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Salicylate/Amine/Histamine Sensitive Tribe - Page 4

post #61 of 391
Agreed. Same with heirloom crops (which had to protect "themselves") vs. modern GMO crops that are altered. I tried to access full text to see whether they used ripe veggies or ones still in the fields to do the test, it would make a very big difference with something like tomatoes.

I've found, btw, that many things in the sals world are based on only a small amount of evidence that gets repeated over and over. I suspect many people end up with a far more limited diet than necessary because of it.
post #62 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Mama View Post
The Failsafe people say this is related to salicylates, I believe.
Feingold does too.

I know when I binged on sals my bladder pain and frequent need to pee: interstitial cystitis came back full force, it took several weeks to go away on Failsafe. Then I could eat normal amounts of salicylate containing food again. Just not a day of peppercorns, ginger, cinnamon, wintergreen, et al!
post #63 of 391
"green" fruits and vegetables are high in salicylates
This is a fascinating article about the high salicylate issue in many fruits and vegetables. Apparently, vine ripened product allows the salicylates to breakdown naturally and are replaced by anti-oxidants! The salicylates in the produce inhibit the uptake of many vitamins and minerals making the produce significantly less nutritious. The conclusion is that "Green picked fruit has almost no vitamins and minerals."

This is significant for those with children reacting to salicylates with hyperactivity and vitamin and mineral deficiencies. Buying vine-ripened, local produce will allow the benefits of the produce.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ib8yqjBY8osC&pg=PA146&dq=unripe+banana+sa licylates&sig=ACfU3U2Nbh0uta5r_haaBXKhFrgu8RK8wQ#v =onepage&q=&f=false


Pat
post #64 of 391
Thread Starter 
Great article, Pat!

I have a question for those with celiac disease, if there are any of you in this tribe.

We are beginning week 3 of a gluten free diet for DS1, who is dairy, egg white, tree nut, shellfish allergic and salicylate sensitive.

I am wondering if there may be some correlation between having a gut damaged by gluten and becoming more salicylate sensitive than otherwise.
post #65 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aletheia View Post
Great article, Pat!

I have a question for those with celiac disease, if there are any of you in this tribe.

We are beginning week 3 of a gluten free diet for DS1, who is dairy, egg white, tree nut, shellfish allergic and salicylate sensitive.

I am wondering if there may be some correlation between having a gut damaged by gluten and becoming more salicylate sensitive than otherwise.
No confirmed celiac here, but I do suspect dd has/had it since dh has a rash that looks EXACTLY like dermatitis herpteformis. Anyway, I would say yes, celiac or other food intolerances causing malabsorption, causing nutrient deficiencies, causing problems detoxing.
post #66 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aletheia View Post
I thought it might be helpful to have a thread for those of us struggling through understanding salicylate and/or -amine sensitivity specifically (and any other compound that is found in a wide variety of apparently healthy foods and body products.) I know mamafish is dealing with this, but who else? What tipped you off to the sensitivity? What symptoms do you get? What are your biggest challenges thus far in dealing with it? And what are some new foods or products that you love?

My first DS, almost 3, has multiple food allergies which were all figured out before he was a year old. However, I was constantly dogged by the idea that there was *something* else. My family (DH in particular) got very eye-rolley with me-- they would tease me that everything negative DS did "must be a food allergy." But I was sure there was something else.

The strange thing was that he would react to a food sometimes in a very minor way, but not react to that same food at some other time. (The chief culprits were citrus, strawberries, cinnamon, pineapple, and tomato products.) He would get irritated around the mouth to varying degrees. He would also develop a urine-based diaper rash very quickly even though we do Elimination Communication and he wouldn't have been sitting in a wet diaper. It was enough for him to have had one miss, get the pee on his skin, and BAM- 1/2 hour later, angry red rash. It's also true that he gets what I now recognize is urinary incontinence with a high sals load-- so we would have more misses during those times. I would try everything on the rash (including copious amounts of aloe and aloe-containing hydrocortosone) and nothing would help. And then, just as quickly as it came, it would be gone. Just like that. With no apparent correlation to what I put on it or didn't.

And the real confusing thing was that on occasion, for no apparent reason (i.e., he nor I had had any of the "big" allergens he can't tolerate-- dairy, egg white, nuts, or shellfish)-- he would suddenly just be covered (and I mean covered) in angry, angry eczema or hives.

