News Article Mass Vaccination for H1N1

[limette]

We don't vaccinate and I'm not sure what the point is of the government's plan to immunize the entire Canadian population. It hasn't been that bad here and if they are vaccinating in case it mutates and gets deadlier then isn't the original vaccination irrelevant anyway?

Any thoughts on the article?

Article

[clutterbug]

Hmm, well I like that the article comes right out and says that there won't be any real safety testing of the vaccine. Kind of refreshing.

We are currently discussing whether we would get this vaccine. I am not really for it, but DH seems to lean toward wanting to have it. I guess the point of mass immunization is that if you significantly reduce the spread of the virus, then its rate of replication is reduced and therefore there's less opportunity for it to mutate...? Because you are right, if the virus mutates, the shot they are working on now won't do a thing to help people.

I am going to send my DH this article, maybe it will make him see things differently. Thanks for sharing!

[CarrieMF]

The article contridicts itself.

It talks about mass immunization, but also about trying to convince people to get it.

With our civil rights code they can't force everyone/anyone to get the vax but they can try to make it sound like it's mandatory.

[japonica]

Anyone see something ominous here?

Under Canada's official pandemic plan, the entire population would ultimately be immunized against the H1N1 swine flu.

One of the challenges will be getting people to agree to the shots.

Hmm...seeing as we do not have mandatory vaccination here anyway, I wonder how they're going to change policy or spin it in the media to make it so...

I like how they acknowledge that it will NOT have gone through extensive safety testing but that they are going to use it on children first anyway. As a parent, that should bring up a huge red flag...

And I'm living in one of the cities with the higher number of reported cases. People are going about their daily lives here, there's no mass pandemonium. No one is walking around in a mask. I think a new experimental vaccine for something that is not proving any deadlier than the usual seasonal flu is going to be a tough sell to many folks.

[1littlebit]

one day someone is going to have to teach vaccine companies that child is not synonymous with guinea pig... admittedly it is worrisome that pediatricians can't tell the difference either.

[Juvysen]

I'm worried about how this is going to go down over here in the US

[Magali]

Interesting how they mention that the reason the Native population is suffering more serious infection is because of poor living conditions. So the solution is mass vaccination. So often I read about how people in poor living conditions are more at risk for illness, and instead of using money to help them with clean water etc...they put mass vaccination programs in place.

[Gitti]

Those of you who do not believe in vaccines, stick to your convictions no matter what. Many people will join you. People who are pro-vaccine will turn the other way if a vaccine is being forced on them. They will refuse it for different reasons but they will join the fight.

If the general public is coerced to vaccinate, imo that will be the end of the vaccine program. Many people will get a eerie feeling in such a situation and then wake up as to what is really going on. There are many people on the fence now who will come down on our side. Every day more and more people are waking up to what is happening to them. They realize that we are just being fleeced by these companies.

Gardasil was a huge mistake for big pHARMa. It brought people into the anti-vaccine camp who would have never known about the dangers of vaccines.

Let them keep pushing. Push will lead to shove. I have a feeling that it will be a nightmare for allopathic medicine altogether. Because once people wake up, they quickly start to put 2+2 together.

Let them give it a try. I see only a positive outcome for us in the long run.

[newmum35]

Originally Posted by Gitti

Those of you who do not believe in vaccines, stick to your convictions no matter what. Many people will join you. People who are pro-vaccine will turn the other way if a vaccine is being forced on them. They will refuse it for different reasons but they will join the fight.

If the general public is coerced to vaccinate, imo that will be the end of the vaccine program. Many people will get a eerie feeling in such a situation and then wake up as to what is really going on. There are many people on the fence now who will come down on our side. Every day more and more people are waking up to what is happening to them. They realize that we are just being fleeced by these companies.

Gardasil was a huge mistake for big pHARMa. It brought people into the anti-vaccine camp who would have never known about the dangers of vaccines.

Let them keep pushing. Push will lead to shove. I have a feeling that it will be a nightmare for allopathic medicine altogether. Because once people wake up, they quickly start to put 2+2 together.

Let them give it a try. I see only a positive outcome for us in the long run.

