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Why Vaccinate?  

post #1 of 71
Thread Starter 
I know this is going to sound so stupid around here because usually the question is "why not vaccinate." But I here from a lot of people around here and IRL that say "I did the research and we chose to vaccinate." I guess with the research I have done, it has almost become a no-brainer to not vaccinate. Have I not looked enough on the "other side"?:LOL

My questions are...if you chose to vaccinate, what diseases are you concerned about? All? Will you delay? Will you selectively vax? Why?

Thanks so much!
post #2 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by Hilary
Therefore I would have to question exactly what their "research" consisted of.

Asking their doctor if they should?

probably that and reading paul offitt's book, and maybe watching the vidoe provided by the peds offices promoting vaxes...that along with reading the dummied-down info sheets that the health dept and peds offices give you about the vaxes...
post #3 of 71
I don't see how anyone that really researched could still vax.

Probably looked at the vis sheet or if they researched anything their doc said "oh no that's not true" and they believed it and vaxed.
post #4 of 71
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.

Allen Bloom - "The Closing of The American Mind"
post #5 of 71
Yeah..few Iknow would research. And those who may read will read the books that are "complimentary" of their Doctor via the pharmas. Then the word of their Docs and hear say (a friend of a friend didn't vaccinate and they...).

I too wonder from those who say they did deeply research and still choose to vaccinate-how did the ycome to that conclusion? I am genuinely interested. What if I am wrong? is the only thing I think will keep someone vaxing. Also, people still believe it is a law.
post #6 of 71
Thread Starter 
Glad I am not the only one who is puzzled by it!

I mean, I can't see researching and STILL wanting to vax but I thought that was just me.

But what puzzles me even more is the people that delay the vaxes. I mean, I can see blindly accepting your Drs. word. Many people do that. But to delay means you are concerned and would therefore research. I can't understand why one would only delay and not skip all together. I asked a delaying friend one time and she declined to answer (via email).

Delayers: are you delaying because you want to eventually have the requirements met for kindergarten? Or am I missing something? I really truly want to know I am not trying to be snotty. I just don't see it as logical to delay and I would like to see your side so I can be sure about (or change) my decision.
post #7 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by bjbjd
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.

Allen Bloom - "The Closing of The American Mind"
awesome quote. very fitting.
post #8 of 71
I think sometimes people rely more on experience, rather than what they have read on a subject.

For example, someone might give their children the DTP, polio, MMR vaccines, because they had them when they were smaller and are "fine." So, they figure, I did okay, my kids will too. And then it's easier to add the newer vaccines, because they did okay with the 'tested through time' ones.

Also, I don't think, at least in America, that people know what to do with sickness in this generation. Mothers are afraid of fevers, of vomiting, of rashes, of colds. Somewhere along the way, a large part of society has decided that these things are not supposed to happen, and they are willing to try anything to prevent it. And what kind of parent are you, who would let their child suffer with a virus or an illness when it can be prevented by a vaccine or an antibiotic.

Parents can be very trusting on what someone with a degree from medical school has to say. They figure, well, he/she went through all that study, they must know more than I do. Which medical people should know more, and a better way, but not all of them do.

And there's the huge fear factor of 'if your child catches x disease and dies from it, and they could have been vaccinated against it and lived...blah blah blah.' speech.

And finally, it is the whole, they won't get into school without their shots. How many people walking down the street know there are exemptions? My guess is very few.

Add all these things together, and I see more reasons to vax, then to not. Even selectively.

I don't think it's enough, a lot of the time, to just read that vaccines can damage and harm. I think there has to be an understanding that it's not just about not getting a shot, it's about what kind of food and vitamins and minerals you put into your body. Your sleep patterns, your activity level, the way you live your life, that gives you the immune system that you have. And then, you can start to understand that there might be a risk when you introduce something like a vaccine into a child's system.

And you also have to learn about illness, and how to treat it, and how not to fear it, but accept it as part of the life cycle. And that takes a while, maybe even our whole lives.

