Charlotte Mason questions

[greenthumb3]

I read about CM about 4 years ago, liked it and then promptly forgot all about it! After reading another thread here with links to Ambleside Online, it's got me interested again. Very!

So, mainly, I am curious, what is CM in your homes really like?
I read online that many families ease into CM gradually, and luckily we have plenty of time as my oldest is 6 1/2. I imagine it is a little life-changing if one does not regularly study art, poetry, nature study, etc, but I would love to have more of these things in our family life. (Especially nature study with the lovely watercolor journal, I could go for that!)

I am thinking I'd do a modified Year 1 next year when my oldest is 7-turning 8 and slowly introduce more reading together this year, with once a week spent in nature (park) for observation, throwing in some art and poetry, have classical music playing in the background during the day.

I am concerned about the balance of introducing these things to my boys while supporting them in their interests. Part of me is scared they won't want to learn about this stuff. Is that silly?

What did CM look like when your kids were 6 and under? How about during Year 1? How did you transition into the lifestyle? Did you do it more structred (several hours in the morning every day) or are you more relaxed, throwing in things throughout the day/week?

[KathleenSLP]

:

[Janaleigh]

Here are some things that will help you tansition to Charlotte Mason....

1. Read to your children and ask them to tell you back what they heard. You can do this over the summer. They don't even need to know you are doing something different. So you can model this by saying. "I really like the part we read today where....." Most likely your kids will chime in with what they learned/heard. Just don't ask them questions. This has been very successful in our home.

2. Establish a free reading time. Go to the libray and ahve your kids choose books and then choose lots of good books for them too. If you need some ideas-look in the Sonlight catalog. Explain that wveryone will be going to their rooms for 1 hour (start with 1/2 hour if you need to and work up to this). Put a big stack of books on their bed and let them "read." My kids are now 15 and 17 and we still have down time almost every day.

3. Work out a school schedule that includes 15 minutes of focussed time per subject. In the fall (or whenever you start up formal schooling again) let them know that you want their best for 15 minutes. Surprisingly, you can get a lot done in this short amount of time if your kids stay focussed.

4. My boys loved the nature books because they were choosing what to include and discovering facts about their world.

5. For art study, I bought one of the big Sister Wendy Books but you could very easily check something out from the library. I let them choose a picture and then they did 2 things. First they described everything they saw in the picture (verbally) and then they used tracing paper to trace the picture. It was really fun and taught them to look at the details.

Have fun with Charlotte Mason....

[True Blue]

I'm planning on using one of Winterpromise's cores...it is a CM based program...I need something a little more planned out for me with projects, etc than AO.

[AngelBee]

:

[greenthumb3]

Originally Posted by Janaleigh

Here are some things that will help you tansition to Charlotte Mason....

1. Read to your children and ask them to tell you back what they heard. You can do this over the summer. They don't even need to know you are doing something different. So you can model this by saying. "I really like the part we read today where....." Most likely your kids will chime in with what they learned/heard. Just don't ask them questions. This has been very successful in our home.

2. Establish a free reading time. Go to the libray and ahve your kids choose books and then choose lots of good books for them too. If you need some ideas-look in the Sonlight catalog. Explain that wveryone will be going to their rooms for 1 hour (start with 1/2 hour if you need to and work up to this). Put a big stack of books on their bed and let them "read." My kids are now 15 and 17 and we still have down time almost every day.

3. Work out a school schedule that includes 15 minutes of focussed time per subject. In the fall (or whenever you start up formal schooling again) let them know that you want their best for 15 minutes. Surprisingly, you can get a lot done in this short amount of time if your kids stay focussed.

4. My boys loved the nature books because they were choosing what to include and discovering facts about their world.

5. For art study, I bought one of the big Sister Wendy Books but you could very easily check something out from the library. I let them choose a picture and then they did 2 things. First they described everything they saw in the picture (verbally) and then they used tracing paper to trace the picture. It was really fun and taught them to look at the details.

Have fun with Charlotte Mason....

Thanks for the ideas, Janaleigh, and a peek into how you have implemented CM in your family. I liked how you explained the art study and I liked how you explained that you wanted your children's best effort for 15 minutes. That sounds like something I could use, modified to their age in the coming year or so.

Originally Posted by True Blue

I'm planning on using one of Winterpromise's cores...it is a CM based program...I need something a little more planned out for me with projects, etc than AO.

