how and when (if at all) is it ok to push a little?

[1littlebit]

i have a friend who is pg right now and she said she really hopes to Breast feed. she's scared she won't be able to b/c most women she knows who have tried have told her they couldn't. she doesn't believe this.... she says it makes no sense for the majority of women to be unable to bf... but of course it's not exactly reassuring. i have given her the info for her local LLL and said i would be glad to go with her, i have told her i will give her as much support as i can, i gave her the kelly mom site, i am getting her a breast friend for her baby shower, etc.

my question is, after she has the baby, if she struggles with nursing is it ok to push? i have said this many times, i wish someone would have pushed me instead of trying to make sure i knew it was ok to FF. everyone said that BFing is no better then FFIng, that motherhood is hard enough w/o BFing (spoken like women who never FF a kid in their lives... easier my BUTT!!) i felt like a flipping pack mule every time i left the house and i start to hyperventilate every time i see a bottle brush! i know that what they told me is what your supposed to say. my aunt said she would have pushed me harder if she had known i wanted her too how was i supposed to know?!?!

how to you know when to encourage someone to keep trying and when to back off and tell them they tried and thats what matters? is it ok to recommend EPing? i want to smash my breast pump with a sledge hammer and i would never wish it on anyone so i don't really know about actually suggesting it yk?

so what are your thoughts?

[craft_media_hero]

I don't know. I'm glad my sis pushed me through the hard times. She just kept re-iterating, give it at least til she's six months . . . by then it was easy and I was hooked. I think it's okay to be passionate abt it and say how glad she'll be if she perseveres through the tough first couple of months.

I don't have any experience with EP, I just never left my baby til she was eating food! I tried pumping when she was little and it was a PITA, so I can't rly give you feedback on that.

Good luck to your friend!

[_betsy_]

Don't worry about it until after she's had the baby. If she calls you in frustration, help her a much as you can, suggest an LC and/or LLL and if she still needs help, say that you're going to tell her what you wish someone had told you.

One thing you might want to do is arm her with some word choices now - tell her she should be saying "I'm going to BF," not I want to, not I plan too, not I hope to, etc. I WILL.

Also, when oters start in in their horror stories about nursing, one thing I've found that really helped me was to ask "Does this story have a happy ending? I don't want to hear about weaning and formula feeding, thankyouverymuch."

[mamazee]

You might be upfront with her about how you feel. "I really wish people had pushed me more instead of telling me it was OK to formula feed all the time, so my reaction to that is likely to be pushing you to breastfeed. Please let me know if I get too pushy and/or you want me to back off, and I will."

[1littlebit]

Originally Posted by mamazee

You might be upfront with her about how you feel. "I really wish people had pushed me more instead of telling me it was OK to formula feed all the time, so my reaction to that is likely to be pushing you to breastfeed. Please let me know if I get too pushy and/or you want me to back off, and I will."

thats a really good idea! and it totally didn't even occur to me. shows how not helpful it is to over think things this is definitely something i will share with her... perhaps sooner rather then later so that she knows where i am coming from.

i also like the word choices... thats important i think. and not listening to peoples nursing horror stories. i have already told her to try and remember that every one who has come with in 30ft of a baby thinks they are an expert on the subject and that no matter how much experience someone seems to think they have they have never grown, birthed, or nursed her baby with her body... so really their experience is hypothetical at best.

[Viola]

My thoughts are that she knows formula is an option and she will turn to formula if she needs it, so you don't have to talk about that. I think if she struggles with nursing and talks to you about it, or asks you for help, or even if you are talking to her about the whole mom experience, you can talk about things from a breastfeeding is the norm perspective. You just commiserate and offer encouragement, support, information, but always from the working it out kind of viewpoint. At least until she tells you that she has changed her goal and doesn't find breastfeeding a priority anymore and is not going to continue.

