Harry potter... do you ever wonder??? - Page 4

[texmati]

Originally Posted by 1littlebit

keep posting!! i love this too. didn't sirius tell him to look in the mirror and say his name? i thought that it was sort of obviously what the mirror did... he said he and james used to use them to talk when they had separate detentions.

That was on the note that harry read after sirius died. I think

BTW, I think you are right about snape coming to dumbledore before lily died.

Now I'm going to have to crack open those books tonight.

[Pinoikoi]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I do wonder how many students are supposed to be at Hogwarts, but Rowling doesn't know herself, so I'll never figure it out. Using one measure, I'd guess under 300 (approx. 70 in each house). Just based on general descriptions and overall "vibe", I'd say closer to 1000.

I actually think about this on a deeper level.. If a student only needs to pass an Owl or a Newt to "complete" a certain type of education, then wouldn't there be a few classes with TONS of first years and a few sorry looking older students in the same class that hadn't passed it yet? There is a huge difference in maturity between an 11 year old and a 17 year old. How were the classes scheduled (what a nightmare that must have been)? How many preps did each professor have to prepare for? Who was responsible for the legitimacy and accuracy of the Newt and Owl exams? How many classrooms did there need to be to house all the classes and what was the average size of the class? What was the student to teacher ratio?

Why has my oldest son's letter not arrived yet? (seriously, he just turned 11)

[EviesMom]

Originally Posted by texmati

I never really got that either... They kind of glossed over that in the book.

The other thing is why did the portkey bring him back to the grounds? I never ever understood that. Did one of the 'shadows' that came out of the wand bewitch the portkey to make it come go back to hogwarts?

THAT is an excellent question too! Didn't they say at the Quiddich World Cup that the portkeys were done once they'd been used? They had to set up new ones IIRC didn't they? So someone would have had to re-set it to return, right? In which case, why didn't they set something closer and easier for Harry to grab instead of the cup?

[Sailor]

Originally Posted by EviesMom

THAT is an excellent question too! Didn't they say at the Quiddich World Cup that the portkeys were done once they'd been used? They had to set up new ones IIRC didn't they? So someone would have had to re-set it to return, right? In which case, why didn't they set something closer and easier for Harry to grab instead of the cup?

Yes, I thought that was true too.

What I found improbable was that, after getting to the cemetery, a newly "born" and incredibly powerful dark lord, along with several of his death eaters, still let a 15(?) year old get away. Not only did he get away, but he also managed to drag Cedric's body with him.

I know he had that whole "help" from his parents ... but, still. The kid was 15, facing an incredibly powerful wizard, and surrounded by several powerful adult death eaters.

Though, of course, I realize he HAD to get away in order for the books to continue!

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Pinoikoi

I actually think about this on a deeper level.. If a student only needs to pass an Owl or a Newt to "complete" a certain type of education, then wouldn't there be a few classes with TONS of first years and a few sorry looking older students in the same class that hadn't passed it yet? There is a huge difference in maturity between an 11 year old and a 17 year old. How were the classes scheduled (what a nightmare that must have been)? How many preps did each professor have to prepare for? Who was responsible for the legitimacy and accuracy of the Newt and Owl exams? How many classrooms did there need to be to house all the classes and what was the average size of the class? What was the student to teacher ratio?

I've thought about all that stuff, too. The class structures, etc. don't seem to make a lot of sense to me. I can't think of a single case where a student from another year is in a class, and that makes no sense, as you point out. When you're moving through individual classes, not whole grades (like high school, not elementary school), you always get at least a few kids from other levels in some classes. Hermione, for example, would probably be taking at least a few more advanced classes, with older students. It also seems weird that the classes continue to be taken by house/age group (eg. 3rd Gryffindors in Divination), even though the students are splitting into different courses. The scheduling just doesn't ring true.