Hi, TrueBlue. I haven't heard of Winterpromise at all. Guess I will mosey on over and check it out.



So, I went to the library this week and "pretended" we are doing CM this week. I chose things I want to introduce to my sons (and that is interesting to me, as well) as if we are going all-out CM (even though I didn't make that commitment in reality). It gave me a chance to "practice" finding good resources and plan without any pressure of having to implement it on a schedule yet, and to see how CM "felt" in our family's day. The library trip was fun!

I picked out a CD with music by J.S. Bach, two children's books about Bach, two excellent children's poetry books and The Children's Book of Virtues, a few great art books (one from Kohl about discovering great artists through doing art mimicking the masters), a couple fun books about puppies (kids are into them lately), and a book on Charlotte Mason for me. I love the library!

So, last night I played Bach before bedtime and my 6 yr old son listened to it for a few minutes as he lay on the bed and I told him, "the man who wrote the music is J.S. Bach, and he had 20 kids!" (True) I also took the time to put another fun CD on with world music playing hymns and a variety of genres, like bluegrass/gospel, etc. It was very neat, in the morning and it really energized me and the kids.

I chose a few stories (short) from the Book of Virtues and read them aloud right before bedtime--the kids really liked that! It was nice to spend that time together.

Today, I pulled out the tennis rackets and balls and took the kids to the one place I can have all three of them out without a stroller: the fenced-in tennis court! They had a blast hitting/throwing the balls over the net, and my oldest did pretty well hitting a few back to me.

I also packed along my watercolor pencils and paper, and sat on a bench to sketch and paint a leaf for my own version of Nature Study. My 4 year old wanted to try one, too, so with his black pencil, he proceeded to draw a Zombie at a Zombie Birthday Party He tried putting water on top of the pencil-on-paper like I showed him with the paintbrush, but then proceeded to dip the pencil in the water and "paint" with it instead! It worked brilliantly, and he was so proud. I did suggest he could draw a leaf or something he could see near us, but he seemed happy with what he was doing, so I didn't push it. I considered that a pretty good first Nature Study for not really doing it "officially".

I think they'll like having their own special notebook to record the things they like. My oldest remarked when we arrived at the park's playground that being there "brought back a lot of memories". (Last time were there was for his basketball team's party...in Feb. Sad, I know) That would be an easy way to explain to him that by drawing a little of what he sees at his park visits, he can carry his memories with him always, even when we are not at the park.

Oh, can't forget the dead baby bird, which the boys were sad about. They found it under a tree and after examining it a little (noting guts), we decided on burial. My son got me a clean doggy bag to put it in (ew moment) and I dug a hole with the shovel we brought for sandplay, and buried it. We each took a turn saying something about the bird and it gave us a chance to talk about what happens when animals and people die (Christian related).

All of this b/c I decided to try a little bit of CM today--great learning opportunities that wouldn't have happened if I hadn't been tuned into taking time and spending it outside with the emphasis on where we were: nature (or the suburbs version of it anyway).

Doing this week as a relaxed, unofficial "trial run" wasn't exactly something I planned on, it just sort of happened, but I like how it's going already. The kids still had a few hours of TV (Netflix) in there and Lego play like usual, but having that focus on nature and exercise made a big difference in how I felt about our day and they didn't get upset or anything about these things I casually threw in, they enjoyed it--that was encouraging!

I look forward to sharing an art activity and artwork as well as a few more poems and stories with the kids in the coming days. It's given me something to do with my children and been an incentive to turn off the TV and be together. It also makes me feel good, like I am not just being with my children, but giving them something to be more of an active part of who they are becoming.

I can really see that in a year, CM will seem like a natural part of our flow and could work well for us as a more focused effort. This year leading up to a more focused CM-inspired study time, we can spend time exploring art (and handicrafts), music, character/scripture stories, and nature time in a relaxed way.

Maybe my little "novel" has inspired someone else? I hope so--anyway, it sure felt nice typing it out and thinking about this week


Anyone else like to comment?
Transitioning to CM?

[rahrahgobg]

Some people do TEA TIME.

15 minutes in the afternoon. Have a snack (tea and biscuits, maybe) - put on some classical music in the background, and look at a piece of art and have your kids tell you what they see. People also go over some manners/actions they want to work on with their kids during this time.

