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Feeling so sorry for men today -- Vent - Page 7

post #121 of 170
Your poor dh. Really crass woman. She is probably freaking out her son if this is her usual parenting style.
post #122 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades View Post
For sexual abuse survivors, all types of scenarios can be triggers, which was Claddagh Mom's point. As a sexual abuse survivor myself, I know there are situations that creep me out because they remind me of what happened to me. If I don't control the feelings when they first arise, I become panicky and probably seem a bit paranoid to anyone watching.

PTSD is very real and can have long-lasting effects. I can see this mom's fear rising to the level that she blurted out what she was thinking because she kept asking her son if he was okay. There are times that I absolutely have to leave a situation before I really freak out. This mom couldn't leave while her son was in the bathroom, and she may have just gotten overwhelmed.
I am very aware of that.

I still refuse to live in fear.
post #123 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades View Post
I know, but several posters seem fixated on this being embarrassing to the OP's DH because he was the only person in there. We only know that because the OP said it; everyone else at the water park didn't know.
He was the only person stepping out of the bathroom at the time the mother made her comment. Making it obvious to him and anyone with in hearing distance that she viewed him as a pedophile.
post #124 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
But that doesn't explain why they would need to be touched more.
Yes it does...

Daughter starts puberty, dad gets worried about what society thinks when he hugs his daughter and thus stops initiating or accepting physical contact... She not longer gets the attention she once had from him.
post #125 of 170
We may be able to understand and empathize with someone's fear (if this hypothetically abused mom was acting from her own experiences) but we do not have to accept it as reality or allow it to interfere with how everyone else lives their lives.

I understand fear like that- that comes from your own worst dark places- I really do. But it still does not give anyone the right to turn those fears into public, serious and baseless accusations against total strangers going about their regular business.
post #126 of 170
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
Yes it does...

Daughter starts puberty, dad gets worried about what society thinks when he hugs his daughter and thus stops initiating or accepting physical contact... She not longer gets the attention she once had from him.
Makes perfect sense to me! And I think many young girls at puberty ARE feeling very intense emotions, and noticing that Dad seems to be pulling back, may make them feel like they're not as cute or loveable as they were when they were little.

Girls at puberty often have a body-image crisis ... they might have acne, their bodies might be changing "too fast" or "not fast enough." This is a time when they really need to feel strong unconditional love from BOTH parents -- and not a time when either parent should be pulling back.
post #127 of 170
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexsam View Post
I understand fear like that- that comes from your own worst dark places- I really do. But it still does not give anyone the right to turn those fears into public, serious and baseless accusations against total strangers going about their regular business.
Yes to this!
post #128 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by siobhang View Post
there are so many things wrong with this situation, it is hard to count.

But let's start...

1. the pervasive assumption that all homosexual men are pedophiles.

2. The assumption that all men are potential molesters or abusers, because they are unable to control their sexual urges.

3. that women are incapable of these actions or doing bad things to children.

4. where there is smoke, there is fire. An accusation of child molestation or abuse is nearly impossible to overcome, even when there is no evidence to support it. Lives have been ruined due to the damage done to reputations and the community suspicion of an individual. Of course men are paranoid about the accusation - they have every right to be because it seems like it turns into a witch hunt with no way to prove innocence.

I too am uncomfortable with my son going to public bathrooms in parks, more for the worry that he may observe something inappropriate mixed in with concern about dodgy characters who can be found in public bathrooms. But then he is 5 1/2 yrs old. Before he will be allowed to use a men's room by himself, we will have a long talk about what to be aware of in bathrooms.

Here is a scenario - my son sometimes has a hard time undoing or doing his trousers. He sometimes will ask whomever is standing near him for help. But no man unknown to the child in his right mind would touch the kid (and I wouldn't want them to) - but a woman may feel free to help a child without being worried of her innocent help turning into an accusation of abuse.

And we wonder why many men are not comfortable around children, acting as caregivers, or being stay at home dads?
Bravo!! Well said.
post #129 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnymw View Post
I think it's sad that as a whole society we've gotten to this point. BIL won't even bathe his daughters because he's afraid of the stigma that would come along with it.
DP rarely bathes our girls. They are 2 and 5. He is more likely to bathe our 2 year old than to help his 5 year old at all. There is an ugly custody thing going on and there have been accusations of molestion (not on my DP's part) but my 5 year old DSD doesn't want him to see her naked, NO MEN or BOYS in fact. I feel bad for DP and DSD. Nudity in our home is such a stressful thing. It's sick.The other day DSD saw me naked and I was actually worried she would go home and casually mention something or her mom would question her. Even I hate to help her into and out of the tub or wash her hair.
post #130 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexsam View Post
We may be able to understand and empathize with someone's fear (if this hypothetically abused mom was acting from her own experiences) but we do not have to accept it as reality or allow it to interfere with how everyone else lives their lives.

I understand fear like that- that comes from your own worst dark places- I really do. But it still does not give anyone the right to turn those fears into public, serious and baseless accusations against total strangers going about their regular business.
I was molested for years by a female peer. I am so paranoid with my kids, but I realize that is mostly my issue. I would never put that on someone else. I just never let my DD out of my sight. ITA with you mama.
post #131 of 170
People do get really warped about these things.

There was a male daycare worker at the care facility at my husband's office. One of the women there, who's dd was in care there, was really upset that he might -!change the girls diapers!-

I just don't get it - the number of men interested in that kind of thing is very small, and a daycare facility where the diaper changing area is public hardly seems the ideal place for inappropriate activity.
post #132 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexsam View Post
Huh? Are you joking? I didn't read the thread, but I cannot believe the "right thing to do" to "make women more comfortable" is to accuse men who use the men's room to be molesters...? This makes no sense. Or do you mean to send an 8 yr old into the mens room?

And, I guess it IS hard never to offend anyone. But heck- accusing someone of being a child molester is pretty easy to "verbally avoid" .
No, I mean it was suggested in that thread that boys should be sent into the men's room alone to make women more comfortable.
post #133 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturalMindedMomma View Post
DP rarely bathes our girls. They are 2 and 5. He is more likely to bathe our 2 year old than to help his 5 year old at all. There is an ugly custody thing going on and there have been accusations of molestion (not on my DP's part) but my 5 year old DSD doesn't want him to see her naked, NO MEN or BOYS in fact. I feel bad for DP and DSD. Nudity in our home is such a stressful thing. It's sick.The other day DSD saw me naked and I was actually worried she would go home and casually mention something or her mom would question her. Even I hate to help her into and out of the tub or wash her hair.
A dear friend of mine has a step granddaughter who has falsely accused people of inappropriate things in the past. When she would visit my friend would be the only one to help bathe her but the girl's grandfather would also casually be in the room so no one was alone with her. The girl had a LOT of problems. They did this to protect themselves from accusations. She was young enough to need help with her hair and stuff.
post #134 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
Of course, time will pass and he'll get over it. But I guess not being a man, and looking at it so much from the opposite point of view, you don't seem to be able to grasp what it's like to sense in a moment like that that your whole life is hanging in the balance, based on however a child decides to answer his mom -- a lady who's clearly having a stress-reaction to something, a reaction which may be affecting her child.
Did he really sense his life was hanging in the balance? Because strangers stared at him? Did you and he consider that the strangers were staring at the mom? Perhaps they were wondering the same thing about why the woman was yelling that into the bathroom. If your husband is so sensitive that he felt his life hanging in the balance in that instant, then I'd guess he gets offended or upset pretty often.

There's really no difference in "are you okay" and "did someone touch you" other than directness. Yes, "are you okay" can refer to any problem the child was having, but he easily could've said "yes, this guy is trying to touch my penis." Yeah, that could've happened as a result of the question "are you okay," but it didn't. The actual rate of false accusations of sexual abuse is extremely low, and I think urban legends are influencing the fear about false accusations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
But I can tell you that a mere accusation, and the investigation that would likely ensue, could be devastating to most families. What about a family like ours, with young children still in the home? Mightn't they feel our girls needed to be removed until they were "sure" dh was safe? Or else maybe they'd let our girls stay if dh moved out until they'd "cleared" him?
Yes, an accusation might result in that...if there were an accusation. You seem really focused on what could have happened under different circumstances, which is the same thing this mom was doing. She was focused on the "what ifs" as well and ignored the reality (her son saying he was okay).

Your husband *wasn't* accused. The mom asked her son a question. Yes, it was an inappropriate way to word it in public. I've said that. But you seem really to be exaggerating what happened to make it seemed the woman actually accused your husband directly of molesting her son. She didn't. She asked a question. Her son answered. Your husband kept walking.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
I seriously think most men would prefer a woman traipsing into the men's room with her son, over potentially finding themselves accused of a heinous crime. So what if convictions are rare -- some of us have lives to live and would rather not waste the time being placed under unnecessary scrutiny.
If, God forbid, one of your girls ever says someone molested her, you won't think about the lives the molesters have to live. Since you're fixated on the hypotheticals of the situation, think about that for a moment.
post #135 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
I am very aware of that.

I still refuse to live in fear.
And that's great for you. That doesn't mean that other situations aren't psychological triggers for other people. If you've been molested over a long period of time, it does happen that you get overwhelmed with certain situations. I've been there myself - when certain scenarios, voices, smells reminded me of my abuse. I leave quickly, but this woman couldn't. In that situation, I can see someone panicking and saying something in a poorly-worded way.

I'm not saying that's what happened here. I'm just saying that it's possible this woman had another reason for asking the question, in which case what she's suffered is far worse than the OP's husband facing a few seconds of embarrassment. It's also possible she realized later that what she said was inappropriate and wished she hadn't said it. It's entirely possible she's a nutjob who's intent on filing as many sexual abuse claims as she can.

We just don't know, and I don't think this example serves to shine a light on the plight of men taking care of their children.
post #136 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inci View Post
Brandi, I appreciate your posts, and especially agree with #102 and #110.
Thanks. I am going to step out of this conversation because it's stressing me out too much. I'm so sad that parents here of all places are so misunderstanding of sexual abuse and the consequences of it, even for adults.
post #137 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
Yes it does...

Daughter starts puberty, dad gets worried about what society thinks when he hugs his daughter and thus stops initiating or accepting physical contact... She not longer gets the attention she once had from him.
I don't agree with this.. but for the sake of argument lets say you are right. It doesn't mean she needs touched MORE than when she was an infant or toddler. It just means she doesn't need touched less. And I have never see this happen anyway. Dads still hug their teenage daughters and society doesn't get uppity about it. . I would hate to live where you do.
post #138 of 170
Again you are being too general, Tina. *Some* fathers hug their daughters and *sometimes* society has no issue with it. Other times a teenage daughter being lovingly caressed by her father raises inappropriate questions.

As for whether or not a teen girl "needs" to be touched more or less than when she was an infant I think it all depends on the girl and her circumstances.

Quote:
Thanks. I am going to step out of this conversation because it's stressing me out too much. I'm so sad that parents here of all places are so misunderstanding of sexual abuse and the consequences of it, even for adults.
I'm not too sure where you are getting this, Brandi. As I said in my OP on this thread I was sexually abused and struggle not to automatically lump all men in with that and be overly suspicious of them. The whole point is that when we live in fear like that our lives are being robbed from us and when we carry that over to our children we are robbing something from them. Why not seek out and foster normalcy? Living in fear just isn't living at all so what is the point?
post #139 of 170
BTW~ Musician Dad thanks for your posts.
post #140 of 170
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades View Post
Did he really sense his life was hanging in the balance? Because strangers stared at him?
Yes, he sensed that his wellbeing basically hinged on that child's answer.

Quote:
Did you and he consider that the strangers were staring at the mom? Perhaps they were wondering the same thing about why the woman was yelling that into the bathroom.
Yes, he considered that.

Quote:
If your husband is so sensitive that he felt his life hanging in the balance in that instant, then I'd guess he gets offended or upset pretty often.
Do you really feel my husband was being oversensitive because he was upset by this?

Quote:
Your husband *wasn't* accused. The mom asked her son a question. Yes, it was an inappropriate way to word it in public. I've said that. But you seem really to be exaggerating what happened to make it seemed the woman actually accused your husband directly of molesting her son. She didn't. She asked a question. Her son answered. Your husband kept walking.
I had a feeling that someone would criticise me for even opening that door. But the possibility of a false accusation was what made my husband feel his life and wellbeing was hanging in the balance.

And enough posters here have shared their own husband's fears of getting accused, that I honestly don't think this is just a case of my dh being "oversensitive."

The poster just before you shared about a child who had a real problem with making false accusations, so much so that the grandparents had to devise a plan to protect themselves from false accusations while caring for her.

I don't imagine this sort of problem is frequent -- but I can't help thinking that parents who behave like this mother, could actually be encouraging some children to make false accusations.

Quote:
If, God forbid, one of your girls ever says someone molested her, you won't think about the lives the molesters have to live. Since you're fixated on the hypotheticals of the situation, think about that for a moment.
You know, I don't spend a whole lot of time thinking about this scenario -- because I just find it pretty easy to take precautions to ensure my children's safety.

As to the fear that was triggered in my dh, I don't know of any additional precautions he could take. Just wear Depends? Sometimes men have to use the restroom when they are out, just as everyone else does. If he'd tried to relieve himself outdoors and been caught, he'd probably have found himself charged with indecent exposure, so that doesn't sound like the answer.

Again, it's just a lot easier to keep our own kids safe, than it is for others to defend their good name if we choose not to accompany our children into situations that we perceive as dangerous, and then get worried that because we weren't in that bathroom to protect them, they might have been "touched" by the only other person who was in there.
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