Blow up at grandparents house (sort of x-posted from Toddlers)

[Pumpkin_Pie]

Last Sunday (Father's Day), I stopped at my father's house with DS to visit and drop off a gift that DS had made for his Papa. We had just come back from a weekend of camping that involved a steep learning curve for me as a single mama and a half day visit to the local ER for DS. I was exhausted.

We arrived at their house about an hour before they got home from a shopping trip. When my father and stepmother got home, their Chihuahua started barking and jumping around like he usually does. DS was ecstatic to see Papa and very excited about the dog too. He ended up hitting the dog and the dog lunged at him but didn't actually bite.

The near misses with biting DS has gone on since DS was a newborn. I cannot stand the dog and am terrified for my son's safety. At first my stepmother said DS's cries hurt her dog's ears, then she said the dog saw my son as a toy to drag around and play with, and on Sunday, she finally said, "If you hit the Chuck (dog), he will bite you and you will deserve it!"

I was livid. I said, "He is two." thinking that would be enough, but my stepmother said that he is old enough to know how to respect animals and getting bitten is how he will learn.

I scooped him up, said something totally inappropriate to SM and walked out. I dropped DS's gift on the table and yelled a few more inappropriate things and drove away shaking.

Later that day, I sent an email to my dad saying that I didn't think it was safe to have my son around Chuck any more and that I very much wanted him to be able to visit. I offered to meet up with him at a park, at the mall, or wherever he wanted to. I also placed most of the blame on my son, saying that DS was just too young to have enough impulse control to be trusted around the dog and we would be able to visit in their home eventually, but not at 2 years old.

I still haven't heard back, and DS is begging to see Papa. It isn't his fault, and I so want to get them together. He absolutely adores his grandfather, and he has no other male relatives in his life. I am tempted to call, but really don't want to talk to my stepmother. I feel like if I email, it will just be ignored again.

Sorry this turned out so long, I just feel so sad for my son.

[limabean]

Does your dad normally check his e-mail regularly? Are you sure he's ignoring you, or could he have just not gotten the message? You might try just forwarding the same e-mail to him with a quick "My computer was acting funny for a while, so I'm just making sure this got to you okay" note at the top.

Or, does he have a cell phone so you can call him without having to speak to your stepmom? Or can you call him at work?

I'm sorry you had such an upsetting day -- I would have been angry too.

[Pumpkin_Pie]

He checks his email several times a day normally, so I am pretty positive that he would have received it by now. I might send another though, just in case. Tonight DS found his toy cell phone and was having a very long involved conversation with Papa. It broke my heart listening to him. He misses him so much, and we hadn't seen him in about a month prior to Father's Day.

He also does have a cell, but he very rarely answers it. I have tried sending him text messages, but he never seems to get them. I don't think he even knows how to open one up.

[amandaleigh37]

Sounds like you handled it fine... It's obvious that the dog and your child can't be together safely. Which isn't necessarily anyone's fault: one is an animal and one is a toddler It happens. Sounds like a good solution is meeting somewhere else or having your father come visit at your house. Of course they could offer to put the dog somewhere else when you visit (another room or outside?) but it doesn't sound like your stepmom would be up for that.

[peainthepod]

I'm so sorry, mama. I know it must hurt that your father would (possibly) choose his wife's refusal to restrain or control her dog over a visit with his grandson. Please keep in mind that he is making the choice not to see your child, if it does come down to that. It's not your fault and you have every right to protect your little one from danger.

[spicyrock]

I see a post very much like yours in my future... my mil has a little dachsund who is very possessive of her, and acts aggressively toward my (five month old) daughter. Mil refuses to accept this, and makes excuses for her dog's unacceptable behavior all the time. She even insists that the dog actually "loves" dd and always comes up with some alternate reason for the dog's growling and other antics. It seriously freaks me out; I am afraid to leave dd anywhere in their home and turn my back, even for a minute. Thankfully, the dog is little, and one day it won't be as much of an issue... sigh. Old ladies and their territorial little dogs...

Anyway, I just wanted to send you hugs. Of course you are entitled to keep your ds safe, and it sounds like your frustration has been (understandably!) building for a while, so it probably needed to come out. I'm sorry your stepmom doesn't get it... some people are just thickheaded about their pets.

And I say this as a dog-lover, with a big scruffy dog of my own. No matter how much I love and trust d-dog, he is only around dd in very controlled, contained situations.

[NiteNicole]

My grandmother had a crazy little chi mix that hated kids. When we visited, I called first and she put the dog in her room. Worked for everyone.

[pauletoy]

Is it possible your Dad is angry about the "inappropriate" things you said to his wife and not about your ds not being around the dog?

My little ones are terrified of my mother's lab, so we don't visit her house. The handful of times we have been there the dog was put in his kennel before we entered the house.

Hope you hear from your dad soon.

[Aubergine68]

Oh, Kim, I'm sorry you had a rough trip with your little guy. Hope he is ok! You must really have been looking forward to a relaxed visit with your dad and stepmom. I am sorry it didn't happen.

Your post seems to have two issues -- first the issue of your son around the dog. You have *every right* to ask for limits here. I totally agree that the situation sounds inappropriate and I don't believe that toddlers should be allowed free rein with dogs at all. I know a little guy with a permanent scar on his cheek and a permanent fear of animals from a dog bite.

Second, is the issue of your comments to your stepmom that you describe as "inappropriate." I don't think you were at all wrong to disagree with her or even wrong to leave when you did, but I think you honestly need to think about whether you need to apologize to her for how you said what you said.

If your son were in this situation as an adult, what advice would you give him?

I'm speaking as someone who grew up with a stepmother who really didn't like me very much (to put it mildly), so I have an idea of how hard apologizing would be.

I'm also speaking as someone who lost her dad 10 years ago and sometimes daydreams about what it would have been like if her sons could have known their grandpa. I therefore tend to romanticize grandfather-grandson relationships, so please forgive me if my suggestion is out of line. But it sounds like you really value the relationship between your son and your father and I think that may be worth - not `fighting' for but `making peace' for.

[teale]

Originally Posted by NiteNicole

My grandmother had a crazy little chi mix that hated kids. When we visited, I called first and she put the dog in her room. Worked for everyone.

Yeah, my inlaws have a nasty, territorial, moody yorkie. DH had to tell them to put him his crate during our visits when DS started to be mobile. I'm sure, given the chance, the dog would take a vicious swing at DS, just because.

I think you did the right thing, but you may owe your SM an apology for the "inappropriate" things.

On topic, but man, it grates me to no end when pet owners don't realize that they have to accept responsibility for their aggressive dogs. Kids can be taught, but a two year old just sees a dog, not a predator.

[TinkerBelle]

I don't know what you said, but IMHO, your SM was wrong. Yes, small children need to learn not to bother animals, but your son is way young to totally "get" that lesson at this time. It is a process.

Now, if he were older and smacked the dog, and the dog bit, I could see her point.

If your father refuses to have contact because of his wife, and hurts your son in the process, then he isn't much of a man or grandpa.

[BroodyWoodsgal]

Yeah, it sucks that you said something innapropriate....but after the weekend you'd just had and the fact that this has been an ongoing problem, I don't blame you for exploding, honey. It sounds like you were more than a little stressed and completely exhausted!

I have a couple of small dogs...they are not in any way vicious and have a great, very close, relationship with my DD....but they have been playing and snuggling, etc since she was a NB...so, she is not as exciting to them, they don't jump on her, etc. However, when they meet new children or see "friends" that they don't get to see very often....it's a diffierent story. They get SOOOO happy and excited and try to jump up and lick their faces...**I** know that it's them being sweet and silly and happy to see a child, because they love children....but the parents and children being jumped on DON'T know my doggies like I do and I take it very seriously. I don't want a kid to develop a fear of dogs, because people (me included) allowed their dogs to jump all over them and overwhelm them before they were old enough to handle it properly and I don't want a parent to mistake my dogs happiness for anything else and become frightened for their child, you know? Yeah...the dog seems little and harmless to us grown folk....but when you only stand 2.5 feet off the ground....it looks a lot different.

It is the resonsibility of the owner of the dog to either a) control/train their animal to behave appropriately when around littles, or b) restrain/crate the animal when children are visiting. The other reason it makes me angry when people don't do this...is because I am an animal lover....a dog who is striking out viciously at a young child...is feeling threatened and insecure....an owner who ignores this, is not being loving to the creature they have been charged with caring for. They are letting down their doggie and that's not cool with me.

SO....in this case, I'd send another email to Papa and explain that after thinking about this you feel really badly for snapping at SM like that and that you would like to come by to apologize and talk about how to make sure this is not a problem in the future. Explain that your heart is breaking because your DS won't stop talking about him and begging to go see him and that you didn't mean for things to go so wrong, that you are just so frustrated with the doggie situation, because you know that your son is WAY too little to be held responsible for "knowing" how to be around a dog and that a dog can't be held responsible because, well, that's just ridiculous.

This woman, your SM.....should be in complete control of her animals behavior when it comes to situations involving small children. If she is not, the animal must be kept somewhere else while the child visits, not ONLY to protect the child from harm/fear, but also to protect the animal from harm/fear and to keep from reinforcing that the behavior is okay. Every time this dog is allowed to behave this way, she is sending the message to this poor creature, that s/he is doing a "good job" protecting the house and his masters....because that's what this dog thinks it's doing. It thinks, because it is feeling anxious, that something is amiss and that it has to defend it's space. That's not fair to anyone.

I really despise people who think that owning a small dog is somehow different than owning a large or "regular" sized dog. Yes, it is easier to carry/pamper a small dog and it can be easier to feel as if this creature is more a human/child than a larger dog....but emotionally/mentally, a small dog has the same needs and people who treat these animals like huimans, and who give human excuses for their poor behavior, are doing nothing but making these dogs MORE neurotic.

Anyway..../rant. Sorry for hte novel!

[spicyrock]

Originally Posted by AverysMomma

It is the resonsibility of the owner of the dog to either a) control/train their animal to behave appropriately when around littles, or b) restrain/crate the animal when children are visiting. The other reason it makes me angry when people don't do this...is because I am an animal lover....a dog who is striking out viciously at a young child...is feeling threatened and insecure....an owner who ignores this, is not being loving to the creature they have been charged with caring for. They are letting down their doggie and that's not cool with me.


I really despise people who think that owning a small dog is somehow different than owning a large or "regular" sized dog. Yes, it is easier to carry/pamper a small dog and it can be easier to feel as if this creature is more a human/child than a larger dog....but emotionally/mentally, a small dog has the same needs and people who treat these animals like huimans, and who give human excuses for their poor behavior, are doing nothing but making these dogs MORE neurotic.

dp and I have tried to explain the above to mil kindly a few times, and while I was pregnant (when we spent more time there) we'd try to teach the dog games and boundaries. I thought if we could just explain to her how uncomfortable the dog's anxiety is -to the dog- she might change her ways. But no. She loves that he is so possessive of her; she smiles and laughs about it, says it's just because he loves her sooo much, and he's just her little baby now that her boys have grown up and left her all alone. With her husband and dog. arg....

[BroodyWoodsgal]

Originally Posted by spicyrock

dp and I have tried to explain the above to mil kindly a few times, and while I was pregnant (when we spent more time there) we'd try to teach the dog games and boundaries. I thought if we could just explain to her how uncomfortable the dog's anxiety is -to the dog- she might change her ways. But no. She loves that he is so possessive of her; she smiles and laughs about it, says it's just because he loves her sooo much, and he's just her little baby now that her boys have grown up and left her all alone. With her husband and dog. arg....

Oh maaaaan! GOD that drives me up a wall!!

"Oh he loves me!" or "no no, he gets that way because he's worried about me, he loves me and gets jealous!" I just want to scream at these people!! THey are DOOOOOGS, NOT HUUUUMANNNNS! They don't even LOOK like humans...a lot of the time, these animals are MISERABLE...high strung, stressed out creatures who think it is their duty to protect, who are constatnly on "high alert" and can't enjoy themselves or relax, EVER, because their human encourages this lifestyle. It's not cute, it's not funny. It's dog torture. THat's what it is. These dogs are not happy creatures, they are not living well.....and a lot of these people, who raise animals to be insane, will tell you they love their poches more than anything on this earth...if they only knew how upset and anxious they kept their doggies....

Why do people INSIST upon stuffing human emotion/thought process/etc into these poor dogs...they are DOGS. ::

Sorry....personal "pet" peeve...no pun intended!

[choli]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_Pie

I scooped him up, said something totally inappropriate to SM and walked out. I dropped DS's gift on the table and yelled a few more inappropriate things and drove away shaking.

I'd call SM and apologize for the yelling inappropriate things and to your father for storming out on Father's Day like that. That was out of line, whatever your disagreements with your SM over the dog and the kid.

[sapientia]

Originally Posted by AverysMomma

Oh maaaaan! GOD that drives me up a wall!!

"Oh he loves me!" or "no no, he gets that way because he's worried about me, he loves me and gets jealous!" I just want to scream at these people!! THey are DOOOOOGS, NOT HUUUUMANNNNS! They don't even LOOK like humans...a lot of the time, these animals are MISERABLE...high strung, stressed out creatures who think it is their duty to protect, who are constatnly on "high alert" and can't enjoy themselves or relax, EVER, because their human encourages this lifestyle. It's not cute, it's not funny. It's dog torture. THat's what it is. These dogs are not happy creatures, they are not living well.....and a lot of these people, who raise animals to be insane, will tell you they love their poches more than anything on this earth...if they only knew how upset and anxious they kept their doggies....

Why do people INSIST upon stuffing human emotion/thought process/etc into these poor dogs...they are DOGS. ::

Sorry....personal "pet" peeve...no pun intended!

