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Feeling so sorry for men today -- Vent - Page 5

post #81 of 170
Thread Starter 
And, to add to my previous post, while it's true that a freaked-out person could also totally fabricate something -- they'll be less likely to fabricate if they haven't seen anything to freak them out in the first place. I think this is what some people here are talking about -- they're just not wanting to send out "red flags" unnecessarily.
post #82 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyantavid View Post
While I don't think the woman handled that incident particularly well, the last long thread we had here showed that this is the exact way moms of boys should handle taking their boys to the bathroom. Maybe she was a mom here and read that and despite her own fears, she was trying to make the women of the world more comfortable.

Its very hard to make sure no one is ever offended.
Oh I don't think that was the exact way that was suggested in that thread...I posted on that thread and didn't see anything about "imply that any male leaving the restroom might have touched you."

Quote:
Originally Posted by claddaghmom
How about if everyone who keeps saying to change the world offers her child up first.

Well, I have a son. He uses the men's room alone. So I guess I have "offered him up".

This is not rocket science. The kid goes in. You wait. If he's taking longer than you think he should you say "why are you taking so long?" The kid answers.

If you are genuinely afraid, you barge on in there.
post #83 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
I will gladly offer my child up first so her father can change her diaper and or give her a bath at appropriate ages.

And I will never believe that a father who refuses to help in the care of his child because he "might be accused of molesting her" is throwing out anything other than an excuse to help with said care.
Yes, you have pointed this out several times. Taking my statement out of context to further support your tangent is taking it a bit far.

Why do you feel the need to keep tossing this line out? It seems quite disrespectful, as if you want to dig into someone and get a response.

DH has always loved coparenting DD but I am sure that he would try to change his behavior and the situation itself if there was some question of sexual molestation. It does no good to keep right on trucking when you are dealing with allegations and suspicions of abuse. It has to be dealt with. You can't shove your head in the ground and declare that it is some excuse to get out of parenting.
post #84 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl View Post
Ummm...just deriving this from my own childhood here (which was a long time ago), but isn't eight old enough to go to the restroom without parental supervision? I guess that is what I find the most creepy about this story.

Were I your husband I certainly would have had words with that crazy lady.
I don't know...my daughter will be 7 this summer and I wouldn't let her go to the restroom unsupervised yet... My son is 5, but autistic, and I think it will be a looooooong time before he's allowed to go by himself.
post #85 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyantavid View Post
While I don't think the woman handled that incident particularly well, the last long thread we had here showed that this is the exact way moms of boys should handle taking their boys to the bathroom. Maybe she was a mom here and read that and despite her own fears, she was trying to make the women of the world more comfortable.

Its very hard to make sure no one is ever offended.
Huh? Are you joking? I didn't read the thread, but I cannot believe the "right thing to do" to "make women more comfortable" is to accuse men who use the men's room to be molesters...? This makes no sense. Or do you mean to send an 8 yr old into the mens room?

And, I guess it IS hard never to offend anyone. But heck- accusing someone of being a child molester is pretty easy to "verbally avoid" .
post #86 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexsam View Post
Huh? Are you joking? I didn't read the thread, but I cannot believe the "right thing to do" to "make women more comfortable" is to accuse men who use the men's room to be molesters...? This makes no sense. Or do you mean to send an 8 yr old into the mens room?

And, I guess it IS hard never to offend anyone. But heck- accusing someone of being a child molester is pretty easy to "verbally avoid" .


Yeah and this situation calls to mind debecker's book where he says parents need to be specific when speaking w/ their children about 'bad' things. I would hazard to guess the 8yo was the only person in the whole situation who had no idea what was going on.
post #87 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
That is an absolute load. There is no police officer in his right mind, nor CPS agent is going to take kids, dad away from the home cause dad changes his daughter's diaper. That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. It's just not.. going.. to happen. And pretending like it might is totally doing a disservice to everyone in society as well as your children.
Unfortunately not all LEOs or CPS workers are "in their right minds". And not only that, unfortunately racism, homophobia, religious discrimination, ect. is still very much a big problem in some areas, and there are plenty of cops and social workers who share those prejudices.

So yeah, were I a member of a group likely to be discriminated against (same sex couple, single parent male or female, person of color, ect.) then I frankly would probably feel more concerned about both the systemic reaction to a call about me as well as the likelihood of somebody making a false call. This is not something I would have thought about before spending time as a foster parent and corrections officer. Now I know better, much to my dismay.
post #88 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
You can think whatever you want. That doesn't make it true. I'm sure there are plenty of fathers who would love to help with their children but are to scared of what would happen if the wrong person in the family finds out dad changes diapers or gives his child a bath.
We will just have to agree to disagree .. cause I don't agree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claddaghmom View Post
Yes, you have pointed this out several times. Taking my statement out of context to further support your tangent is taking it a bit far.
Hrmmm I did not take your statement out of context. If I did... I think you need to clarify exactly what you meant.
post #89 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by churndash View Post
I think you may have misread my post. I don't think the woman behaved reasonably at all.

And I don't think the husband "decided" to feel embarrassed. If someone loudly accused me of touching their child inappropriately, I'd be horrified, and it wouldn't be something I'd even have time to "choose" about.
I don't think asking the KID if someone touched him is accusing, asking the man "did you touch my son" would be accusing, but asking the kid, no, not at all...I wouldn't of said it, cause I do actually trust my daughter to tell me if she is ok or not (not my son, like I said before, he is autistic and doesn't get it...he will tell you he feels perfectly fine a tenth of a second before puking for example...but I don't let him go places without me because of that)...but, that said, at 6, I wouldn't trust Janelle in a mens room...luckily, she's female, so it will never come up, but I don't think little boys are more safe in a mens room just cause they are male...
post #90 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by churndash View Post
This is not rocket science. The kid goes in. You wait. If he's taking longer than you think he should you say "why are you taking so long?" The kid answers.

If you are genuinely afraid, you barge on in there.
I agree. Ya know, bathrooms are not "holy ground". If you are worried about your child in the mens room, ya go in there (or knock and give a warning and then peek a little enough to see that all is well). I mean, the most likely scenario is a few sheepish guys and some apologies and most of them would understand. The bathrooms won't explode because someone of the opposite sex enters in an emergency.

Or, if you are that uncomfortable, take him in the women's room. Some "disaproving looks" won't hurt you and if someone "tells on you", well- explain, and "promise not to do it again" . Do you really care what some lady in a McDonald's roadside bathroom thinks if the alternative is a bunch of truckers and drifters in the men's room late at night? I don't. And I don't care if I'm scolded either. Whatever.

Or, you could wait until either is empty and go in with them ("Hello? Any guys in there? No? OK! I'm coming in..." or "Is this women's room empty? Little boy comin' through!"). Barring really busy very public spaces with a lot of traffic (which aren't really good "assault" environments anyway because there are many men coming and going so doing something wrong and private is not easy), most public bathrooms in resteraunts and stores are relatively infrequently occupied and this is easy enough to accomplish.
post #91 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder View Post
I don't think asking the KID if someone touched him is accusing, asking the man "did you touch my son" would be accusing, but asking the kid, no, not at all...I wouldn't of said it, cause I do actually trust my daughter to tell me if she is ok or not (not my son, like I said before, he is autistic and doesn't get it...he will tell you he feels perfectly fine a tenth of a second before puking for example...but I don't let him go places without me because of that)...but, that said, at 6, I wouldn't trust Janelle in a mens room...luckily, she's female, so it will never come up, but I don't think little boys are more safe in a mens room just cause they are male...
If there is only one person exiting the washroom and the mom yells in "Did somebody touch you?" then it is an accusation. It's not a direct accusation, but it is an accusation. She is just too scared to voice her opinion to the person she's accusing.
post #92 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
Are you sure it's not just an excuse not to bathe or change them? My DH used that excuse for years... then we had a son and he still tries to use it. We have been married long enough now that I tell him to suck it up and give them a bath/change diaper once in awhile.

It is sad however that we live in a world where that excuse to not help parent can be seen as legitimate.

To the OP, what that woman did was completely uncalled for. My son is only 2 but I would like to think that I wont have to fear him being molested in the bathroom while I am standing outside door yelling, "Are you OK?" and he answers yes.
In this day and age it is REALITY!!

I know a dad/family that was torn appart because during a talk about approprate touch at school his dd said "My dad touchs my bottom." The school nurse and doctors knew this little girl had major issues with not wiping. He touched her bottom for the same reason I touched her bottom to put medicine on them. I never bathed another child other than my own after that.

I know a mom that was talk to by a day care provider. She removed a tick from her son. It was attached close to the scrotem/shaft. He mentioned that mommy tickled my penis. Luckily the person used a little common since and he told how a tick was by his penis. They had to work with him on not saying mommy tickled my penis.

If you read many books geared towards dad they do talk about men's fear about touching thier daughters (esspecially during/after puberty) when they need it more.

When you are a dad seeing all this male sex abuser their views and fears are real.
post #93 of 170
My family is a lot like this. It's like they don't even trust the men they marry. It's all girls in my family (except the men we marry), and they're not allowed to bathe their kids - like even when their babies. My family has some kind of huge hang ups on this. They can't co-sleep with them, can't bathe them, can't go on vacation alone with them. It's really twisted.

I don't understand where this fear comes from - to my knowledge, no one has ever been molested in my family. Maybe it happened in their childhoods ... I don't know. But, they all have an over the top fear of men. To the point where it's totally irrational.

I can only imagine what they'll start saying to us when we have a baby!
post #94 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
My family is a lot like this. It's like they don't even trust the men they marry. It's all girls in my family (except the men we marry), and they're not allowed to bathe their kids - like even when their babies. My family has some kind of huge hang ups on this. They can't co-sleep with them, can't bathe them, can't go on vacation alone with them. It's really twisted.

I don't understand where this fear comes from - to my knowledge, no one has ever been molested in my family. Maybe it happened in their childhoods ... I don't know. But, they all have an over the top fear of men. To the point where it's totally irrational.

I can only imagine what they'll start saying to us when we have a baby!
wow that might be something you should demand an answer on!!
post #95 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsupialmom View Post
I
If you read many books geared towards dad they do talk about men's fear about touching thier daughters (esspecially during/after puberty) when they need it more.

When you are a dad seeing all this male sex abuser their views and fears are real.
Uhhhh, why would a daughter need to be touched more during and after puberty???
post #96 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by aniT View Post
Uhhhh, why would a daughter need to be touched more during and after puberty???
Once a girl reaches puberty, many fathers feel uncomfortable with everyday touching like hugs because the idea that once you reach a certain age, touching is far to intimate an activity to occure between father and daughter.
post #97 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by claddaghmom View Post
wow that might be something you should demand an answer on!!
I've tried. But, their answer is pretty standard "don't you read the news? You know how men are." My grandmother was a criminal judge, and she had a lot of rape/sexual assault cases. I think, for her, this is where it partly comes from.

But, the rest of them ... I don't know. My grandmother and her two sisters are from Europe, and lived through WWII together. They had to hide and be on the run, as their parents were teachers and Hitler was rounding up all teachers for the concentration camps. Maybe something happened then. I don't want to pry too much if it's a really painful memory.

The fear of men stems from them, and they infected their kids with it. I escaped only because my mom and I left Europe when I was 5.

The men in my family seem so honorable and "healthy" in terms of their mindsets. I mean, my grandfather is the gentlest man I know. I lived with my grandparents and my mom until age 5, and I never felt uncomfortable with my grandfather. So ... I'm thinking something happened in the past.

I try to just ignore their comments, for the most part.
post #98 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
I am far from naive about what can happen when children are left alone with strangers, both male and female.

I am not going to let those people affect me to such an extent that I live my life assuming every man I meet is a pedofile waiting to strike.
For sexual abuse survivors, all types of scenarios can be triggers, which was Claddagh Mom's point. As a sexual abuse survivor myself, I know there are situations that creep me out because they remind me of what happened to me. If I don't control the feelings when they first arise, I become panicky and probably seem a bit paranoid to anyone watching.

PTSD is very real and can have long-lasting effects. I can see this mom's fear rising to the level that she blurted out what she was thinking because she kept asking her son if he was okay. There are times that I absolutely have to leave a situation before I really freak out. This mom couldn't leave while her son was in the bathroom, and she may have just gotten overwhelmed.
post #99 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
Do you notice how quick you are to assume that if someone is falsely-accused or convicted, there must be "more to it?" I've heard similar comments about families that are dealing with CPS intervention for a variety of reasons -- there's always this idea that the authorities don't mess with people without an extremely good reason, which reflects rather badly on the few who are dealing with this.
The original quote referenced someone being arrested and convicted for a changed diaper. That's pretty unbelievable, especially given the very low rate of conviction for sexual abusers.
post #100 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
If there is only one person exiting the washroom and the mom yells in "Did somebody touch you?" then it is an accusation. It's not a direct accusation, but it is an accusation. She is just too scared to voice her opinion to the person she's accusing.
How did the mom know the OP's DH was the only person in there?
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