15 minutes per subject until maybe 3rd, 4th grade. I can't remember what the recommendation was. 30 minutes until high school and then 45 for high school.

She wants you to learn about the world, so last year I bought some guide books about trees and flowers - ones that help you identify them. I went in my back yard and tried to identify them. We did this until the leaves fell off and haven't done it since. I plan to start it again when we formally start our school year in a few weeks.

When teaching spelling, she said to put the word on the board, erase it, and have them spell it. If they got it wrong repeat until they get it right. I haven't done this in phonics because part of the process is trying to get him to reiterate what letters he hears in a word. He's only 5. I will do this when there are just spelling words.

My son does have a nature journal. We quit that when it got cold. I'm a wuss. I need to start that up again. People said to buy good drawing pencils for this, because it makes a difference...and it does.

Those are a few tips.

Good luck.

[VanessaS]

We're just pre-K but I'm already incorporating some CM-aspects into our education.

We do Nature Study every week (more often as it suits us), take digital pictures of what is interesting, and maintain a blog about it. As my DC get older I'm hoping to incorporate more nature arts and crafts into it. Then I would take a picture of the results and post those in the blog, as well. We also garden and go to the park/playground almost every day. We're very "outdoorsy".

We read books together and discuss them afterwards (precursor to narration). I usually check 5 short books out from the children's section of the library (4 fiction + 1 nonfiction) and we read them every day in the morning for one week. Sort of FIAR-ish. It sounds repetitive, but they enjoy really getting to know the stories. By the end of the week we practically have them memorized (and sometimes DO have them memorized) and are glad to move on to new ones. We don't do unit-studies but if we've learned about something interesting (this week it's a great book about bees) that topic tends to crop up in everything we do automatically.

In the evenings, DH reads them a chapter from a German book (children's classics).

We do math and copywork on alternate days, 15 minutes each time, but we skip days if we want (he's only 4 yo, after all). For writing, we write letters to friends and relatives or write down the shopping list or the weekly menu. Whatever real-life writing project I can think of, alternating German and English (we're bilingual). Normally we figure out what to write together (to practice phonics), I write it down, then he copies it onto a fresh sheet of paper. If it's a letter he decorates it with crayons. Grandma and Oma love getting these letters!

For math we do Kitchen Table Math or a page in our math workbook. He's learning a lot and advancing very quickly even though the lessons are so short. We also get practice when we do our baking.

Once a week we attend story/craft time at the library and take part in a weekly playgroup. The playgroup also does outings. This Friday we'll be at the zoo. :

I'd like to incorporate a weekly poem selection and daily children's Bible readings next. We're Catholic and he'll be starting Sunday school this fall, so we'll start learning the catechism then. We already do some craft-time (coloring, cut & paste, play dough, or painting -- or all of the above!) everyday so I'm thinking that would be a good time to incorporate some music study. I also like the tea-time idea. That would be a great time for art appreciation.

Phew! When I write it all down it sounds like we do a lot. But most of our day is still spent in free-play, so it's not too much. Actually, I think the kids would probably prefer to do more, not less.

[tankgirl73]

DS is 11 and we only just came to CM a few months ago. So unfortunately I don't have any tales to tell of our experiences with age 6 and under!

We're not doing any particular CM curriculum (like, year whatever with AO), but I've cobbled bits and pieces of the ideas I've gleaned from various sources together, into our own kind of version of the philosophy for my son. We're still in the process of transitioning into a more CM-way of doing some things -- for instance, we're not doing much copywork or dictation yet. We have a grammar book and a cursive handwriting book that he enjoys, so we're going to finish those first (why fix it if it ain't broke), but when those are done we'll do copywork and dictation (at least for awhile) instead of going straight into the next level of those.

But I'm really working on keeping lessons short -- something I'd always kind of thought of, but hadn't been really dedicated to. And we've incorporated more living books, more reading, more narration (mostly oral at this point, even though he's 11, because it's new to him and he's a reluctant writer). I was surprised how much he actually enjoyed the narration from the beginning.

Also we've added casual art study -- I pick an artist every so often, we look at some of their work, casually find out a bit about their life, and do some little kind of art project based on their style. So far we've only done Da Vince and Picasso. He really liked Picasso.