I can't think of a good analogy, but I think it's kind of like a relationship where if you are having problems, you may work on it a long time before you realize it can't be fixed. The first time you have a fight with your spouse, hopefully you're not thinking, well, that's it, I guess we'd better do a trial separation. And if you talk to a friend, you don't want your friend immediately focused on it from the perspective of, "oh no, you don't want to get a divorce, this is why marriage is worth it." Nor, for that matter, from the view of "marriage sucks anyway, why do you even bother?" But once my friend has gotten to the point where she knows she is getting a divorce, I respect that she knows and is going to do what she feels is best.

Not that you would approach it this way, but sometimes I do think when people hear about breastfeeding issues, they may either think they need to tell the person it's OK to use formula or they should list all the reasons why breastfeeding is worth it. As the breastfeeding mother, you may just want a friendly ear and some sympathy. You may not have even really thought of giving up, but then it seems people are more concerned about the whole supporting your choice kind of thing, or may become kind of more invested in saying the right thing, the thing that makes the mother not give up. That can feel a little offputting

Sometimes a mother might just want to say, "Wow, this really sucks right now, I hate it" and you don't really know where she is going with that line of thought. I just assume if she's talking to me about breastfeeding, it's because she is doing it and wants to do it, and I offer support within that framework. I have heard women vocalize the wanting to give up kind of thing, and I know that sometimes I say things out loud because I just want to hear how it sounds to me, throw it out there and all that, but I already know what I'm going to do, and I'm just venting. So if I think someone is doing that, I just try and share how I felt the same way, and remember sitting there after a month saying tersely, "One month down, only 11 more to go!"

I think women may need to hear that wanting to give up might be a normal feeling, that feeling like you are going it wrong and it isn't working is a normal feeling. I have been in LLL meetings where someone says they don't think it's going to work because of X, Y and Z and they are thinking of weaning. Then 2 or 3 mothers share that they had some of the same issues, that a lot of that is within the realm of normal, and sometimes that is actually a relief to hear. I mean sometimes with the whole new baby thing, your emotions are upside down, you are worrying about a lot of things, and just hearing that maybe you aren't doing something wrong after all is just a relief, even if normal isn't exactly pleasant.

I agree with Mamazee too. Sometimes hearing things before you are in the heat of the moment and making up your mind then is what carries over.

If she does talk about things being hard and thinking she should just quit, I think you can talk to her about other options than just completely quitting. You can also ask her to think about whether or not her difficulties will be over once she switches to bottles. I think sometimes if the whole post partum transition is tough, certain things like breastfeeding might be seen as the main culprit, but weaning may not really solve the problem.

[AnnaNova]

i am kinda sorta in your shoes right now,
my sister had a baby in april and ive been pushing and pulling her through some bfeeding issues. i undestand that with a sister you can get away with bring more agressive than with a friend, but still, maybe you'll find my advice useful...
first, i could feel that she wants that pushing and pulling and support, she asked a lot of qs, and told me about what others told her (not always correct info), and i gave her examples from my own experience and research and tricks and tips i knew or read about.
try to sense if she is kinda on the fence or if her decision not to bfeed is final (if it comes to that).
and if she starts complaining and saying that she thinks of switching to formula, say something like 'ok, but before you do that, i know this great lc, lets talk to her first and see what she thinks, maybe we can fix this.'
and if she does have difficulties (which she won't necesserily) help her however you can - lend a breastpump, sample of lactation tea, print out some info...
when you offer possible solutions instead of simple 'im sorry for you', chances are she'll respond to that better than to just saying 'bmilk is better, so stick with it'.
a couple of times i got away with bringing my sister 'back to reality' by saying 'what did you think, he'd start eating mashed potatoes at 3 mo? yes, sometimes it is hard, but one day you'll remember these moments and miss them'... but again, she is my sister
oh, and its so awesome of you to be this supportive!

[krystyn33]

Originally Posted by mamazee

You might be upfront with her about how you feel. "I really wish people had pushed me more instead of telling me it was OK to formula feed all the time, so my reaction to that is likely to be pushing you to breastfeed. Please let me know if I get too pushy and/or you want me to back off, and I will."

I like this as well--upfront, honest, direct.

