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Feeling so sorry for men today -- Vent - Page 6

post #101 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
Uhhhh, why would a daughter need to be touched more during and after puberty???
They still need hugs and every other day type touches. Dads out of fear and hold them back can make dd feel unloved. Many times girls need this type of attention more at this age and less hurts.
post #102 of 170
Yeah, serial postings.

I view what the woman did as a poor way to say what lots of moms would say in a more discreet fashion. So your DH got embarassed around a group of strangers. It's not going to be the end of the world for him. Nothing happened. No security guard ran over to stop him from leaving. You left the park because of the rain. He may have been uncomfortable, but I can't imagine it's going to have a lifelong impact on your DH.

As I've said before, I'm a survivor of sexual abuse, so I can sympathize with the possibility that this woman was struggling with past issues in her life. I don't think it's right to condemn her or call her "weird" or "nuts" because she asked a question in an inappropriate way.

Imagine a mom came here and said this: "Today, I took my son to the water park. He was in the bathroom an unusually long time, and then this guy walked out. I don't know why, but I got a creepy feeling about this guy. Something just seemed off about him. I said to DS, 'did someone TOUCH you?' Then the guy seemed really embarrassed, and I realized I'd said it louder than I meant to and others were looking. I felt really badly about it, but I panicked. Now I feel awful."

Everyone would say "you could've worded it differently, but forgive yourself for the slip. I mean, after all I always say to trust my instinct. If someone seems creepy, I don't care if I hurt his feelings. My children's safety comes first."
post #103 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades View Post
How did the mom know the OP's DH was the only person in there?
It doesn't matter it was not the best way to ask "Are you ok?" or "What is taking so long."

"No one touched me." But I am sitting here trying to unlock my door, my zipper is stuck, I just cut my toe open, I just slipped and whacked my head....... Or I turning on all the sinks, flossing brown paper towels, throwing wet tolet paper onto the ceiling.

When I have yelled into bathrooms for my kids -- I am asking if they are ok or need help because other things are more likely to happen than molestation. Or a way to get them to move allong because they are playing.....which happens more often than molestation.
post #104 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsupialmom View Post
It doesn't matter it was not the best way to ask "Are you ok?"
I know, but several posters seem fixated on this being embarrassing to the OP's DH because he was the only person in there. We only know that because the OP said it; everyone else at the water park didn't know.
post #105 of 170
Quote:
By this age a child should know about private body parts, and know it's not okay for someone to molest them.
As someone who was molested at "that age," I can say that even though an eight year old knows about private parts and that people shouldn't molest them, they certainly do get molested.
post #106 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
Once a girl reaches puberty, many fathers feel uncomfortable with everyday touching like hugs because the idea that once you reach a certain age, touching is far to intimate an activity to occure between father and daughter.
But that doesn't explain why they would need to be touched more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsupialmom View Post
They still need hugs and every other day type touches. Dads out of fear and hold them back can make dd feel unloved. Many times girls need this type of attention more at this age and less hurts.
I wouldn't know. I was on my fourth father by that age and didn't want anything to do with him. He used to try to give me hugs and I just wanted him the hell away from me.
post #107 of 170
oh wow..
post #108 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexsam View Post
My dh was kind of terrified to touch her to help her (she asked him "Help me a little too?" because obviously he was helping my son and they were having a good time and she wanted to join in and needed a hand). He kind of pretended like it was not a big deal (a little help from a Daddy playing on the monkey bars *shouldn't* be) but he said he was terrified someone was going to "think something" or she was going to "say something" and he moved away from the monkey bars after out of the fear that a little girl was going to ask him for a boost on the jungle gym. What a world we live in! I'm not sure which is worse. That people that really do "touch" kids or that we all spend so much emotional energy every day in public spaces living in fear of them or being accused of it.
yeah. i totally relate.

