Where would you go?

[bygones75]

If vaccination becomes federally mandated in the U.S., where could those who don't vaccinate go?

And I don't mean for this to become a political discussion, by the way. But I
am becoming more and more afraid for our personal health rights here. If vaccination is no longer a matter of choice in this country, we'd leave. But I have no idea where.

Is there any country that one can live and truly be allowed the choice to not vax? I admit total ignorance in this question... just starting my research.

Hubby is a regional pilot, so I know there may be job opportunties for him elsewhere.

Thanks for any input.

[Gitti]

Big pHARMa pretty much is in charge of the industrialized world. You would have to go somewhere in China out into a country site or maybe somewhere in Africa or S. America.

Certainly not Europe. Although they have no vaccine laws in most of Europe, the same forces that have control of the US and Canada come directly out of England and are spreading into the EU countries (the real reasons for the EU).

I think our best bet is to stay and fight and win back the freedoms each one of us deserves. Get ready!

[Marnica]

As far as I know the US is the only country where vaccination is compulsory right now. (meaning they are "required" for school entrance). So I suppose you could go anywhere you wanted.

[Juvysen]

:

[emma1325]

We have our eyes set on New Zealand one day.

[SunshineJ]

Originally Posted by emma1325

We have our eyes set on New Zealand one day.

Ditto this. We'd probably book for Mexico or Canada first just to get an immediate evac from the country, then from there we'd arrange travel to NZ.

[chaoticzenmom]

Originally Posted by Marnica

As far as I know the US is the only country where vaccination is compulsory right now. (meaning they are "required" for school entrance). So I suppose you could go anywhere you wanted.

No, it's mandated in France....which is where we would go. There are very few vaccines mandated though and we'd probably forge some records before we left

[Sileree]

Probably the U.K. since DP is from there.

[EVC]

I guess we'd be off to Ukraine. And I think the reason wouldn't even be mandatory vax per se (because I think that there would always be SOME way around that, legal or otherwise), but if things get to the point in the US where EVERYTHING is being mandated by law (with mandatory vax just a symptom of a larger issue of the complete loss of all freedom of choice in your personal life), then that is just not the way we want to live.

I don't know what the vax laws in Ukraine are or if they even have vax laws, but I did live there long enough to know that you can around ANYTHING if you are determined to do so. I think we'd be OK, and dh would be OVERJOYED to leave the US

[bygones75]

Originally Posted by EVC

I guess we'd be off to Ukraine. And I think the reason wouldn't even be mandatory vax per se (because I think that there would always be SOME way around that, legal or otherwise), but if things get to the point in the US where EVERYTHING is being mandated by law (with mandatory vax just a symptom of a larger issue of the complete loss of all freedom of choice in your personal life), then that is just not the way we want to live.

Yes... I agree. It gives me a stomach ache just to think about.

I shared the responses here with DH, and he agreed that that we should start preliminary planning of a possible move, should certain laws be enacted. While I also see Gitti's point that we need to fight for our personal freedoms... I fear that my children will be punished if I start fighting. This is becoming a very scary world to live in.

[Bestbirths]

I honestly don't know where we would go or what we would do, but we would not ever vax our children, and we would be willing to move or take other measures, such as fight, or just get vaccination papers that said the day we should have vaxed, whatever.

[Yulia_R]

I too have no idea where, but I will leave the country immediately. Hopefully, it will never come to this (at least I don't force this happening).

[13Sandals]

Interesting thread. We are close to the Canadian border, so would flee there in an emergency. Another option would be to hang out in the woods for as long as needed if there was some kind of 'pandemic forced vaxing' for swine flu.

Some of you headed to England should check out what's going on there - I read a few weeks back, maybe a month - that they are trying to hand over health policy to a newly formed and entity separate from parliament that would decide vaccination policy in the UK. Its supposedly staffed with some 'experts' from the pharma industry. Found it - here is the link: http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/05/u...-imminent.html

All in all, I agree with Gitti - we should try to make our government work for us...but, well, problem is, it seems we vaccine-choicers are in the minority in this country and I would certainly leave if I had to.

[medusaatemydog]

I have a plan in effect as of now... i have an alternate plan. In the next ten years i will probably be gone regardless. Living expenses are out of control and you don't have many choices, even off-grid i feel exposed because you tend to stick out... The only education here that is acceptable is the public norm, which is a really dumbed down version of what this government calls truth, the only prob is that where i am going military service is mandatory, but they don't abuse thier soldiers and don't force vax <it's only for a year and mainly weekends and they PAY alot better than here... i would join myself. I would have said the same about american military but i do not trust them... I honestly don't like it here and wish no one any bad... but this country thinks nothing of violating the individual... this is not a free country this is a corporate country and if you are familiar with corp politics.. well you see where it is going... i would rather be poor and happy than live here... i am tired of feeling like i am going to have a ped or a cdc official standing about my head when i wake up #$% with one hand and trying to stick me with the other i'd rather go die on a mountain of bones with my ancestors peacefully no harm no foul and NO MANDATED MEDICINE/VAX

off subject speaking of unlivable in this country am i the only one who can't pay my extremely high electric bills... i barely use electric yet the bills are becoming as big as mortgage payments... are they trying to push us into the streets?

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by EVC

I guess we'd be off to Ukraine. And I think the reason wouldn't even be mandatory vax per se (because I think that there would always be SOME way around that, legal or otherwise), but if things get to the point in the US where EVERYTHING is being mandated by law (with mandatory vax just a symptom of a larger issue of the complete loss of all freedom of choice in your personal life), then that is just not the way we want to live.

I don't know what the vax laws in Ukraine are or if they even have vax laws, but I did live there long enough to know that you can around ANYTHING if you are determined to do so. I think we'd be OK, and dh would be OVERJOYED to leave the US

You know what's crazy (and funny)? People used to say, "What, did I wake up in Russia this morning?" when someone suggested something that would imply restricted freedom. A few decades later we've got people thinking of moving to Kiev, former USSR, in search of freedom. Isn't it ironic... doncha think?

[EVC]

suggested something that would imply restricted freedom. A few decades later we've got people thinking of moving to Kiev, former USSR, in search of freedom. Isn't it ironic... doncha think?

I do think there is more freedom in Russia, Ukraine, etc. It is, however, the freedom born of chaos, sort of an anarchist freedom....Nevertheless this is a MAJOR topic of discussion in our house. Dh finds a lot of irony in this fact as well, and he adamantly believes that the US is the LEAST free country in the world. There have been times as of late that I tended to agree with him.

[sjsbates]

Might I suggest the small Caribbean nation of St. Kitts and Nevis? It's absolutely gorgeous, and I seriously doubt they'd mandate vaxing - for one, their residents can't afford it, and two, there is a notable lack of Westerners .

(The same could probably be said about Grenada, Trinidad and Tobago, and other islands there.)

[anewmama]

I agree with alot of things being said, but I think for anyone who has not lived outside of the US, the US is alot more free than you think. It's debatable on all points, thats for sure. But there is a reason so many people risk life and limb to get to the US. It's pretty dismal to live in many of these countries on the incomes people there are used to, so to have a higher standard of living, you have to have some income or some connection to a more developed countries' job market. That in itself is a kind of freedom. I am not saying we are perfect or don't have some amazingly illogical things (we are one of the few developed countries that has random gay marriage laws, for instance). I just think it's easy to idealize some countries and unless you have actually lived there as a local and by local standards, it's pretty hard to compare 'freedom' from afar. I think I like what Gitti said in some other thread... stay and fight, make this country the free country it needs to be. (Although I am right now fascinated by the concept of a New World Order and what has been happening nationally and globally. It looks bad all around.)

[PaulaJoAnne]

Originally Posted by medusaatemydog

off subject speaking of unlivable in this country am i the only one who can't pay my extremely high electric bills... i barely use electric yet the bills are becoming as big as mortgage payments... are they trying to push us into the streets?

Your not the only one. We are now charged 15 cents per kilowatt
If the carbon tax passes, we will be taxed for the privilage of living as well.
I don't know how we will survive.
But, I guess thats the whole idea....

We would not leave. The logistics are just way to much.
But, we live in Alaska. Its not to hard to fade into the woodwork up here.

[EVC]

I just think it's easy to idealize some countries and unless you have actually lived there as a local and by local standards, it's pretty hard to compare 'freedom' from afar.

Not sure if your post was addressed to me, but in case it was, I will respond. We (dh and I) are speaking from personal experience when we talk about other countries having greater freedom. Dh is a recent immigrant to the US(he's been in the US for three years now)--he lived his entire life in the Soviet Union and then the former Soviet Union. I also lived in the FSU for about 10 years. We both believe there is greater freedom there in many ways--although dh is far more adamant about it than I am. Of course, this is all our OPINION. So take it for what it is. But it has nothing to do with "idealizing" other countries, as we are speaking from our own experiences