Once the baby arrives, hormones & sleep deprivation might make a conversation like this difficult, so best to have the air cleared ahead of time. Looking back, I wish I would have had such a talk with my sister and assessed her commitment ahead of time. Her first was FF'd at the start (lousy birth. lousy hospital but she did BF some for the first few months. Then I had DS & she saw me struggle at the start with cracked, bleeding nipples, etc. I was SO determined and adamant DS did not get a drop of formula--I think that sort of fostered the idea for her that it was an either/or thing. Later, when she was preg with #2 I knew she planned to BF but got a sense that her commitment wasn't strong. I arrived several days after the birth (we live 800 miles apart) and she was coping with the pain & sleep dep and everyone else pressuring her to FF (indirectly, by lamenting they couldn't feed the baby to give her a break). She started supplementing at night and then a day later when I woke she said our mom was out buying formula and she didn't want to hear a word--no judgement or pressure. Prior to this I had been as gently encouraging as possible--explaining it is a commitment to stick with it at first but it gets so much better, helping with positioning, etc. That day I noted that she had thrush and advised her of treatment protocols, and I said that could be extremely painful & would get better, but she was so certain she was DONE & she weaned during that second week of her baby's life. She admits she felt so strongly that it was right at that moment but she regrets giving up altogether. Turned out she had herself psyched out to fail b/c it would be too hard to pump at her job & then later she learned that some women manage to nurse while at home and supplement with formula--didn't have to be either/or. And her poor little girl gets so sick so often--she had viral meningitis and RSV within the first few months of her life and her immune system seems weak in general--I know my sis thinks BFing would have helped. Of course, it is a sore subject, so I say nothing.

Sorry for the long story, but I am perplexed by the same problem--how to be encouraging and supportive without being judgmental or pressuring enough to turn a mama off. Next time I would lean toward more encouragement & not be afraid of a little pressure--with consideration of course. But once you stop BFing it can be so hard to go back.

God luck!

[1littlebit]

thanks for all the responses they have been really helpful it makes me feel better to know that you all understand where i am coming from, wanting to be helpful and supportive, but not to point of judging or alienating.

i have noticed that family members often try and help by offering to feed the baby and such when in reality this is not particularly helpful if you are trying to BF. i am so used to repeating the party lines (yk the ones 'do whats right for you, there is no right or wrong choice etc) that it is hard for me to say something more direct and opinionated yk? she's one of my best friends and has been for almost 10yrs. i love her to pieces and we are a lot in like ... so i know if i am getting on her nerves she'll tell me to shut up and go away (she's blunt) so i really want to be able to encourage her and avoid her kicking my butt to timbuktu

our friends and I offered to go in together and buy her a breast pump since she is going back to work at 6 wks pp. she said she is borrowing a hospital grade pump from her friend at work who nursed and pumped for her triplets (talk about dedication) which is great and maybe this one is different then mine but i cannot imagine carrying my behemoth of a breast pump to work with me. it is about as unsubtle as it gets... not to mention its wicked heavy.

[siobhang]

Some of the best advice I got with bfing (I had a breast reduction and got a lot of great advice from other women struggling with supply issues as a result of breast surgery).

1. never give up the day you decide to. - meaning, sit with any decision for at least 24 hours before you act on it. This avoids the "3am, 3 week growth spurt, exhausted" decision. And you can always back out of any decision you do make at those exhausted moments (i.e. if you let dh give a bottle "so you can get some rest" - that may be enough to give you renewed strength to keep working on it).

2. You cannot honestly say you gave bfing an real try unless you a. tried for a minimum of a month, b. asked for outside assistance when difficulties arose (LLL, LC or a close friend who was successful), and c. tried at least a few different strategies based on the problems (see note below about health of mom/baby). Many women face challenges in their first month of bfing their first child - most of them are surmountable and will disappear.

3. breastfeeding is not all or nothing - every ounce of breastmilk is valuable, so if you have problems with supply, supplementing is much better than weaning. And supplementing can be the key to keeping baby at the breast in cases of low supply.
Just be aware of some of the risks of nipple confusion, potential impact on supply of breastmilk, and try to maximize the amount of breastmilk a baby gets, etc. Supplemental nursing systems, pumping, and herbal medicines and other techniques can be used to maximize breastmilk, if needed.

4. Breastfeeding is worth the fight, but it is not worth the health of baby or mom, if the two are in conflict (which they rarely but sometimes are).

[~pi]

Originally Posted by mamazee

You might be upfront with her about how you feel. "I really wish people had pushed me more instead of telling me it was OK to formula feed all the time, so my reaction to that is likely to be pushing you to breastfeed. Please let me know if I get too pushy and/or you want me to back off, and I will."

: Making it personal is (IMHO) the best way to approach these sorts of issues with friends.

The things that I have told friends who brought up the issue was that it was very difficult at first, but we pushed through and it got SO MUCH BETTER. I also give a timeline for expectations, e.g., "From what I know from other moms, it is not uncommon to have some level of trouble at first, but most women seem to find that things get much better after anywhere from a few to 6 to 8 weeks. For us, it was around a month that everything just clicked into place. Breastfeeding became so easy and lovely, and it's been like that ever since."

Best of luck to your friend.

[jessjgh1]

I agree with those that suggested asking now.... and giving her your experience. I wish I had family and friends that pushed me like that (they were supportive, but in the, whatever you want to do, you're trying so hard so if you decide to formula feed, its okay, kind of way, which wasn't what I wanted).
I have a friend that is upfront about that with her friends that were pregnant after her, she tells them she will push them- and they know what she went through (6 months of sns and pumping before her baby latched, etc), she tells them it might be hard, but she will offer whatever assistance she can (bring over food, shoulder to cry on, etc.).

It has worked well, although I don't think her friends ended up having too much of a hard time, but they also knew she was there, with support, references, food, etc.

Great to think of all this now, and hoping for a beautiful birth for your friend and a wonderful breastfeeding relationship.

Jessica

[momtob&t]

I haven't read all the replies so forgive me if this is repetitive, but I would say it depends on how close you are. I went through this issue with sil, but I didn't push, just gave her my advice when asked and called every few days to check how it was going, but in the end, even though I have breastfed for over 4 years of my life, she took hospital lactation consultants and her doctor's advice (obviously pro formula) over mine and gave up when she had supply issues (at three weeks old she quit, she gave him bottles of formula secretly from week one and shoved a pacifier in his mouth every time he cried, what did she expect? Can u tell this is touchy for me?! So I say yes, one if you are comfortable with it and two if you won't take it personally if she still quits anyway. Because I had such high hopes and getting involved made me feel like I had quit. I feel like a suggestion never hurt anyone and she can't get mad at you for that though.

p.s. I love all of siobhang's suggestions!

[Attached Mama]

I didn't get a chance to read all of the replies - tho there was some good ideas in what I did read.

For me, I'd say, yes, breastfeeding can be hard, but mostly due to misinformation. I wish that the right info about how things work had been more readily available to me. (For me personally, I will usually say how we had a really HARD time getting started and how I am so incredibly grateful for the 3 separate LC's that I had because I know a lot of women don't know where to get that kind of support).

Anyway, since she has brought it up, you might want to put together a brief packet of bf info for her "I know you mentioned that you had some concern over breastfeeding, so I've put together a little support basket for you. I wish I'd had more support". I'd make a basket with some nursing tea, lansinoh, breastpads, a book, something briefer than a book like a few print outs from Kelly mom (on latching and on the need to feed on cue rather than on schedule since those are 2 key issues to getting started), and then the names and phone numbers of the local LLL leader and local LC's. Maybe a water bottle to help her stay hydrated or a pretty glass - to keep next to where she nurses. Oh, and especially include a chart where she writes down how many wet and poopy diapers her newborn nursling has - with info on how that works. That is always a HUGE relief to a brand new nursing mom to be able to scientifically tell that her baby is getting enough - espec if she hasn't been around a lot of other successful nursing moms.