Yes yes yes! My mom has two enormous dogs and she honestly treats them better than her own grandchildren-she thinks its cute that they LOOOOVEEE her sooo much that they act aggressive towards me and my kids.
I hate it, and I don't go there hardly at all, and I don't take my kids very often-if I do I ask for them to be put out or put in her room and it annoys her. By her own admittance her animals come first. It makes me furious. She is the same way with her gazillion spoiled cats. She can't be bothered to spend a penny on her grandkids but by golly she spends all she's got on the animals. yeah, it's an issue with me.
grrrrrrr

[1littlebit]

ok seriously i so understand. i am sorry your dad and SM handled the situation so poorly.

for the past like 7 yrs the biggest cause of tension, fights, anger etc between everyone on my dads side of the family was my aunts flipping poodle. it was weirdly possessive of her and growled and tried to bite everyone who got near her. it slept in her bed between her and my uncle, she made it's meals every day.. like regular people food meals and she just loved the dog so much which is fine except that it growled and snapped at everyone who came within 5 ft of her.

the thing bit everyone (including her kids!) and she not only refused to lock it up when she wanted to have get togethers at her house she also brought it with her to events at the houses of other members of the family. my dad put his foot down and said it wasn't ever allowed in our house. so did my other aunt. but she brought the thing to my grand parents house every holiday... it bit my brother, my uncle, and i think a few other people. she growled at everyone, stole food off people plates etc..

after it bit my uncle him and my aunt said that from now on it was them and my cousins or the dog...either she left the dog at home on holidays or they wouldn't come. it was a huge deal.. and it was ridiculous. it would have been catastrophic if we had had any small children. after DS was born my parents told her that if she ever wanted us to come over she had to put the dog outside and keep her there. my aunt (and i love her dearly... she's a wonderful person but weird about the dog) baby sat for me once and i didn't want to have her baby sit at her house b/c i think she would have trusted the dog way more then deserved.. i was worried she would bite ds. everyone agreed thank god... and she came to out apt.

the dog has recently died which of course for her was very sad. the tension that was there about the whole thing is gone now. but for years we had all this tension and anger b/c she wanted to bring her dog everywhere and the dog was just plain mean. it was a standard poodle btw... so it was big too.

[oceanbaby]

Originally Posted by AverysMomma

Oh maaaaan! GOD that drives me up a wall!!

"Oh he loves me!" or "no no, he gets that way because he's worried about me, he loves me and gets jealous!" I just want to scream at these people!! THey are DOOOOOGS, NOT HUUUUMANNNNS! They don't even LOOK like humans...a lot of the time, these animals are MISERABLE...high strung, stressed out creatures who think it is their duty to protect, who are constatnly on "high alert" and can't enjoy themselves or relax, EVER, because their human encourages this lifestyle. It's not cute, it's not funny. It's dog torture. THat's what it is. These dogs are not happy creatures, they are not living well.....and a lot of these people, who raise animals to be insane, will tell you they love their poches more than anything on this earth...if they only knew how upset and anxious they kept their doggies....

Why do people INSIST upon stuffing human emotion/thought process/etc into these poor dogs...they are DOGS. ::

Sorry....personal "pet" peeve...no pun intended!

I feel exactly the same way you do. And this is why my best friend is no longer allowed to bring her little dog over. She has made that dog neurotic by treating him like a spoiled little child, and she basically did nothing after he bit my 4yo other than offer up a weak apology and talk about how my kids are just too noisy for him.

OP: I guess it depends on what the inappropriate things were that you said to your SM. If it was really bad, then you're probably going to have to make the first move and apologize. Once you get that taken care of, I think it's entirely appropriate to discuss ways to keep the dog and your kid separate.

[Bluegoat]

Yeah, dogs and kids do not always mix. Not because they are bad, but because they are dogs and kids. Small dogs can sometimes be worse, I think they are more likely to feel threatened or to have memories of really being hurt by small kids. It's really only fair to separate them when they can't be together.

I don't have much sympathy for older kids who get bit when tormenting a dog, but it's likely to turn out badly for the dog, so I would try to avoid that too.

What does your dad think of the dog issue? Your MIL clearly doesn't get it.

I think you will have to apologize to your dad for blowing up on Father's day and upsetting your MIL. And he does have to live with her, so if she's mad he is likely suffering. Try to work out an arrangement with him, like meeting elsewhere, or coming to you.

I did know a family where the dog was nervous of kids, so when they came to visit, they brought it a treat like a kong with food in it, and he went to his room to relax and enjoy the treat while they visited.

[phathui5]

I think you overreacted, which makes sense, since you were tired and stressed out. But if you want to have a relationship with your father, you owe him and your stepmother an apology.