Gitti, you are so smart. I agree with you here. This will get press coverage and more people will not be sitting on the fence (or will cross to the other side). I also feel and hope that maybe this could be the beginning of the end (for Big Pharma and the vaccine pushers)

But I do fear it could get uglier before it gets better. How many more people and children will suffer or die because of this? Unfortunately, I feel thats what its going to take before the "end of the vaccine program" becomes a reality because of the grip Big Pharma has on everyone. It's going to have to get much worse before it gets better. That's what scares me.

Around where I live, they don't put a stop sign at an intersection (out in the country) unless someone gets killed there. THEN a stop sign goes up (maybe it was a 3 way intersection and there was already one stop sign, but suddenly another goes up) ... someone gets killed, a law gets passed. What about common sense? Could they not see BEFORE someone got killed this might be a potential problem? Why does it always take a fatal accident to "improve" safety conditions on the roads? (this is a pet peeve of mine)

Just a little analogy, and I feel that's likely to occur with the vaccine program too. Something terrible has to happen before an improvement is made. I'm wondering if this mass vaccination campaign is going to be just the trigger that starts the ball rolling.

[maxwill129]

Originally Posted by Gitti

Those of you who do not believe in vaccines, stick to your convictions no matter what. Many people will join you. People who are pro-vaccine will turn the other way if a vaccine is being forced on them. They will refuse it for different reasons but they will join the fight.

If the general public is coerced to vaccinate, imo that will be the end of the vaccine program. Many people will get a eerie feeling in such a situation and then wake up as to what is really going on. There are many people on the fence now who will come down on our side. Every day more and more people are waking up to what is happening to them. They realize that we are just being fleeced by these companies.

Gardasil was a huge mistake for big pHARMa. It brought people into the anti-vaccine camp who would have never known about the dangers of vaccines.

Let them keep pushing. Push will lead to shove. I have a feeling that it will be a nightmare for allopathic medicine altogether. Because once people wake up, they quickly start to put 2+2 together.

Let them give it a try. I see only a positive outcome for us in the long run.

I agree. Dh questioned vaccines after our DS#2 had a vaccination reaction from his 2 month shots. But what really made him stop and think was the fact that the government seems to think they can mandate vaccinations, and he is so against the government telling him what to do! Since then he has listened to my research against vax's and is on board with not vaxing because he believes they are harmful, but I guess the point is that he first started questioning just because someone was telling him he SHOULD/HAD TO do it.

[peainthepod]

Originally Posted by maxwill129

I guess the point is that he first started questioning just because someone was telling him he SHOULD/HAD TO do it.

The question is simple, really. If vaccines are so self-evidently beneficial to children and families, why must they be forced on us?

Generally speaking, when someone tries to make you do something at the point of a gun, it's a pretty safe bet that it's not in your best interest. I wish more people had the basic critical thinking skills necessary to understand this. :

[ZoeyZoo]

I don't see how mass vaccination can be carried out in Canada. I thought mandatory vax was deemed unconstitutional? It's the US I worry about since it's not very clear legally whether our exemptions, religious freedoms, etc would stand up in certain situations.

[just_lily]

Gymnasiums would be used for mass school-based vaccination programs but experts say the harder to reach group will be the 18-to-30-year-olds.


"Some of them are in school, a lot of them are not," MacDonald said. "They're very much living in the moment and don't necessarily see themselves as being at risk. We need some fast thinking about how to reach those people."


She suggested booths could be set up outside bars for information and immunization.


"You've got to be creative about this and really think out of the box."

Outside bars? Seriously?? Their plan is to vaccinate DRUNK PEOPLE??

One of the challenges will be getting people to agree to the shots. There will be limited information about any vaccine's safety before immunization campaigns are rolled out across the country.

Hmmm.... how can we convince people to inject themselves with an experimental vaccine... I know! Let's get them drunk!!

Wow.

[japonica]

I was just going to ask ALL Canadians to put their legal hats on and snoop around a bit...I haven't looked at any pandemic policy and legislation but is there anything in it that says to the effect that 1) once a pandemic has been declared then pandemic policy takes precedence over all pre-existing legislation and the Charter and 2) they can legally enforce quarantine for those who refuse.