Same for music. Pick a composer and try to keep their stuff in the CD player as much as possible, put some tunes on his MP3 player, and find some books about them. I'm a professional classical musician, so this part is probably easier for me than for more people heh. We've done Mozart and Schoenberg so far.

Nature study -- he's not taken to. I'd like to incorporate nature walks and nature drawing... he loves drawing... but it's not happening. He's an ADHD rock star. He loves nature (wants to be a marine biologist) but not in the *communing with it* sense. Not right now anyway. It's still something I'd like to do more of, but I'm not pushing it right now.

Where possible, we've shifted what curriculum we use to be CM-inspired things. For instance, we're trying History Odyssey. We've been using NOEO Science for a year now (and the way it worked so well for DS is what first turned me on to looking into CM more seriously).

And we`ve instituted Tuesday Teatime, which amazingly he LOVES. We drink iced tea from the good china cups, eat fresh baked cookies, and read poetry to each other while listening to classical music.

Right now, DD is just 2.5 and I`m feeling more Montessori with her right now. I expect, though, that her `primary`years are going to be more CM than DS`s were, even if not completely whole-hog.

[tankgirl73]

We do Nature Study every week (more often as it suits us), take digital pictures of what is interesting, and maintain a blog about it.

You posted while I was writing my post and I had to jump in at this.

What a great idea! I mentioned that DS is not keen on the whole nature journal thing. BUT he loves taking pictures, and we got him a nice digital camera (a real one, not a `kids`one) for his birthday. We could combine the nature journal, ironically enough, with a tech literacy component -- have him take digital pictures, upload them to the computer, insert them in a document and type and format descriptive text about his picture!

Also, I agree with you that when we write it up, it sounds like soooooooo much but it really doesn`t take very much time from the day. That`s one of the things I love about it. I can really look back over a month and see how much we`ve done, but it doesn`t seem like THAT much at the time!

[VanessaS]

Originally Posted by tankgirl73

Also we've added casual art study -- I pick an artist every so often, we look at some of their work, casually find out a bit about their life, and do some little kind of art project based on their style. So far we've only done Da Vince and Picasso. He really liked Picasso.

You wrote while I was writing!

I really like your art idea. Very WTM. I like it!

I forgot to mention that we've been looking into Spelling Wisdom for some nice dictation excerpts.

[tankgirl73]

LOL back and forth.

I just came back to this thread because I realized I'd forgotten handicrafts! Something I had utterly neglected with DS up until now. We've done a string art project, working now on a paper airplane launcher, plus we've got a couple robotics kind of kits he's gotten for christmas... making this "officially" part of his "schoolwork" means we'll finally actually put these things together.

And I've just read some interesting ideas on knotwork for crafts for boys which I think he'll enjoy. He likes whittling with his jackknife, we'll probably do some of that too.

Another quasi-art, quasi-writing skills thing we're doing is using DD's Montessori metal insets with DS. His handwriting is HORRENDOUS, and these are designed to practice and promote good gestures and motions, etc. So we use them to do little geometric art projects which he then colours in. I don't know how CM it is, but it fits the little-tasks-at-a-time idea.

CM is helping me remember that it's not JUST about the academics... readin, writing, rithmatic. I KNOW that, of course, but it's easy to get into a rut and just assume that these other things will just happen naturally. Of course, often they do... but often they don't. Making things like art and music and fun things like games with mom and exercise and playing outside officially PART of his 'school' keeps those things on more of a level playing field of importance in my mind.

[greenthumb3]

Originally Posted by tankgirl73

CM is helping me remember that it's not JUST about the academics... readin, writing, rithmatic. I KNOW that, of course, but it's easy to get into a rut and just assume that these other things will just happen naturally. Of course, often they do... but often they don't. Making things like art and music and fun things like games with mom and exercise and playing outside officially PART of his 'school' keeps those things on more of a level playing field of importance in my mind.

I am so glad you wrote this...a good reminder that handicrafts and skills are just as important in so many ways. I need to remember this!

Originally Posted by tankgirl73

Also, I agree with you that when we write it up, it sounds like soooooooo much but it really doesn`t take very much time from the day. That`s one of the things I love about it. I can really look back over a month and see how much we`ve done, but it doesn`t seem like THAT much at the time!