It's a journey, that probably starts with some reading, but really, I think that's just the first step.
post #9 of 71
RE: delaying-Here is what I have learned from those who delay. the ybelieve once the child is a few years old the immune system is able to handle the vaccines but one at a time. Oddly, a delaying mama once said to me "DS has been sick for every single scheduled shot-so he never got it. He is gonna end up with a bunch at once right before Kindergarten!" Others sware there is no "real" proof of danger passed age X. I originally was planning to delay-that ended up in stopping all together.

Sadly, my sisters best friend (in another state) is a mirobioligist due to her parents having some horrid disease years ago. This woman is all about vaccines. I mentioned investigating and her and Sis panicked. Said to discuss with me but never did. I left the subject and all assume (never bring it upo)that DS is vaxed. Also, did a websearch of the dfamily name-nrought up my cousins wife-who works for a pharma and is VERY provax. you all may have read my post where I had no idea what her job was and sent her mothering.com links hwile pregnant-lol. Apparently, the pharmas are threatened by Mothering magazine. She refused to read them due to "their anti vax status-the yare killing babies". She sent me the horrid books that literally turned me MORE off to vaccines! But her kid is first in line-her bosses have scared her to death!
post #10 of 71
Hi Jess!

FWIW, I asked this very question of someone on another board I used to visit and her response was that she talked with her pediatricians and read the information on the CDC website about the risks of the diseases the vaccinations are supposed to protect against. :

Unlike some, I *can* see why some people would choose to vaccinate even when presented with the same information that led many of us to choose not to. I think that one's environment could influence the decision. If my children were formula fed and went to daycare, for example, I would seriously reevaluate my stance on vaxes.

I can also see how some might be turned of by the anti-vax literature and, thus, be distrustful of it. It is almost impossible to find balanced literature on this issue -- everything is sooooo pro-vax or anti-vax. The way the anti-vax books present statistics is sometimes quite misleading and tricky, IMO, and they sometimes employ silly scare tactics (so does the pro-vax literature, of course). Someone who is skeptical of not vaxing to begin with see this and discount all the *valid* information. KWIM?
post #11 of 71
Quote:
Originally posted by morgan's_mom
I can also see how some might be turned of by the anti-vax literature and, thus, be distrustful of it. It is almost impossible to find balanced literature on this issue -- everything is sooooo pro-vax or anti-vax. The way the anti-vax books present statistics is sometimes quite misleading and tricky, IMO, and they sometimes employ silly scare tactics (so does the pro-vax literature, of course). Someone who is skeptical of not vaxing to begin with see this and discount all the *valid* information. KWIM?
I find myself a delayer this time around with my son, and I delay because I'm not sure what I want to do yet. It's hard to find the time to devote to mircrobiology, which is what it seems is neccessary.

I am definitly turned-off by the no-vax extremists.......just like I was turned-off by the no-circ extremists. It took my own distain of my own episiotomy to realize that I cannot endorse the mutilation of anyone's genitals--no scare tactics, or 'look at this video clip' things worked for me at the time.

But how would finding my own way work w/ vaxing? Oh gee, I guess my kid is now strange after a series of shots? That's too great a risk...but I am not fully convinced that vaxing is completely wrong.

So I'm here, trying to do a bit of research, weed out the decent info, prompted because my fellow mamas who cloth diaper and birth naturally also tend to think critically about vaxing.

So does anyone have an answer to the OT? "To avoid disease" seems to be the answer, but really?

I like the OT, because it's the backdoor question to the anti-vax school.
post #12 of 71
First of all, many of us chose to NO LONGER vaccinate after vaxing at least one child. (That's me!) And personally, I am just as likely not to vacciante if my child is in childcare, IMO his immune system-unlike his sisters-has already shown me it can fight illnesses quite well. And thru my investigations/education-my "treatments" are better and more educated!

DD is what they call "fully" vaccinated. She went o daycare from early on. She was always sick of some sort. She got some diseases she was vaccinated for. She got a weird autimmune disease-shall Igo on? Can I prove this is related? Not necessarily. But I can learn more about what I put into my child why I may/may not do it, and how to treat the illnesses my child may get...
post #13 of 71
Thread Starter 
Alison,
I can totally see your point about moms who don't know there is a choice, who don't research, who trust their dr. without doing their own thinking. But my question is about those who *DO* research. Thats what puzzles me.