DH took DD to the park a few weeks back, and a little boy took a spill off the play structure. his parents weren't paying attention, and he reached up to DH like "pick me up," and DH actually hesitated before touching him for fear of being accused of something.

so sad it's come to this, isn't it?

he did pick him up, though--and he took him over to his mama. i was really proud he helped the boy despite his (IMO well-founded) fear of someone "thinking" something
post #109 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
Your right. It is paranoia. And as long as you don't let paranoia own you, you don't have to worry about the ridiculousness of what you are paranoid about.
That's true. However, it doesn't follow that a man who is paranoid about this is necessarily simply using it as an excuse. I'm sure some men do that, but it doesn't follow that all men do that.

Quote:
And again, as I said, some crazy calling in saying you are molesting your children is out to get you period. They can call and tell CPS anything.
Yes, they can - and many of those things can be easily dismissed. But, if the suspicion is planted, the bathing issue can become confused very easily. "Daddy touched my vulva (assuming the child knows the word) and it really hurt" could be totally innocent...cleaning a scratch, wiping sand out, etc...but if suspicion already exists, because of a wacky CPS call, it's far more likely to be treated seriously.

And, the person doesn't necessarily have to be "out to get you". Some people really do get freaked about this stuff, to the extent that they're highly suspicious of any man touching a child's genitals for any reason. I've also known a couple of men who would change their own children, but wouldn't change someone else's, if, for example, their SO was babysitting or something. They're concerned about whether it's "appropriate".
post #110 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by readytobedone View Post
so sad it's come to this, isn't it?
What's really sad are the large numbers of children who grow up being molested and don't report it/aren't believed/find out there's little "justice" in the criminal justice system.

It's not that I don't get that it's unfortunate for stand-up men to feel they have to question their natural instinct to help. DH has mentioned the same thing about helping other children and having parents think he's doing something inappropriate. He's also said that while it bothers him, he cannot blame parents for doing what they believe is right in protecting their children.

The thing that bothers me the most about the distrust of strange men in public places isn't that those men get uncomfortable. It's that those men are very rarely the source of sexual abuse. In the vast majority of cases, abusers are someone who knows the child, but the education campaigns on that haven't worked well yet. I hope they will be better in the future, so I see this massive distrust as a stepping stone.

It's also important to note, of course, that today's dads are far more involved as a rule than were their predecessors. It isn't that moms today are more worried, it's that men a couple of generations ago rarely changed diapers and served active roles in their children's play. It's all part of a progression to a better familial social structure.
post #111 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades View Post
I know, but several posters seem fixated on this being embarrassing to the OP's DH because he was the only person in there. We only know that because the OP said it; everyone else at the water park didn't know.
Obviously, she meant the OP's dh. Her son was still in the bathroom. The OP's dh had just walked out. Why else would she suddenly freak out about someone touching her son, if she wasn't talking about the OP's dh? The only other possibility is that the OP's dh walked out, and she suddenly thought, "oh - that nice normal looking guy has left and the pedophile laying in wait is molesting my son"...in which case, she'd be far more likely to run in and see how her son was doing than to suddenly yell "did somebody TOUCH you?" in a loud voice.
post #112 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by churndash View Post
Oh I don't think that was the exact way that was suggested in that thread...I posted on that thread and didn't see anything about "imply that any male leaving the restroom might have touched you."
Yeah. I don't recall anything like that, either.

Quote:
Well, I have a son. He uses the men's room alone. So I guess I have "offered him up".
Yeah - ds1 started using public restrooms at about age 6 or 7. I guess I've "offered him up", too.

Quote:
This is not rocket science. The kid goes in. You wait. If he's taking longer than you think he should you say "why are you taking so long?" The kid answers.

If you are genuinely afraid, you barge on in there.
I agree completely. The woman in the OP absolutely accused the OP's dh, which is wildly inappropriate. The fact that she did so in a casual, public way, instead of a call to CPS, doesn't change that a guy was publicly accused of being a pervert, simply because he had to use the bathroom. Claiming she didn't really accuse him, because she was talking to her son, not to him, is completely dodging the issue. She was obviously accusing him.
post #113 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
But that doesn't explain why they would need to be touched more.



