money and finding pretty, modest dresses for a pluse sized 12 year old is a challenege. on the other hand I am a single mother of three and fighting over clothes on a Sunday morning is not likely to get anyone to church.) So modest dress is expected. bringing your best is expected (although I think some parishes can get really judgmental about this because your best might not be someone else blah bloah blah), but at the same time no one gets turned away at our parish. we are pretty laid back. I feel comfortable wearing nice slacks and even occaisionally jeans depending on the service, at my parish but if I were visiting another parish I would be sure to have my best dress on and a head copver (few people cover at my parish).

[DahliaRW]

Originally Posted by mamabadger

I see a lot of young women, even devout women, showing up at church in skintight clothing which shows a lot of skin. They have obviously taken a lot of trouble to dress up nicely for church. The thing is, they do not seem to see a distinction between "dressing up pretty" and "dressing modestly." The same clothing they would wear to go out dancing is put on to go to church, because it is their nicest or most expensive dress, and church is a special occasion. I do not think they are being deliberately immodest; their intentions are good. The concept of modesty has to be introduced and made real to them, before dress requirements will make any sense at all.

I do think that it really does come a lot down to attitude. WHY is one wearing what they are? Really, that should effect how we dress in everyday life. And it does make sense that "dressing up" for one might include something immodest if they don't know better. It is a learned thing in all aspects of life. Personally, I wouldn't wear anything less modest in every day life then I'd wear in Church, more casual, but not less modest.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

The church dh belongs to has a actual paper up on the wall requesting that all christian's dress in an appropriate manner. Men must be in pants or like clothing and woman must wear a dress or skirt knee length or longer.

This note was put up after a woman came to a singing wearing pants and got up to sing.

[MysteryMama]

My church is very casual dress. Some people make more of an effort to dress nice (dress or nice slacks with blouse) but other wear jeans or whatever. I don't have a problem with it, and actually am glad it's this way because if I tried to dress up for church I'd be wearing the same thing every Sunday. I do feel uncomfortable going sometimes in the summer though because although I think casual is fine (at my church) all my shorts are very short and while thats fine for everyday, I don't feel comfortable at church in short shorts. I can (and do) wear pants, but it's so hot in the summer I get tired of wearing pants. Sometimes the whole issue bogs me down and I just don't go.

There was this one time the Easter before last that a woman was there in a VERY low cut dress and I found it extremely distracting. She had spectacular breasts but I didn't think she should be showing 5 inches of cleavage on Easter Sunday. I'm a heterosexual woman so I can only imagine how distracting it was for some of the men. This incident and how it made me feel is actually what led me to feel so uncomfortable wearing shorts in service.... I'd hate to induce those same feelings in anyone else and be a distraction from the Lord.