Harry potter... do you ever wonder??? - Page 8

[Youngfrankenstein]

You guys are making my brain tired, but I loves me some Harry Potter so....


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[MusicianDad]

You also can't ignore the fact that the Malfoys had Voldemort using their home as a base, and I got the distinct impression that it was not a polite "May I use your home?" request, but more of "I think I need to keep an eye on you three so I am using this place to work from" order.

When traditional brainwashing tactics don't work for Voldemort, he uses fear. He is the one wizard everyone fears above all others. He uses that to his advantage. What I got out of the Deathly Hallows and a bit from Half-Blood Prince was the feeling that the Malfoys were at the point where they were terrified of what Voldemort might decide to do to them and the only way to protect themselves was to try and return to his good side.

[pixiekisses]

Yeah, like I said earlier. They are afraid of being killed if they deny him anything.

[MusicianDad]

Yup, Voldy might not understand love, but he sure understands fear.

[holyhelianthus]

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...s/viewpost.gif I think it's a theme through out the books that the major deaths are pointless. Cedric dying changed nothing, sirius's dying was completely unnecessary. At the end of book 6, it appears that dumbledore died for nothing, as the locket was not really a horcrux.

isn't that real life though? I mean how often does a death mean something huge? This was war of course people were going to die. To me it didn't matter if their death meant something on the grand scale they were still characters who died so in Harry's world still people he was close to that passed on and that affects a person.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

There are a lot of incredibly stupid rules in the Muggle world too.

Well, yes, wasn't saying there weren't. Just because we all need to ask ourselves the same question doesn't let the wizards off the hook.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by just_lily

There are certainly references in the book about how most wizards are lacking in basic logic. In Philosopher's Stone one of the things protecting the Stone was the collection of potions and the riddle that you needed to solve to figure out how to make it through. Hermione commented that it was just basic logic, and how difficult that would be for the average wizard to solve.

And did anyone else absolutely hate that Rowling didn't list out the order of the potions? It was like "awww, not enough information to solve the puzzle"

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

Aren't laws in the real world essencially set up like that in the real world? I mean they can't have a police officer on every single underaged person to make sure they don't drink. They have to rely on the parents to control their kids. Why should wizarding families be exempt from being parents, and why should people with more then one kid be exempt from keeping an eye on all of them?

But in the real world the cops don't get called if a kid opens up the liquor cabinet. Or rather, to make the analogy more accurate, if someone under a certain height opens the liquor cabinet.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

But in the real world the cops don't get called if a kid opens up the liquor cabinet. Or rather, to make the analogy more accurate, if someone under a certain height opens the liquor cabinet.

They do if someone under a certain age is spotted drinking out in the open. At home, a good number of countries allow parents to provide this child with alcohol in the home. But if someone calls the cops because they saw them drinking underage at the park or beach, then you child will get in trouble for it.

[coleslaw]

Originally Posted by journeymom

The name Albus means white. Rubius (Hagrid) means red. JKR says she was fascinated with alchemy and that Harry's life is about the allegorical transition a hero makes through a yellow, white, red, black and gold stage of life. Or something like that. Anyway, knowing that about her makes some of her weirder plot points make more sense.

I didn't know about this! There was also Sirius Black. What were the yellow and gold? I see Gryffindor's crest is red and gold, so maybe that? I would love more info on this. I'll go look too.

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by coleslaw

I didn't know about this! There was also Sirius Black. What were the yellow and gold? I see Gryffindor's crest is red and gold, so maybe that? I would love more info on this. I'll go look too.

Luna Lovegood: Luna = moon = silver. I don't know enough about alchemy to know how this is significant. But my understanding is that her name is meaningful in terms of Harry's progress through the stages.

At the very end when Voldemort is about to die the sun rises in the Great Hall and the place is filled with brilliant gold light. That's the moment Harry has reached the end of his journey.

Check out http://wc6.worldcrossing.com/WebX/?1...aNo3f@.ef4d335 and find the Alchemy Symbols: Silver to Gold/ 4 Temperaments thread. I think it's a little overwhelming, but interesting in small doses!

========

This one has a little better explanation.

http://wc6.worldcrossing.com/webx?14@@.1dde97f0

Also, I didn't know this before reading the first Harry Potter, but the philosopher's stone is part of real life history.

[wytchywoman]

Originally Posted by Daffodil

Why did Dumbledore even allow Malfoy to keep attending Hogwarts? I thought it was really strange that once Dumbledore knew Voldemort was back, and knew which kids' fathers were death eaters and were actively helping him, he would let those kids stay at Hogwarts. I suppose he must have thought it wouldn't be fair to assume the kids were bad just because their parents were. (Or Rowling must have thought it would ruin the story if all the bad kids were out of it.)

Because I think above all else, Dumbledore valued free will. He gave Harry the opportunity to prove that becoming Voldy's horcrux would not impact his decision making abilities and wanted to do the same for death eaters children. He would always want everyone to begiven every opportunity they could receive. Snape. Hagrid. Tom. He never persecuted anyone until he know beyond any shadow of a doubt that they had done some seriously wrong stuff. I also think he is a big believer in natural consequences and fate. He pays attention to prophecies, but I also think he realizes that life needs to run it's course sometimes and it isn't always a happy course either, but by trying to interfere and "fix" stuff, sometimes you make it ten times worse.
Also, someone had asked towards the beginning of the thread why wizards didn't have computers, tv's and such. Hermione mentioned in Goblet of Fire that there is no way Rita Skeeter could have used a "bug" or wire tap to overhear conversations, because the amount of magic present would interfere with any electronic device. I always kind of assumed that the same would be true for wizarding families in their own homes. If you are magicking stuff left, right and center, just to carry out your normal daily routines, I would think that standard muggle appliances would malfunction.

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by Daffodil

Why did Dumbledore even allow Malfoy to keep attending Hogwarts? I thought it was really strange that once Dumbledore knew Voldemort was back, and knew which kids' fathers were death eaters and were actively helping him, he would let those kids stay at Hogwarts. I suppose he must have thought it wouldn't be fair to assume the kids were bad just because their parents were. (Or Rowling must have thought it would ruin the story if all the bad kids were out of it.)

My answer is similar to Michelle's, above. You're right, it wouldn't be fair to judge the child by the father's actions. Dumbledore believed in giving kids fair chances, and he especially believed in second chances, best example being Snape. He also cared about all his students' well-being, including Draco's. But he certainly learned his lesson from his experience with Tom Riddle. I'm certain he didn't ignore the fact that Slytherin was full of little Death Eaters in training. In HBP Hagrid over-hears Dumbledore directing Snape to investigate his house.

Snape probably guessed that Voldemort ordered Draco to kill Dumbledore, and he told Dumbledore about his suspicion. Dumbledore very much wanted to protect Draco's soul. Snape even complains at one point, in Deathly Hallows, that it seems to him that Dumbledore values Snape's soul less than Draco's (or words to that effect).

However, I disagree that Dumbledore believed in natural consequences and fate. I think he was a big, fat meddler! And because he was cleverer than the average wizard mostly his machinations worked out right. But he used both Snape, and especially Harry, ruthlessly, terribly. By the end of OotP when he's explained to Harry why he put off telling him about the prophecy for so long (he'd come to love him like a son, he wanted to protect him, Harry had enough to be getting on with), he's seen the error of his ways, and from there on out he deals with Harry a little more bluntly and sternly.

The Prophecy: Dumbledore put little stock in prophecies. But he told Harry that because Voldemort did put complete stock in the one prophecy, and had therefor chosen to go after Harry, then effectively Harry became the prophecy boy. So, yes, Harry was "fated" to go head to head with Voldemort at some point. But Dumbledore told Harry that he did have a choice to either give up, or run away, or fight Voldemort bravely as best he knew how. And then Dumbledore proceeded to set things up, with Snape as the executor (!) of his plans, making it so Harry would stumble from one event to the next, exactly the way Dumbledore needed him to.

Dumbledore's goal was to destroy Voldemort, and he used Harry to achieve that end.

[Daffodil]

Here's something I was thinking about today. It sounds like every single Hogwarts student takes the Hogwarts Express from London. But wouldn't there be some students who lived far enough from London that it wouldn't make sense for them to go there to catch the train? (Though maybe the students from wizarding families just use the floo network to get to London instantly.) You'd think the train would stop at a least a couple of points north of London to pick up students who lived closer to Hogwarts, and maybe some kids would get dropped off in Hogsmeade by their parents instead of taking the train.

[1littlebit]

thats a good point! seamus finnegan was irish and i suppose he could have lived in england.. but i don't think there was a school in ireland was there? france and then wherever durmstrang was... so would wizarding kids from other countries have to get to england to catch the train?

and i still want to know how a bunch of underage wizards are supposed to disapparate our the hogs head

and if the mirror of erised made it so that only someone who wanted to find the stone but not use it could get it then wouldn't the stone have been safer if harry had never gone and tried to stop quirrel?

[Daffodil]

Originally Posted by journeymom

But he used both Snape, and especially Harry, ruthlessly, terribly.

I ended up feeling poor Snape was used the most terribly. I had expected that the huge sacrifice he made by risking his life as a double agent, and then killing Dumbldore and making everyone hate him and believe he was evil, would turn out to be worthwhile, because making Voldemort trust him completely would put him in a position to do something important to help destroy Voldemort in the end. But that didn't happen. None of Snape's work as a double agent actually seems to have helped in any important way. He died hated undeservedly just because Dumbledore was embarrassed to have anyone know he had destroyed himself because he couldn't resist temptation and put on that ring.

[1littlebit]

snape is one of my favorite characters.. i feel like he really got a raw deal. i kind of like him... he's ... i don't know hard to explain.

i like bellatrix to though so

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

They do if someone under a certain age is spotted drinking out in the open. At home, a good number of countries allow parents to provide this child with alcohol in the home. But if someone calls the cops because they saw them drinking underage at the park or beach, then you child will get in trouble for it.

Ah, good point. And that also has the chance of the wrong kid being blamed.

[coleslaw]

I just went on JK Rowling's website. She answers some of the questions asked here. One I found was the truth serum question. It won't let me copy and paste, but the basic idea was that because Barty Crouch was out of it and didn't know the truth serum was coming, it worked ideally. If someone is given it and is of sound mind and knows what is coming, they may be able to find a way around it.

[LiamnEmma]

Harry was in Slughorn's class because he needed NEWT level potions to become an Auror.

And Slughorn accepted lower OWL scores than Snape, so even though Harry would not have been able to go on to NEWTS had Snape been teaching, he was able to because Slughorn had taken over Potions. He had earned a high enough OWL in defense against the dark arts that Snape had to accept him into that class for NEWTS.