I love that, too (well, in theory, I suppose as we haven't transitioned yet ).
Sometimes I am in awe of how much a child can learn in just 20 minutes a day over a period of time. Makes me wish I could have done this as a child fully! It would have been like having someone hand me years of my life back from public school!!

Originally Posted by tankgirl73

DS is 11 and we only just came to CM a few months ago. So unfortunately I don't have any tales to tell of our experiences with age 6 and under!

We're not doing any particular CM curriculum (like, year whatever with AO), but I've cobbled bits and pieces of the ideas I've gleaned from various sources together, into our own kind of version of the philosophy for my son. We're still in the process of transitioning into a more CM-way of doing some things --

But I'm really working on keeping lessons short -- something I'd always kind of thought of, but hadn't been really dedicated to. And we've incorporated more living books, more reading, more narration (mostly oral at this point, even though he's 11, because it's new to him and he's a reluctant writer). I was surprised how much he actually enjoyed the narration from the beginning.

Also we've added casual art study -- I pick an artist every so often, we look at some of their work, casually find out a bit about their life, and do some little kind of art project based on their style.

Same for music. Pick a composer and try to keep their stuff in the CD player as much as possible, put some tunes on his MP3 player, and find some books about them. I'm a professional classical musician, so this part is probably easier for me than for more people heh. We've done Mozart and Schoenberg so far.

Nature study -- he's not taken to. I'd like to incorporate nature walks and nature drawing... he loves drawing... but it's not happening. He's an ADHD rock star. He loves nature (wants to be a marine biologist) but not in the *communing with it* sense. Not right now anyway. It's still something I'd like to do more of, but I'm not pushing it right now.

Where possible, we've shifted what curriculum we use to be CM-inspired things. For instance, we're trying History Odyssey. We've been using NOEO Science for a year now (and the way it worked so well for DS is what first turned me on to looking into CM more seriously).

And we`ve instituted Tuesday Teatime, which amazingly he LOVES. We drink iced tea from the good china cups, eat fresh baked cookies, and read poetry to each other while listening to classical music.

Right now, DD is just 2.5 and I`m feeling more Montessori with her right now. I expect, though, that her `primary`years are going to be more CM than DS`s were, even if not completely whole-hog.

I am glad you wrote anyway, I suppose anyone else who hasn't BTDT with under 6s, step right up! This post is so helpful to get insights from.

I do wonder after this year goes by if I really will stick with AO or like you, cobble some things together. I am more of a cobbledy kind of person anyhow . But maybe I will use some of AO when we begin if I need the direction? Eh, we'll see.

So, maybe not artists study everyday, but every so often? I was wondering if everyone studies everything the same time every day, which seems rather artificial to me (but, hey, if it works for some kids ). Interesting to note you have done the every-so-often approach and works for you. Tucking that away for later....

Music: I have played violin off and on from age 6 to high school. I actually prefer old time fiddling myself...wonder if Charlotte Mason would roll in her grave of THAT is what I focused on?

History: I have Story of the World, which is kind of dry on CD (not as exciting as I thought it would be), but the stories have been short so far and if I did an activity that the boys would enjoy with it during that 15-20 minutes, maybe it would work for us. I'd include a book or two about the era we'd study, too. I don't know if that jives with CM?

Yay, Tea time! That is cool your son goes for that! I have actually been drawn to how many other countries have an actual tea time, which is usually informal but time for a mid-afternoon break, compared to our Americanized one, known as the coffee break (which is hasty with a donut thrown in). How perfect that it could be a natural part of the day to slow down and enjoy a cup and a muffin and music. Great ideas! I don't know if I could do it everyday, but at least twice a week would be fun. Tuesday Tea, great idea.

Originally Posted by VanessaS

We're just pre-K but I'm already incorporating some CM-aspects into our education.

We do Nature Study every week (more often as it suits us), take digital pictures of what is interesting, and maintain a blog about it. As my DC get older I'm hoping to incorporate more nature arts and crafts into it. Then I would take a picture of the results and post those in the blog, as well. We also garden and go to the park/playground almost every day. We're very "outdoorsy".

We read books together and discuss them afterwards (precursor to narration).

In the evenings, DH reads them a chapter from a German book (children's classics).