Then I'd reiterate how you learned it's so important to have support since breastfeeding isn't as common as it used to be in our culture and that you'd be happy for her to call you whenever etc.

Just my ideas....

[Sanveann]

I ditto the posters who suggested letting her know where you're coming from, and telling her to let you know if you're being too pushy about it.

A couple more thoughts:

* Try to keep positive. Plenty of women have zero breastfeeding problems -- my mom didn't with me, and I didn't with my second DS (DS1 was a different story, now!).

* Let her know that the first few days/weeks of breastfeeding can be difficult, but the baby won't always be so needy, and will learn how to nurse more efficiently. As Dr. Newman says, "Babies learn to breastfeed by breastfeeding"!

* Make sure she has things to make nursing easier. I'd suggest a good nursing pillow (I like My Brest Friend), some nursing pads, a bottle of Lansinoh and a set of DVDs or a gift card to a video rental place DS1 was a verrrrry slow nurser, and I watched SO much TV the first couple of months!

[KirstenMary]

Originally Posted by mamazee

You might be upfront with her about how you feel. "I really wish people had pushed me more instead of telling me it was OK to formula feed all the time, so my reaction to that is likely to be pushing you to breastfeed. Please let me know if I get too pushy and/or you want me to back off, and I will."

I think this is a great idea.

Also, help her to set small goals. Tell her not to think of breastfeeding in terms of years or even months. Help her get through the first few days. Then the days will turn into weeks. Suddenly, the weeks will be months. For a few struggling friends, this mentality is exactly what helped them get through the difficult times.

[1littlebit]

Originally Posted by KirstenMary

I think this is a great idea.

Also, help her to set small goals. Tell her not to think of breastfeeding in terms of years or even months. Help her get through the first few days. Then the days will turn into weeks. Suddenly, the weeks will be months. For a few struggling friends, this mentality is exactly what helped them get through the difficult times.

oo this is a great idea, thanks! setting little goals probably makes things seems much more possible. instead of thinking omg i can't imagine doing this for a year you think ok i can definitely do this until friday... and then on friday you can work for a few more days... and a few more ... a few days at a time would be especially helpful if you are struggling. it is much less intimidating

[Kappa]

I don't know, I am unaware what are the usual issues a Mom encounters when trying to breastfeed, but I know some basic issues such as nipple pain etc. can be up to 6 weeks to clear up, so as long as there is a path to clearing up the issue and Mom is not experiencing depression or a poor mood due to breastfeeding issues then I think it is ok to push. And by push I mean to cheerlead for the Mom.

[elanorh]

I have a good friend who lives far away who really wanted to BF, read up on all the books about it, asked for advice (I suggested LLL, finding 1-2 good LC's, reading the books, etc., lots of advice on getting through the first few days).

She ended up with an early case of mastitis, MIL and mother who would expect her to leave the room in her own house while nursing, and PPD with latch issues. And now ff's and is very sad about it.

I wasn't close enough to her to go visit, but sincerely believe that we can NOT underestimate the importance of checking in with new moms - bringing food and offering to wash laundry or whatever and asking how they're doing. That support in the first few weeks, is really important. I think many new moms (my friend certainly) are so overwhelmed by new motherhood etc., and if there is some PPD or latch issues or etc. on top of that, it's very difficult for them to advocate for themselves and get help. Supportive friends who can help them feel the confidence to get help, and help them manage the unimportant stuff (like housework etc.) so they can focus more on recovering, latch issues, etc. and get some sleep -- can really make a huge difference. It's also an opportunity to recognize early problems and head them off before they snowball, KWIM?

In addition, if they're from a strongly ff-family or friend group, your bf-friendly support can be good role modeling for the rest of their support system. "Feeding baby" becomes less their 'help mom' option once they've seen that actually, mom needs other things more.

[1littlebit]

i offered to make her some food that she could keep in her freezer and just pop into the oven for a bit when she is hungry.. i said i would make them in those disposable pan thingies so she won't have to worry about dishes :