[1littlebit]

another thing i was wondering is about the first book (sort of) ron said that all of the wizards who went bad were in slytherin (so not all slytherins went to voldermort but he had a ton of supporters so apparently quite a few of them did) they also said that families are often in the same house (also there are exceptions.. sirius, the patil twins etc) and then the sorting hat said that harry would do well in slytherin b/c of talent, cleverness, wanting to prove himself etc. he was also brave so it considered gryffindor... but why was he more of a fit for slytherin? its not like all of gryffindor is brave and stupid.. so why was he better fit for slytherin?

all of slytherin left in the seventh book when voldemort was coming but harry would have never left. he wasn't pure blood and didn't care if people were or not. i guess i don't really get why he would have been a good fit for slytherin

and if it's talent, cunning, wanting to proove yourself and such how in the heck did crabbe and goyle get into slytherin? they aren't talented at all. they are kind of just big mean and stupid. slytherin was into pure bloods and only wanted to teach pure bloods.. which means harry shouldn't have even been considered.... i don't know it just seems a bit off to me..

and cedric too.. moody sad by the time he was in his fourth year he could turn a whistle into a watch and make it sing you the time... so wouldn't that kind of talent mean he was more suited for ravenclaw? and zacharias smith always seemed way to nasty to be in hufflepuff.. i didn't think they were supposed to be the nasty ones.. helga hufflepuff wanted to teach anyone who was magical!

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by 1littlebit

another thing i was wondering is about the first book (sort of) ron said that all of the wizards who went bad were in slytherin (so not all slytherins went to voldermort but he had a ton of supporters so apparently quite a few of them did) they also said that families are often in the same house (also there are exceptions.. sirius, the patil twins etc) and then the sorting hat said that harry would do well in slytherin b/c of talent, cleverness, wanting to prove himself etc. he was also brave so it considered gryffindor... but why was he more of a fit for slytherin? its not like all of gryffindor is brave and stupid.. so why was he better fit for slytherin?

all of slytherin left in the seventh book when voldemort was coming but harry would have never left. he wasn't pure blood and didn't care if people were or not. i guess i don't really get why he would have been a good fit for slytherin

and if it's talent, cunning, wanting to proove yourself and such how in the heck did crabbe and goyle get into slytherin? they aren't talented at all. they are kind of just big mean and stupid. slytherin was into pure bloods and only wanted to teach pure bloods.. which means harry shouldn't have even been considered.... i don't know it just seems a bit off to me..

The pure blood thing doesn't really apply, anyway. Snape was in Slytherin, and he wasn't pure blood. Voldemort was in Slytherin, and he wasn't pure blood, either.

I think the sorting was a bit random, really. But, I think the real reason Harry would have been a good fit in Slytherin was supposed to be the fact that he was basically a living Horcrux. He had a piece of Voldemort's soul in him, and that made him a natural fit for Slytherin.

The "every wizard that ever went bad was in Slytherin" thing wasn't even true in the context of the books. I don't know about people like Barty Crouch, Jr...but both Peter Pettigrew and Sirius Black were in Gryffindor, and whether people believed Sirius or not, the person who betrayed the Potters had to be a Gryffindor...not a Slytherin.

I honestly think the fact that all the Slytherins (except Slughorn) left for the big battle had more to do with the extreme polarization that had occurred during Harry's time there. The Slytherin/Gryffindor rivalry had reached new heights, especially with Snape's utter hatred and contempt for Harry. I would guess that in other years, there would have been at least a few who stayed.

and cedric too.. moody sad by the time he was in his fourth year he could turn a whistle into a watch and make it sing you the time... so wouldn't that kind of talent mean he was more suited for ravenclaw? and zacharias smith always seemed way to nasty to be in hufflepuff.. i didn't think they were supposed to be the nasty ones.. helga hufflepuff wanted to teach anyone who was magical!

I agree on a lot of this stuff. I really think the sorting is pretty random.

[Princess ConsuelaB]

Originally Posted by EviesMom View Post
I think the Weasley's say something about that at some point after Ron is of age, basically, they can't tell who it is, so technically, they all could have done as they pleased at the Burrow and no one would have been the wiser/known it wasn't adults or of age students doing it. They pretty much rely on the parents to discipline the kids wrt magic unless it's a non-magic household.

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

Yeah - that's the impression I got. So, the rule basically only applies to kids in Muggle families, and it still makes no sense. What if Ron or Hermione was visiting Harry, for example? They still can't tell who actually cast the spell, and not every Muggle family is going to ban all wizarding friends from visiting. There's no way a wizarding parent could ensure that their child never broke this rule, especially if they have multiple children, and some are of age.

I really found this part was just not thought through at all

See, I think it's akin to underage drinking; it's illegal and you're in trouble if you're caught...but you have to be caught kwim?

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Princess ConsuelaB

See, I think it's akin to underage drinking; it's illegal and you're in trouble if you're caught...but you have to be caught kwim?

Oh, I get that. But, then why have the whole trace thing going on? It's basically like saying if you live with Muggles, you have to follow the rule, but the rest of the kids don't. And, there's no allowance for it maybe being someone else who did the magic. That's what happened with Dobby, but didn't have to be a house elf. It wasn't handled very well.

[1littlebit]

the trace thing doesn't make sense really... if it could tell you who was doing magic they would have known it was dobby not harry. if it just alerts them to magic around underage wizards then they couldn't put it on kids with wizard parents and in book seven before harry comes of age ron and hermione wouldn't be able to do magic around him yk?

[Ruthla]

I think JKR was poking fun at some of the idiocy of beurocracy. Look at how flying carpets are contraband yet flying broomsticks are allowed! Plenty of real-life laws are equally random. Why is marijuana illegal yet both alcohol and tobacco are not? I remember reading about a teen mom who could sign the permission form to get her baby's pierced ears, but couldn't sign the same form for herself.

Some laws are just random, and unevenly enforced.

[1littlebit]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

I think JKR was poking fun at some of the idiocy of beurocracy. Look at how flying carpets are contraband yet flying broomsticks are allowed! Plenty of real-life laws are equally random. Why is marijuana illegal yet both alcohol and tobacco are not? I remember reading about a teen mom who could sign the permission form to get her baby's pierced ears, but couldn't sign the same form for herself.

Some laws are just random, and unevenly enforced.

sort of O/T but a teen mom i know tried to brought her baby to the tatoo parlor to prove she was now allowed to sign legal documents. they let her too... but i don't think it was legal since i think it is only applicable when the consent form is for the baby

[Pinoikoi]

Originally Posted by 1littlebit

...they also said that families are often in the same house... how in the heck did crabbe and goyle get into slytherin? they aren't talented at all. they are kind of just big mean and stupid. slytherin was into pure bloods and only wanted to teach pure bloods..

I think you answered this question yourself. If Crabbe and Goyle's parents had been Slytherin, then I think Slytherin would have been the best fit for them. I certainly can't see them in say, Griffindor, can you?

[1littlebit]

lol no not really... but they don't have any of the qualities slytherin liked except that they weren't muggle born. it just seems like they got put there b/c they were death eater material yk?

[EviesMom]

Originally Posted by 1littlebit

lol no not really... but they don't have any of the qualities slytherin liked except that they weren't muggle born. it just seems like they got put there b/c they were death eater material yk?

My understanding on this is that Slytherin would never accept a muggle-born, and only clever half-bloods (Snape and Riddle would have applied here); and then was heavily family-centric. So Goyle as a half-blood might not have made it, etc.

I think the thing with Cedric and Ravenclaw is that Ravenclaw is about academic merit, but it's weighted toward book learning/memorization topics... ie-Runes and history but less favorable toward practice/nature oriented ones like charms or herbology. I would guess it would run that the head of Magical Creatures is often Griffindor; Potions Slytherin; Charms Hufflepuff; Ravenclaw Runes.

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I've thought about all that stuff, too. The class structures, etc. don't seem to make a lot of sense to me. I can't think of a single case where a student from another year is in a class, and that makes no sense, as you point out. When you're moving through individual classes, not whole grades (like high school, not elementary school), you always get at least a few kids from other levels in some classes. Hermione, for example, would probably be taking at least a few more advanced classes, with older students. It also seems weird that the classes continue to be taken by house/age group (eg. 3rd Gryffindors in Divination), even though the students are splitting into different courses. The scheduling just doesn't ring true.

It makes perfect sense for the country in which it is set. First years do classes with first years, seventh years with seventh years, and never the twain shall meet.

[VeganMamaRed]

I have terrible insomnia and I find myself laying in the dark in the wee hours of the morning picking Harry Potter apart bit by bit and trying to puzzle it back together. I get way too into it and start wondering about other parts of their life, etc.

My six year old daughter is a mini-insomniac and she does the exact same thing. She has created her own little fan fic where Snape has a daughter named Chloe who is good and she has gone so far as to draw elaborate pictures of thier house and make up detailed and complicated back stories to go along with it.

I love Harry Potter and am enjoying reading this thread.

Something that I always wondered about was how everyone kept telling Harry how safe he was at Hogwarts and how nothing could harm him with Dumbledore keeping an eye on him there. Uh, this was contradicted again and again in book after book. I just don't get why people would continue to have such blind faith in Dumbledores ability to keep Harry safe there when so much was getting past him, kwim? Quirrel, Tom Riddle from the diary luring him into the tunnel thingy, Sirius Black breaking INTO Gryffindor tower (obviously Sirius was not bad but at the time most people believed him to be), the TriWizard Cup. And yet, everyone continued to insist that he didn't have to worry because he was safe and snug at Hogwarts with Dumbledore overseeing him. Just didn't make sense to me.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Irishmommy

It makes perfect sense for the country in which it is set. First years do classes with first years, seventh years with seventh years, and never the twain shall meet.

But, it still doesn't make sense. Once the classes have started to split into electives, it's highly unlikely the same set-up would still exist. Take Divination. I doubt it would be a Gryffindor class - it's more likely that it would be a few Gryffindors, a few Ravenclaw...maybe a few each of Hufflepuff and Slytherin, as well. IIRC, by 6th year, it's still all Gryffindor or "Double" classes, and nothing else. That just doesn't sound right, once kids are all taking different classes.

I will admit that I don't know a lot about the UK educational system, though. My few friends in the UK never gave me the impression it worked that way. Since people can fail some courses and pass others, I honestly have trouble even imagining that. Maybe I'll talk to ds1's ex, and ask her about it.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by VeganMamaRed

I have terrible insomnia and I find myself laying in the dark in the wee hours of the morning picking Harry Potter apart bit by bit and trying to puzzle it back together. I get way too into it and start wondering about other parts of their life, etc.

I actually do this with a lot of books...more with HP than with some others, though.

Something that I always wondered about was how everyone kept telling Harry how safe he was at Hogwarts and how nothing could harm him with Dumbledore keeping an eye on him there. Uh, this was contradicted again and again in book after book. I just don't get why people would continue to have such blind faith in Dumbledores ability to keep Harry safe there when so much was getting past him, kwim? Quirrel, Tom Riddle from the diary luring him into the tunnel thingy, Sirius Black breaking INTO Gryffindor tower (obviously Sirius was not bad but at the time most people believed him to be), the TriWizard Cup. And yet, everyone continued to insist that he didn't have to worry because he was safe and snug at Hogwarts with Dumbledore overseeing him. Just didn't make sense to me.

re: the bolded. Peter Pettigrew was bad, and he got in, too...for years. I agree with you, though. The whole "you're safe at Hogwarts" thing was kind of ridiculous. He had to fight a basilisk, for crying out loud!

[Pinoikoi]

Originally Posted by Irishmommy

It makes perfect sense for the country in which it is set. First years do classes with first years, seventh years with seventh years, and never the twain shall meet.

So then there is a class of just seventh years that didn't pass their exams only if there are three of them?