I'm really wondering about this. I'm usually in the "they'd never dare" camp but the rumblings I keep hearing in the press about "vaccines for ALL Canadians" (David Butler Jones was on the radio again today, see link below) makes me wonder where this is going and do they have the judicial authority to call for mandatory vaccinations or imposed quarantine of those who refuse...

Anyone?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/can...x4epOs_TVYVP3w

[syd'smom]

Originally Posted by japonica

I was just going to ask ALL Canadians to put their legal hats on and snoop around a bit...I haven't looked at any pandemic policy and legislation but is there anything in it that says to the effect that 1) once a pandemic has been declared then pandemic policy takes precedence over all pre-existing legislation and the Charter and 2) they can legally enforce quarantine for those who refuse.

I'm really wondering about this. I'm usually in the "they'd never dare" camp but the rumblings I keep hearing in the press about "vaccines for ALL Canadians" (David Butler Jones was on the radio again today, see link below) makes me wonder where this is going and do they have the judicial authority to call for mandatory vaccinations or imposed quarantine of those who refuse...

Anyone?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/can...x4epOs_TVYVP3w

Strangely enough I've just been doing some work about the Charter and its history. The War Measures Act (think Canadian-Japanese internment during WWII ) was replaced by the Emergencies Act in 1988.

My understanding is that the government's power is limited during a time of crisis and any measures implemented are subject to the approval of Parliament and any actions taken must take into account the rights of Canadians, as outlined in the Charter.

What that will actually mean in the real world - remains to be seen. I will not be testing out this vaccine on my family - thank you very much! :

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by peainthepod

The question is simple, really. If vaccines are so self-evidently beneficial to children and families, why must they be forced on us?

Generally speaking, when someone tries to make you do something at the point of a gun, it's a pretty safe bet that it's not in your best interest. I wish more people had the basic critical thinking skills necessary to understand this. :

Exactly!

They are just testing our reaction right. They want to see how we respond to: Vaccinate all of Canada. Or all of the US, etc.

If people stand back and say: Oh I hope not! They know they've won. Because people are just hoping but not actively objecting.

WE have to send a clear message: NOT OVER MY DEAD BODY!

Repeat it and say it every time when you hear they want to vaccinate all of the US or all of Canada. NOT OVER MY DEAD BODY!

They'll realize what they want AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. They will back off (at least for a few years).

[honeybunch2k8]

Originally Posted by Magali

Interesting how they mention that the reason the Native population is suffering more serious infection is because of poor living conditions. So the solution is mass vaccination. So often I read about how people in poor living conditions are more at risk for illness, and instead of using money to help them with clean water etc...they put mass vaccination programs in place.

I know thats right. :

[BunnySlippers]

Originally Posted by Juvysen

I'm worried about how this is going to go down over here in the US

Dont be worried, according to the article, the US wont be conducting mass vacinations due to the reactions from the last mass vaccination in 1972? when there were high numbers of people contraction Guillon-Baire syndrome from the vaccine.

I notice on the news yesterday that 60% of the cases in Manitoba are first nations people, yet they only represent 10% of manitobas population.
How sad for them to be living in such poor conditions in a country that boasts of equal rights and opportunity, and of taking care of thier own. What hogwash!

(I am a Canadian btw, I'm just displeased with the goverment and the crap they have and still put our first nations people through)


Oh I just read the article posted, it says nothing about the US. The article I read today in our local paper had the quote about it not being used in the US (or rather that the US was reserving judgment), it did also say the vaccine was going to have to be tested for safety- but how are they going to do that? probably by using it on children.

Ill see if I can find an electronic copy of the article I read.
http://news.guelphmercury.com/article/500827
Heres one, but in searching i found many more articles to contradict the statement about the US holding off. So I dunno.
I will no tbe getting this vaccine, regardless of wether they make it mandatory or not.

[Everrgreen]

A nurse talked about this vaccine in my mom-baby group a few weeks ago. She said it should be available in the fall. She seemed happy that there was going to be a vaccine available soon (especially for all of us with babies ). I didn't say anything but I was thinking it was pretty crazy to have a vaccine out so quickly, with no testing, and being suggested to moms with babies :