Morgan's mom,
Quote:
her response was that she talked with her pediatricians and read the information on the CDC website about the risks of the diseases the vaccinations are supposed to protect against
:LOL I think I remember that :LOL Maybe thats the issue....most of the "research" they are doing is only research to validate their current opinion? :

I can see the point about the lifestyle issues. When Jake was in daycare (seems like ages ago) I really agonized over our vax decisions. I let my [now fired] ped talk me into his first round of vaxes. I let daycare scare me. Daycare is more germy than home...but I am certain Hep B and Polio aren't lurking in every corner. : Now I know his first round affected his immune system. I can see it. He is not as healthy as he could be. I knew whenever I quit my job that I would not vax. I was *pretty* sure of it. When his WBV came up again and it was time for more vaxes, I stood my ground but my ped berated me once again. It took really researching the subject to get comfortable with my decision. Thats my point. I knew vaxes were dangerous before the research, but once I spent days reading books and the archives to this forum, I felt *ABSOLUTELY* sure that we would not be vaccinating. I wasn't wishy washy about it once I did real research.
post #14 of 71
I think people can research vaccines and come to the decision to vaccinate, if they consider the odds of getting a vax reaction and the odds of getting a "vax-preventable" disease to be about equal. Or if a child is immuno-compromised, they may decide that the risks of certain diseases are greater than they are comfortable with and they want to do whatever they can to make sure their child lives.

We don't vax, BUT, a month ago when my 2yo was seriously suffering from the flu I was reconsidering that. Not for the flu vax, but for Prevnar and Hib. My whole family is deathly allergic to antibiotics, and not just one or 2 either, but vast groups of them. So I was concerned about her contracting a secondary bacterial infection while her immune system was still weakened from the flu. And then when I read how on military posts (that's us) over 70% of people carry the bacteria those vaccines are meant to prevent, I got really worried. In the end, I still won't do it, but I can understand other parents wanting to.
post #15 of 71
i thought OT meant "off-topic"
post #16 of 71
Maybe "original topic"??? Since the answer was "to avoid disease" and the topic is "why vaccinate."
post #17 of 71
How do you keep kids healthy when you do not vax? We have 3 kids, the oldest 2 were completely vaxed. The youngest won't be vaxed if I can be confident knowing I can help him if he becomes ill. We live in N. CA with lots of people from many lands and who knows what we'll be exposed to... I am suffering from some health probs now and am worried I can't help ds if he were to become seriously ill. I feel unprepared to fight a serious disease yet I know vaxing isn't right either.
post #18 of 71
Hilary, thanks for your reply (and maybe I'm wrong, I thought "OT" meant "original topic", but thanx mamas for piecing that one together!)

I guess I am just in the early stages of my research and understanding of this whole thing...and I'm basically pulled in two directions, to vax (because polio USED to be a problem--how was it solved? Vaccinations?) (BTW--I am not being sarcastic; I am truly questioning things here) or not to vax (I am quite sucpicious of pharmacutical companies, they're as corporate and evil as McDonald's, and if McDonald's could lobby the gov't to mandate Happy Meal consumption for kindergarten admission, you know they'd do it...)
post #19 of 71
Why vaccinate? Well, that's an easy question to answer!

We vaccinated. Never thought twice about it. Anybody that didn't was (obviously) a crunchy granola-type that didn't give a rat's a$$ about their own child's health, or anybody else's either. Vaccines are perfectly safe, the government wouldn't allow them to be administered if they weren't (just like Fluoride and "silver" fillings!). It is the LAW, you HAVE to vaccinate. You aren't required to sign anything at the doctor's office beforehand, and the doctors all know best. THEY love your children, and wouldn't cause them any harm. Vaccines ARE effective, look at how diseases have fallen by the wayside since they've had them. Anybody that doesn't vaccinate is causing harm to the rest of us by putting our health at risk just for their own twisted, uneducated fears. They aren't part of the rest of "us". Probably don't shave and eat organic tofu...UGH...

Sadly, this IS the view we used to hold.

We researched LOTS of stuff prior to ds birth. Breastfeeding (he did this until he was 4.5 years old!). Carseats. Birthing "methods" (we went Bradley and had a totally unmedicated birth, even w/o anesthetic for the episiotomy stitching!). We read all the pregnancy books and I ate better (nutritionally) then I'd ever eaten before! Dh rubbed my tummy with cocoa butter everynight of the pregnancy, and I haven't any stretchmarks. We did everything right.

BUT, the pregnancy books and (most) of the childrearing books tell you nothing about vaccinating, or devote a small area to the subject and the popular books are all pro-vax. The birthing classes tell you about circ and eyedrops and Vit K, diapers and birth plans, but not one word about vaccines.

We had a wonderful birth in the hospital. 5 hour labour (only 20 minutes of pushing!). We didn't know that ds didn't HAVE to have the eyedrops (fortunately, they didn't appear to bother him, no redness or anything). On Day 2, the nurse came in with a paper and pen and SAID (not asked) to sign the consent for his HepB shot, said it was our state law that all babies have it. Oh, okay, I signed. Honestly, I never thought twice about it. She said NOTHING about risks or WHY or anything. No, I didn't ask either, much to my later guilty feelings.

We went for those well-baby checks (of COURSE babies NEED them, how do we know their healthy?). He had his shots at 2, 4 and 7 months. Multiple shots at each visit. I was never asked to sign anything, never handed a VIS, never had risks explained. And, again, I didn't ask. I bought into the "the doctor knows all" line of thinking. I filled-in the sheet of "Is your child doing this?", proud that he was ahead of the written schedule of development. Never questioned why on earth doesn't the doctor ASK about this stuff. Of course, I knew, he is a very busy guy, can't take the time to actuall talk to the parents at all the well-baby checks. That would take too much time. Easier to just have them answer the yes/no questions on the paper and stick it in the file (I never did hear if they ever actually read those papers!).

For those 7-months vaccinations, he received 6 vaccines (HepB, Hib, OPV, DTP). Within 30 seconds, he lost consciousness and came damned near death. That routine well-baby check went from the usual 15 minutes to over 3 hours. He recovered completely, with no lasting effects. He has not been vaxxed since! The doctor never even noted this in ds medical file.

Well, this scared us into action. A dear friend, on hearing about what happened, casually mentioned vaccine reactions and having some information on vaccination, would we be interested in seeing any of it? We did, and have been researching ever since.

I think lots of people that say they've done the research and still vaccinate are just lying. They don't want to admit that we have and they haven't. They don't want to go against the tide. They don't want to be different (or have their children be different). They WANT to accept the line about vaccines (or ANYTHING) being safe.

Dh has a co-worker with a child 6 months younger than our ds and she is a die-hard "I-believe-everything-the-doctor-says". When I was quoted in a newspaper (the Washington Post) article on vaccination (I was in the "we-used-to-but-having-learned-the-truth-won't-anymore" section!), I emailed the article to everyone we knew (I was so excited!).

Co-worker's reply: "Interesting. Isn't it wonderful to live in a country that allows people to do this kind of thing."

I sensed a bit of sarcasm, don't you?

{{Interestingly, both her kids are in daycare situation, are fully vaxxed and I've yet to hear of them being healthy at any given time. They are always sick!}}

So, I DO understand why people choose to vaccinate. For all those reasons in the above first paragraph. People want to be accepted by their peers. We all want to be liked and respected for our decisions. They don't want to be different. They know that authority doesn't like to be questioned, so they don't. It's easier, safer, not upsetting.

It's easier to be a sheep than a shepherd. That is, until it's time for a mutton dinner.

Follow the current with the rest of the fish, and you get swept out to sea. Go the opposite way, and you'll see the headwaters instead!

People remember people that stand out, that make a stand for what they believe in. Raise your children to be leaders, not followers.

Leslie
post #20 of 71
Quote:
polio USED to be a problem--how was it solved? Vaccinations?)
A couple of points that the anti-vax authors make is that actually, diseases that the medical community claims were eradicated by vaccinations were already experiencing steep declines *before* the vaxes were introduced. Also, many vax-preventable diseases experienced similar decline rates in countries where routine vaccination was *not* practiced at the same time the diseases were "eradicated by vaxes" in the US.

Here's an article I found with a quick search that specifically addresses the polio issue.

Here are some excerpts from Neil Miller's book, which talks extensively about this aspect of the vax debate.

More

Another polio article
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