I wouldn't know. I was on my fourth father by that age and didn't want anything to do with him. He used to try to give me hugs and I just wanted him the hell away from me.
It is harder to deal with attention you are craving than something that is coming to you more willingly.

Also your situation is different --- he was your 4th not only/first/who you consider your real dad. It doesn't sound like he was a person that you felt as "dad". Even at that when a relationship is struggling a dad that keeps on trying, offering, et the girls are better off than when the dad parent pulls away.

Your situation doesn't equate to all girls. That is why I used many.

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jul/03/news/cl-47219
post #114 of 170
Brandi, I appreciate your posts, and especially agree with #102 and #110.
post #115 of 170
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades View Post
The original quote referenced someone being arrested and convicted for a changed diaper. That's pretty unbelievable, especially given the very low rate of conviction for sexual abusers.
The original quote also referenced false accusations -- which also can be very harmful to people. I noticed in another post you seemed to feel this should be no big deal to my husband, since he wasn't stopped from leaving the park or anything.

Of course, time will pass and he'll get over it. But I guess not being a man, and looking at it so much from the opposite point of view, you don't seem to be able to grasp what it's like to sense in a moment like that that your whole life is hanging in the balance, based on however a child decides to answer his mom -- a lady who's clearly having a stress-reaction to something, a reaction which may be affecting her child.

I suppose the wackiness would make most kids more likely to say, "No, nobody touched me" even if someone DID -- just to avoid all the additional drama that would ensue. But what if the child had just thought he'd try saying "Yes" just to see what might happen? Unlikely, I know. And it's not what happened, I know.

So maybe we don't even need to open that door and discuss it. But to a man who's being treated with suspicion -- he knows that his whole life could be hanging in the balance based on one child's honesty or lack-of-honesty. Maybe you think I'm over-dramatizing, because there's a "very low rate of conviction for sexual abusers."

But I can tell you that a mere accusation, and the investigation that would likely ensue, could be devastating to most families. What about a family like ours, with young children still in the home? Mightn't they feel our girls needed to be removed until they were "sure" dh was safe? Or else maybe they'd let our girls stay if dh moved out until they'd "cleared" him?

Either way, what a crappy thing for a family to have to deal with, just because some paranoid mom couldn't see fit to go with her child to the bathroom. I'll admit that I have my paranoid moments -- and I DO SOMETHING proactive to make sure I feel good about my children's safety in whatever situation we're in.

I seriously think most men would prefer a woman traipsing into the men's room with her son, over potentially finding themselves accused of a heinous crime. So what if convictions are rare -- some of us have lives to live and would rather not waste the time being placed under unnecessary scrutiny.
post #116 of 170
there are so many things wrong with this situation, it is hard to count.

But let's start...

1. the pervasive assumption that all homosexual men are pedophiles.

2. The assumption that all men are potential molesters or abusers, because they are unable to control their sexual urges.

3. that women are incapable of these actions or doing bad things to children.

4. where there is smoke, there is fire. An accusation of child molestation or abuse is nearly impossible to overcome, even when there is no evidence to support it. Lives have been ruined due to the damage done to reputations and the community suspicion of an individual. Of course men are paranoid about the accusation - they have every right to be because it seems like it turns into a witch hunt with no way to prove innocence.

I too am uncomfortable with my son going to public bathrooms in parks, more for the worry that he may observe something inappropriate mixed in with concern about dodgy characters who can be found in public bathrooms. But then he is 5 1/2 yrs old. Before he will be allowed to use a men's room by himself, we will have a long talk about what to be aware of in bathrooms.

Here is a scenario - my son sometimes has a hard time undoing or doing his trousers. He sometimes will ask whomever is standing near him for help. But no man unknown to the child in his right mind would touch the kid (and I wouldn't want them to) - but a woman may feel free to help a child without being worried of her innocent help turning into an accusation of abuse.