We do math and copywork on alternate days, 15 minutes each time, but we skip days if we want (he's only 4 yo, after all). For writing, we write letters to friends and relatives or write down the shopping list or the weekly menu. Whatever real-life writing project I can think of, alternating German and English (we're bilingual). Normally we figure out what to write together (to practice phonics), I write it down, then he copies it onto a fresh sheet of paper. If it's a letter he decorates it with crayons. Grandma and Oma love getting these letters!

For math we do Kitchen Table Math or a page in our math workbook. He's learning a lot and advancing very quickly even though the lessons are so short. We also get practice when we do our baking.

Once a week we attend story/craft time at the library and take part in a weekly playgroup. The playgroup also does outings. This Friday we'll be at the zoo. :

I'd like to incorporate a weekly poem selection and daily children's Bible readings next. We're Catholic and he'll be starting Sunday school this fall, so we'll start learning the catechism then. We already do some craft-time (coloring, cut & paste, play dough, or painting -- or all of the above!) everyday so I'm thinking that would be a good time to incorporate some music study. I also like the tea-time idea. That would be a great time for art appreciation.

Phew! When I write it all down it sounds like we do a lot. But most of our day is still spent in free-play, so it's not too much. Actually, I think the kids would probably prefer to do more, not less.

So, nature study once a week? Hm, that sounds doable. I forgot that we don't have to actually go somewhere to have some nature study time. I have sunflowers growing in my backyard and birds that visit--that is something I could do more often, even if the kids are looking at somethin for .5 seconds and then jump on the tramp for the rest of the time .

I'm curious, what kind of baking do you do?

Originally Posted by rahrahgobg

Some people do TEA TIME.

15 minutes in the afternoon. Have a snack (tea and biscuits, maybe) - put on some classical music in the background, and look at a piece of art and have your kids tell you what they see. People also go over some manners/actions they want to work on with their kids during this time.

15 minutes per subject until maybe 3rd, 4th grade. I can't remember what the recommendation was. 30 minutes until high school and then 45 for high school.

She wants you to learn about the world, so last year I bought some guide books about trees and flowers - ones that help you identify them. I went in my back yard and tried to identify them. We did this until the leaves fell off and haven't done it since. I plan to start it again when we formally start our school year in a few weeks.

When teaching spelling, she said to put the word on the board, erase it, and have them spell it. If they got it wrong repeat until they get it right. I haven't done this in phonics because part of the process is trying to get him to reiterate what letters he hears in a word. He's only 5. I will do this when there are just spelling words.

My son does have a nature journal. We quit that when it got cold. I'm a wuss. I need to start that up again. People said to buy good drawing pencils for this, because it makes a difference...and it does.

Those are a few tips.

Good luck.

Thanks

Those tips are T riffic. Listing it out this way makes having CM part of the day sound so doable and you get so much out of such focused time together. Cool.

[kakies]

subbing

[Needle in the Hay]

Nice thread! I am a bit Charlotte Mason and AO inspired so I read this thread last time around and we have been doing weekly tea time for a few weeks now. DS loves it, it gets us baking something together at least once a week and to my surprise DS will ask, when I've finished reading a poem, "So have you got another one?" I didn't think he would enjoy them so much.

[elizawill]

Originally Posted by True Blue

I'm planning on using one of Winterpromise's cores...it is a CM based program...I need something a little more planned out for me with projects, etc than AO.

oh, please keep me posted! PM me!! seriously! this curriculum "appears" very good, but it's too expensive for me....(well, too expensive if it's a bad choice, ykwim?). i'd love to to read your review after using it!!!

[mangopassion]

We are eclectic with a CM twist.

I hope to incorporate tea time in the next few weeks. It sounds like a great way to reconnect during the day.

[midwestmom]

subbing.....

We have decided to use Winter Promise this year too with my oldest 2 kids (ages 5 and 6). I will let you guys know how it goes. I got the guides from WP but pieced the rest together to save money.

[elizawill]

Originally Posted by mangopassion

We are eclectic with a CM twist.

I hope to incorporate tea time in the next few weeks. It sounds like a great way to reconnect during the day.

my daughter seriously has tea at least once aday. she has her own adult sized china, including teapot, cups & saucers, creamer & sugar. her favorite tea is english breakfast my son just likes dumping milk and sugar in his cup, but rarely takes a sip, lol. it's super cute & a very special time for her.



midwestmom, i'd love it if you posted an update with a WP review!! thank you!!!!

[zebrachick83]

: