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Feeling so sorry for men today -- Vent - Page 4

post #61 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
I think we, as a society, spend to much time worrying about what ifs that have no basis in reality.
I actually agree with you, but that doesn't change the fact that the OP's dh was basically publicly accused of being a pedophile, for the heinous crime of using the men's room.
post #62 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I actually agree with you, but that doesn't change the fact that the OP's dh was basically publicly accused of being a pedophile, for the heinous crime of using the men's room.
Your right. But my comment was aimed at the side topic of men not changing their children's diapers because they are afraid of being arrested for child molestation.
post #63 of 170
I know. I'm just making the point that it's not always an excuse, and that there is reason for the level of paranoia about this that some men have. I don't find the scenario MusicianDad cited to be as far out as you do. It's no more far out than someone screaming about "did someone touch you", just because a man walked out of a bathroom.
post #64 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
I think we, as a society, spend to much time worrying about what ifs that have no basis in reality.
A what if for you can very well be reality for someone else. People have been falsely accused and some of them have been falsely convicted because of the stigma that men face when it comes to sexual abuse.
post #65 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I know. I'm just making the point that it's not always an excuse, and that there is reason for the level of paranoia about this that some men have. I don't find the scenario MusicianDad cited to be as far out as you do. It's no more far out than someone screaming about "did someone touch you", just because a man walked out of a bathroom.
I do think it is far out. People are not going to call the police and claim someone is sexually abusing their children because dad changed a diaper. Someone who is going to do something like that is going to make up wild accusations about anything. They could call and tell them you beat your children. It doesn't matter, they are out to get you no matter what.. They are unstable and will make anything up. But no one in their right mind is going to sincerely believe that dad changing a diaper is sexual abuse and call the police. I just don't believe we as a society are that ignorant.. yet.
post #66 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
A what if for you can very well be reality for someone else. People have been falsely accused and some of them have been falsely convicted because of the stigma that men face when it comes to sexual abuse.
And I am sure there was a lot more to it than dad changing his daughters diaper or giving her a bath.
post #67 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
I do think it is far out. People are not going to call the police and claim someone is sexually abusing their children because dad changed a diaper. Someone who is going to do something like that is going to make up wild accusations about anything. They could call and tell them you beat your children. It doesn't matter, they are out to get you no matter what.. They are unstable and will make anything up. But no one in their right mind is going to sincerely believe that dad changing a diaper is sexual abuse and call the police. I just don't believe we as a society are that ignorant.. yet.
No one in their right mind would, no...but no one in their right mind would do what the woman in the OP did, either. People on this thread have mentioned that they've had people concerned about the "appropriateness" of their partner changing/bathing their little ones. This mindset is out there. If someone who thinks this way is going to call CPS, they're not going to call and say, "so-and-so is changing his dd's diaper". They're going to call and say, "this little girl/boy told me that daddy touches her privates when nobody else is in the room" and go from there.

Is our society, as a whole, this nuts? No - not yet (and I hope the trend turns). That doesn't mean there aren't people out there who are that nuts. They're not a majority, by any means...but they are out there, and it's not just one or two people who are totally crazy. It's a fairly widespread form of paranoia.
post #68 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
And I am sure there was a lot more to it than dad changing his daughters diaper or giving her a bath.
As a father I can honestly tell you that it doesn't take "more the changing a diaper or giving a bath" to freak people out. All it takes is a dad and a child in a situation that the adult mind can construe as overly invasive.

And you can't forget that any person who gets involved in the situation after someone makes a complaint are only human and destined to let their own biases affect how they view something.

There's a reason that DH and I have had many people, both aquantences and strangers, telling us that DD needs a female to help her deal with things that are private. Because a dad helping his daughter buy her first bra is apperently creepy.
post #69 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
It's a fairly widespread form of paranoia.
Your right. It is paranoia. And as long as you don't let paranoia own you, you don't have to worry about the ridiculousness of what you are paranoid about.

And again, as I said, some crazy calling in saying you are molesting your children is out to get you period. They can call and tell CPS anything.
post #70 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
There's a reason that DH and I have had many people, both aquantences and strangers, telling us that DD needs a female to help her deal with things that are private. Because a dad helping his daughter buy her first bra is apperently creepy.
Frankly in your case, I think it is more prejudice. No one would say a word about a single father for buying his dd her first bra. Unless of course the DD herself was uncomfortable with it, which I can also understand. Then someone might suggest an aunt or some other female figure.

However we are talking about much smaller children. Infants and children under 5.
post #71 of 170
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
And I am sure there was a lot more to it than dad changing his daughters diaper or giving her a bath.
Do you notice how quick you are to assume that if someone is falsely-accused or convicted, there must be "more to it?" I've heard similar comments about families that are dealing with CPS intervention for a variety of reasons -- there's always this idea that the authorities don't mess with people without an extremely good reason, which reflects rather badly on the few who are dealing with this.
post #72 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
Do you notice how quick you are to assume that if someone is falsely-accused or convicted, there must be "more to it?" I've heard similar comments about families that are dealing with CPS intervention for a variety of reasons -- there's always this idea that the authorities don't mess with people without an extremely good reason, which reflects rather badly on the few who are dealing with this.
No, I believe CPS gets involved for a variety of stupid reasons. Not vaxing, home schooling, grudges, ect. What I said was.. there has to be more than Dad changing daughter's diaper for CPS to be involved. I cannot and will not believe our society is that ignorant.. yet.
post #73 of 170


It's really sad how quickly these threads turn into bickering. I don't see why it's so hard to understand that a SAS has personal fears. Is it really that hard to understand they might feel scared about certain situations, experience PTSD symptons, or even just have a heightened awareness? I find it offensive the way their personal hurts are tossed about as irrational, overprotective, nutty, weird etc. That is just as judgmental as the topic being discussed against men.

The woman in the story was wrong b/c she was socially inappropriate by speaking a poorly phrased, accusatory sentence aloud. That is no reason to dig into people who have fears about certain situations or scenarios. She could have been very scared about the situation and still taken the time speak to the boy quietly.

I have no trouble believing in my husband and trusting him. But I'll be darned if I'm going to deaden my senses and awareness of the world we live in. How about if everyone who keeps saying to change the world offers her child up first.




BTW I believe the average age for abduction and molestation for boys is 11. If the woman in the OP's story was not reacting emotionally, she would have made a better choice by securing the restroom through other methods...such as asking the boy to wait until the restroom was empty. Or creating keywords that weren't offensive.
post #74 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
No, I believe CPS gets involved for a variety of stupid reasons. Not vaxing, home schooling, grudges, ect. What I said was.. there has to be more than Dad changing daughter's diaper for CPS to be involved. I cannot and will not believe our society is that ignorant.. yet.
Do you mean for it to become an active case? Or for it to become reportable?

If it is reported and they cannot dismiss it, they have to investigate it and be satisfied before closing it.

So, yeah, I personally am enraged at the thought that someone could make an anonymous phone call, toss in some remarks about 'daddy' 'bathing' and 'sex' and then CPS gets to 'investigate' us.
post #75 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multimomma View Post
:

Camra, that's exactly what I was going to post. Churn, as well. I also recently read a post about how eight years old was too old to go in the women's bathroom...with several posts about how uncomfortable mdc moms were with an older boy in the women's bathroom.

Sorry, but that woman didn't know your husband. She made a parenting choice, didn't know he was in there until he walked out, and was reacting the best she knew how. Your husband decided to feel embarrassed, we own our feelings, and as Eleanor Roosevelt said, "no one can make you feel inferior without your consent".
However when someone screams "Is someone touching you?" and then the DH comes out of the bathroom with everyone around staring at him that gives everyone who couldn't hear said sons reply of NO the impression that something may have been going on. Its not just feeling embarrassed its getting labeled. A label that can have serious repercussions.

I think the mother handled the situation poorly. My first question when my son is taking too long in the bathroom (usually at home or at a friends house, because otherwise I'm with him) is "What are you doing?" Kids get sidetracked even at 8 years old. If after that I don't get a reply I ask "Are you ok?" and then I go find him. I wouldn't care if it was a men's bathroom or not.
post #76 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by claddaghmom View Post
How about if everyone who keeps saying to change the world offers her child up first.

I will gladly offer my child up first so her father can change her diaper and or give her a bath at appropriate ages.

And I will never believe that a father who refuses to help in the care of his child because he "might be accused of molesting her" is throwing out anything other than an excuse to help with said care.
post #77 of 170
While I don't think the woman handled that incident particularly well, the last long thread we had here showed that this is the exact way moms of boys should handle taking their boys to the bathroom. Maybe she was a mom here and read that and despite her own fears, she was trying to make the women of the world more comfortable.

Its very hard to make sure no one is ever offended.
post #78 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by claddaghmom View Post


It's really sad how quickly these threads turn into bickering. I don't see why it's so hard to understand that a SAS has personal fears. Is it really that hard to understand they might feel scared about certain situations, experience PTSD symptons, or even just have a heightened awareness? I find it offensive the way their personal hurts are tossed about as irrational, overprotective, nutty, weird etc. That is just as judgmental as the topic being discussed against men.

The woman in the story was wrong b/c she was socially inappropriate by speaking a poorly phrased, accusatory sentence aloud. That is no reason to dig into people who have fears about certain situations or scenarios. She could have been very scared about the situation and still taken the time speak to the boy quietly.

I have no trouble believing in my husband and trusting him. But I'll be darned if I'm going to deaden my senses and awareness of the world we live in. How about if everyone who keeps saying to change the world offers her child up first.




BTW I believe the average age for abduction and molestation for boys is 11. If the woman in the OP's story was not reacting emotionally, she would have made a better choice by securing the restroom through other methods...such as asking the boy to wait until the restroom was empty. Or creating keywords that weren't offensive.
I am far from naive about what can happen when children are left alone with strangers, both male and female.

I am not going to let those people affect me to such an extent that I live my life assuming every man I meet is a pedofile waiting to strike.
post #79 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
I will gladly offer my child up first so her father can change her diaper and or give her a bath at appropriate ages.

And I will never believe that a father who refuses to help in the care of his child because he "might be accused of molesting her" is throwing out anything other than an excuse to help with said care.
You can think whatever you want. That doesn't make it true. I'm sure there are plenty of fathers who would love to help with their children but are to scared of what would happen if the wrong person in the family finds out dad changes diapers or gives his child a bath.

ETA: I know at least one single dad who gets comments about helping his daughter with more personal issues. The discrimination isn't with two dads, it's with having a dad that your comfortable enough with to go to about these issues. Yeah, it sucks and yeah it needs to change. But ignoring the stigma out there won't change it.
post #80 of 170
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
No, I believe CPS gets involved for a variety of stupid reasons. Not vaxing, home schooling, grudges, ect. What I said was.. there has to be more than Dad changing daughter's diaper for CPS to be involved. I cannot and will not believe our society is that ignorant.. yet.
Yes, I agree that CPS wouldn't be likely to open a case because someone said, "The father changes the baby's diaper." However, I think most people know this -- or else they'll find out the first time they call the hotline and are told, "A father changing a diaper or bathing a child is just a parent caring for a child. We only investigate suspected ABUSE OR NEGLECT."

After this, I suppose someone who really has a bee in their bonnet and thinks it's just too weird for the dad to be this involved, MIGHT figure out something to add just to get CPS involved -- i.e. "I saw this dad changing his daughter's diaper, and then he was putting cream on her and he spent a lot of time doing it and seemed to be trying to STIMULATE her" --

I don't know, I'm just guessing that people who are freaked-out about stuff will figure out what they need to add to make it report-worthy.
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