And we wonder why many men are not comfortable around children, acting as caregivers, or being stay at home dads?
post #117 of 170
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades View Post
Imagine a mom came here and said this: "Today, I took my son to the water park. He was in the bathroom an unusually long time, and then this guy walked out. I don't know why, but I got a creepy feeling about this guy. Something just seemed off about him. I said to DS, 'did someone TOUCH you?' Then the guy seemed really embarrassed, and I realized I'd said it louder than I meant to and others were looking. I felt really badly about it, but I panicked. Now I feel awful."

Everyone would say "you could've worded it differently, but forgive yourself for the slip. I mean, after all I always say to trust my instinct. If someone seems creepy, I don't care if I hurt his feelings. My children's safety comes first."
You know, I think people were empathizing with me and my dh's dilemma, because I was the one posting. If she posts here, I imagine she'll get plenty of empathy, too.
post #118 of 170
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by readytobedone View Post
yeah. i totally relate.

DH took DD to the park a few weeks back, and a little boy took a spill off the play structure. his parents weren't paying attention, and he reached up to DH like "pick me up," and DH actually hesitated before touching him for fear of being accused of something.

so sad it's come to this, isn't it?

he did pick him up, though--and he took him over to his mama. i was really proud he helped the boy despite his (IMO well-founded) fear of someone "thinking" something
Yes, it is sad when people are afraid to help a child! I'm glad your dh did anyway!

And for people who are thinking "No harm done" when someone casts suspicion on a man unfairly -- I think it can cause some loss of the helpful-impulse in many men. I hope it won't affect my dh that way.
post #119 of 170
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phathui5 View Post
As someone who was molested at "that age," I can say that even though an eight year old knows about private parts and that people shouldn't molest them, they certainly do get molested.
What I meant was that by the age when I'd trust my child in a public restroom on her own, I would also trust her not to be saying, "Yeah, I'm okay" if someone was molesting her. By this age we've had numerous discussions about inappropriate touching, and she knows to yell loudly if someone is making her uncomfortable.

Of course, having only girls I've had no problem accompanying them. And if I had boys, I'd have no problem going in the men's room if I thought they were in danger.

Again, I'm just feeling more and more strongly that if any mom is having strong feelings that her child is not safe, she just needs to get her butt in there and keep him safe -- not put men at risk of being falsely-accused.

It would be interesting to do a poll of men's opinions. I have a feeling most of them would prefer the mom barging in to be with her son, over the risk of them getting falsely-accused of child molestation.
post #120 of 170
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by siobhang View Post
there are so many things wrong with this situation, it is hard to count.

But let's start...

1. the pervasive assumption that all homosexual men are pedophiles.

2. The assumption that all men are potential molesters or abusers, because they are unable to control their sexual urges.

3. that women are incapable of these actions or doing bad things to children.

4. where there is smoke, there is fire. An accusation of child molestation or abuse is nearly impossible to overcome, even when there is no evidence to support it. Lives have been ruined due to the damage done to reputations and the community suspicion of an individual. Of course men are paranoid about the accusation - they have every right to be because it seems like it turns into a witch hunt with no way to prove innocence.

I too am uncomfortable with my son going to public bathrooms in parks, more for the worry that he may observe something inappropriate mixed in with concern about dodgy characters who can be found in public bathrooms. But then he is 5 1/2 yrs old. Before he will be allowed to use a men's room by himself, we will have a long talk about what to be aware of in bathrooms.

Here is a scenario - my son sometimes has a hard time undoing or doing his trousers. He sometimes will ask whomever is standing near him for help. But no man unknown to the child in his right mind would touch the kid (and I wouldn't want them to) - but a woman may feel free to help a child without being worried of her innocent help turning into an accusation of abuse.

And we wonder why many men are not comfortable around children, acting as caregivers, or being stay at home dads?
Bravo! You've said it all so much better than I ever could.
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