I've also really noticed that he gets very needy and clingy... and that it comes in waves. This caused me to be really paranoid about sleep, figuring it was just that he would get really overtired. I spent a lot of his babyhood trying to get him to sleep. Now, I wonder if he wasn't tired, but just processing chemicals-- or, I guess, failing to process chemicals.

We're struggling through strawberry season right now. We have a huge strawberry patch in our backyard, and he is crazy about them. He had perhaps a bit too many over the last couple of days, and ended up with slight diaper rash (though he is potty trained), urinary incontinence (which gets more traumatic for him the older he gets) , slight eczema in his creases (though that could be due to the piece of cheese I ate on Tuesday), and the whinies. Oh, the whinies. It makes me crazy.

We are discovering that epsom salt baths are WONDERFUL. He comes out mellow and they seem to help in the long run, too.

But I am eager to build a little sals-amine support group here. Who are the rest of y'all, and how are you doing?
subbing because I know I belong here I just haven't had (or made) the time to learn about this stuff at all--I'm lost--but I keep thinking back to that my son has problems with this--because even though he's off gluten, dairy, eggs, soy, etc...he still gets random face reactions.welts/redmarks on his face to random things--like tomato--and then not another time (though tomato is almost always) but pears and vinegar?s (I've jsut recently noticed this--but it was in a suace so maybe an oil in there too?) I dunno--anyways--I want to read this thread--

did want to know--if my son is 3 yrs old--can I put him in a epsom salt bath? how much would I use? how would I do it? and would I just be giving him a clense of some sort? thanks
post #67 of 391
bumping - never read this but really seeing our issues as these.

we definitely have a problem with histamine but I have a plan of action for that.

Tonight I made nut butter fudge with coconut oil, honey and real vanilla. Immediate stuffy nose for me and a bit itchy. I am guessing it is a sals reaction from the honey and coconut.

I haven't had coconut in years because my youngests is highly reactive to it. Tonight the pendulum said yes to it. I am suspecting my lack of mama milk has reduced his levels of histamine and sals, so he is not as overloaded.

I really need to work on our zinc. I have always had a problem with it. I remember as a young child enjoying looking at the "clouds" on my fingers.

I noticed that recently when I am having a histamine reaction, I have urinary incompetence. sigh. I feel like I am 6 weeks pp - every little sneeze.

I became incredibly itchy last night after 1 tsp of ketchup. (I have been restricted because of my nursling).
post #68 of 391
Realizing that I already wrote a lot here.

Since posting here months ago, I learned I need A LOT of b12 to keep my histamine in semi-check. At least 5-7 sublinguals a day. I am not sure why I need so much, that is what I am trying to figure out now.
My mom tested for MTHFR gene and it came back negative. I was sure that it was our problem. Now I am wondering if it is extremely low zinc that I have a hard time maintaining. Mtn Mama mentioned that once she removed her fillings she has been able to reduce the amount of zinc she takes. Maybe it is my metals issues that makes it hard to keep up my zinc levels.
post #69 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mammo2Sammo View Post
Mtn Mama mentioned that once she removed her fillings she has been able to reduce the amount of zinc she takes. Maybe it is my metals issues that makes it hard to keep up my zinc levels.
That's definitely been the case for DS - we can "get by" with lots of supps and avoid big sals/histamine reactions - but only with getting his metals down are we getting to a place where he's not always borderline deficient in something (and therefore easily tipped over the edge).

Cadmium and copper mess bigtime with zinc, and antimony and arsenic mess with mag (which is necessary to process sals). Sorry, can't remember all your metals issues .
post #70 of 391
ours is mercury, arsenic (barely yellow), a bit of lead (almost yellow), aluminum (almost yellow). Our copper was suprisingly normal.
But, zinc is definitely an issue, and so is mag. I just can't seem to get enough into us. I gave my 3 year old too much before our long ride to NJ. Poor little guy. We had to stopped many times, in yucky places to have him poop. I am hoping the mag oil will help. I am also going to be focusing on cell salts when I have enough money to get a kit. FInally, I saw an enzyme, that is especially made for histamine it is related to the DAO enzyme. All of these things should help. I just need to gather them all together.

this is the enzyme I'm talking about
http://www.supersizehealth.com/natur...s_histame.html
post #71 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post


I see sals sensitivity as a sign that something is out of balance - so eating low sals manages the symptoms for a while, so that you can get things back in balance. For us, that meant balancing omegas, increasing zinc and mag, and supporting sulfation (we're still working on this, but it has improved a lot).
Thanks for that info about balancing omegas.

I also am finding I get very low in zinc.. I have been taking 50-100mg daily for a long time and still feel I could use some more. I get itchy skin when I am low in zinc and with taking zinc it will go away. Also my poop will get pale when low zinc levels. Have you figured out how much zinc you could use?? I hesitate to take too much.

Have you heard of the genetically linked disease called pyroluria which affects the body's balance of zinc and b6 ?? I could not get the test done for it in Canada but know of people having it done in the States.

Also I would be interested in what you are taking to support sulfation.

Thanks .. nanci
post #72 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post


Like I said, we really haven't increased our omega 3s a lot. But clearly my inflammation levels are way different now, so I'm assuming the same is true for DS. There was a thread a while back about how some Australian researchers treated sals sensitivity with massive doses of fish oil, and in the thread we talked about how whether they only needed the huge doses because they had to balance the huge amount of omega 6s in most peoples' diets? Well, I think it's true, that part of sals is an inflammation reaction, and if you can bring down your inflammation, you can really impact sals sensitivity. I'd love to see someone else try it to see if it works .
I ate alot of salmon oil when I first discovered and went off of sals. But my experiment would have been badly tainted as I was still on other groups of food , as well as the salmon oil itself.. ie the salmon oil is probably an amine reaction??

So is there a good source of omega 3 that could be more well tolerated for some of us??

nanci
post #73 of 391
Nanciswell - have you been tested for high copper? That is a WACK of zinc you're needing.... The other concern would be metals toxicity, which can sometimes also really increase the body's need for zinc.

What type of zinc are you taking?
post #74 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aletheia View Post
I was curious about this too, and found this online:
(http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T291481.html)


JaneS, is this what you guys did?
Sorry didn't respond til now... yes we do taste testing for Zinc and Mo and other minerals. Our holistic RD first turned me onto it and we got hooked.
post #75 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBMarie9 View Post
did want to know--if my son is 3 yrs old--can I put him in a epsom salt bath? how much would I use? how would I do it? and would I just be giving him a clense of some sort? thanks
Yes, I would start slow, just a couple tablespoons at first. It is not a cleanse, but are adding the nutrients magnesium and sulfur to the body. They are easily absorbed by the skin into the bloodstream and bypasses the gut, so you don't get loose stool. Using the skin, we can restock the body's stores much faster and in higher amounts than can be absorbed by mouth (gut).

Edit: and shoot for at least 20-30 minutes in bath.
post #76 of 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
Nanciswell - have you been tested for high copper? That is a WACK of zinc you're needing.... The other concern would be metals toxicity, which can sometimes also really increase the body's need for zinc.

What type of zinc are you taking?
I used to take zinc citrate as I recall. I just started with zinc picolinate.

I dont know about high copper. I have taken copper in the past and had no ill affects from taking it daily for awhile. I did do a hair test 20 years ago and will go check to see if that can show anything.

I do have high metal levels.. High lead, very high mercury, high arsenic. I am doing frequent dose chelation and have seen improvements. I have had a chronic staph infection in my salivary glands for 18 years which 6 rounds of antibiotics did not cure.. The one on my left cheek went away with what parrallels a frequent dose round..

I am just looking into a genetically based disease called pryoluria. Both zinc and b6 help alot with my mental state, itchy skin, energy. In pryoluria the body does not metabolise b6 and zinc properly and alot is excreted. Here in Canada we cannot get the test done so I may try and get it done in the States.

Do you know if the low levels are from metals whether it is safe to take higher doses than recommended. I believe the max recommended of zinc is 50 mg??

I find with taking higher doses of b6 .. I just started with 400mg daily .. my need for epsom salts/ sulfate is considerably less. I am hoping my sensitivities get less as well.

thanks.
nanci
post #77 of 391
Hi Nanci,

From what I read on the yahoo frequent chelation group (we are also chelating my son), very high doses of zinc are normal when you have high metals levels. My son just dropped from needing 25mg of zinc a day (for a 2.5 year old), to 5-10mg a day.

For B6, try taking the active form of B6 as well, P5P. The reason you likely find it decreases your need for Epsom salts is that arsenic blocks magnesium utilization (it can get into the blood, but not into the cells where it is needed). B6/P5P helps get counteract the arsenic and get magnesium into the cells. My son is high in antimony, which is very similar to arsenic - now that he has dumped a lot of his antimony, his B6 needs have come down considerably.

So high needs for both zinc and b6 are very typical for the metals toxicity you have - I'd assume that once you have made more progress on the metals, you'll see your needs for those nutrients normalize. In the meantime, I'd say take what your body needs!

What other symptoms are you dealing with? We may be able to help you brainstorm nutrients that would help you manage them while you chelate...
post #78 of 391
Hi Mamafish9

Thanks ever so much for this info.. IT really fits my profile.

I thought though that the reason I needed the epsom salts was because of the sulfate link??

I had a terrible, terrible crisis after my last chelation. Terribly exhausted, emotional with panic attacks, ADHD symptoms, sweats, and fevers, fatigued, itchy/tingling skin , sleeplessness, pale poop, nausea . I have gone onto an elimination diet and am adding one thing at a time { or trying to keep to that-ie it is testing my patience }.

I have been tested for high arsenic and lead , very high mercury and a bit of tin? , . Hearing your theories helps me to get out of my tunnel vision I am suffering from.. ie living alone and trying to figure this all out is overwhelming and doing the right thing sometimes looks so obvious in retrospect.. Thanks for your thoughts ..

The zinc helps the itchy skin. which looking back may just happen with finishing detox rounds as it is not a constant thing with me. Can you think of any other possibilities to explore??

. and I think taking more b12 helped the tingling?? . It definitely helped with a long time of muscle stiffness/ movement depresssion.. But again I am worried about taking too much.. I upped the number of injections and started with sublingual and immediately my long term , chronic stiff muscles got better.. Can I take too much ?? I am not going overboard and have lowered it to one injection of cobalamin every other day , plus around 6 mg of methyl sublingual a day.. Could I do any different??

I also took a dose of homeopathic arsenicum as that fit my symptoms of emotional problems and it helped. Then I was reading that treating detox with homeopathy is a bad idea. What do you think/??

How much molybdenum and selenium would you recommend??

So far I have reintroduced molybdenum, tapioca vitamin c, b1,b6, vit e, zinc, phosphatidyl choline, caprylic acid and NO Fenol for candida, coral calcium, vit d, carnitine and coq10 { I also have mitral valve prolapse } .folic acid. pregnenolone, and tribulus terrstris on my skin for testesterone.

What dose of folic acid would you recommend/?

I am testing the following in the next few weeks.. selenium, biotin, vitamin k, manganese, chromium, boron, strontium. I have yet to find a magnesium I can tolerate and have ordered different forms of it. I may try the magnesium citrate or glycinate tomorrow with the No Fenol. I do find the NO fenol stronger than the one I have been taking.. Phenol Assist.

I will check into copper levels when I see my doctor next. .

thanks again... nanci
post #79 of 391
Nanci, you're asking great questions, most of which I have no idea how to answer . I'm going to suggest you join the Yahoo frequent dose chelation group, if you haven't already, and post your list of questions there - I'm guessing you'll get a bunch of really helpful replies!

A couple of things I can maybe help with:

1) it is very common to have worse symptoms the day or two after you come off a chelation round. Upping the right supps during that day or two can help.

2) a lot of your stuff could be mag deficiency related - if you have high arsenic, you need to be taking LOTS of mag (my 2.5 yo took 300mg at one point, just to give you a rough idea). And upping things like b6 without upping mag can make you even more mag deficient.

3) My general perspective with most supps is that if they make you feel better, you're probably not taking too much. But very high doses of one thing can often make you deficient in something else. I'd try to take all the Bs, for example, not just one or two of them.

4) Beware the coral calcium. Coral supps are often VERY high in toxic metals. In addition, if you are deficient in magnesium, taking calcium will make things worse, not better.

Good luck working through this - I've heard mercury can really fog your brain and make it hard to think through all the steps to take...
post #80 of 391
Hmmm. I guess I'm joining here on behalf of my 2.5 year old. Until recently, when i started dosing her with high-dose molybdenum... her typical sals reaction was red ears, sometimes red cheeks, and hyperactivity.

Now the reaction has morphed, I think. No more red ears/cheeks, little hyperactivity, but an itchy painful butt rash (and sometimes arm rash) has taken its place.

It seems her main triggers are raspberries, dried herbs/spices, and commercial chocolate. Are fragrances a sals thing? She's practically IgE reactive to fragrances/detergents with hives and swelling from inadvertent contact.

She's starting to understand that epsom salt baths help her feel better, and I'm hopeful that (now that I'm running out of breastmilk so) she's eating more now, I'll be able to get a mag supplement into her orally.

I think tonight I'll retry B6 for her but she's been refusing it for awhile. T's other main symptom these days (and since Day 1) has been sleeping light and highly interrupted sleep. I'd love to make progress there...
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