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6 mo. died after CIO episode - Page 3

post #41 of 108
Were they even investigated?

Doubt it. The article didn't mention anything about it and six months later they adopted a baby.
post #42 of 108
Quote:
Originally posted by hunnybumm


I also can't see calling the parents these terrible horrible people. They thought what they were doing was best, even if it was wrong. It isn't like they knew they were going to hurt him. It's mainstream to CIO so they probably just had no clue.

JMHO though. [/B]
I don't buy that at all. I know a mom who spanks her 11 month old (take off her diaper and lays her over her knee to do it)
She also thinks she is doing the best.
Any person who doesn't see the dangers of letting a baby cio to sleep like that has no business having a baby.
post #43 of 108
Good Lord. I can't believe so many of you are blaming a parent for this tragedy. I hate cio too, but what I've read here is distrubing. Must be nice, being perfec.t
post #44 of 108
So, if a stranger walked into your home tonight and took the life of your child, would you not blame them for their mistake because no one's perfect? IF a mom suffering with PPD drowns her five kids is she not to blame for her "mistake"? If my oldest daughter strikes out at my infant in a jealous rage, should I turn my cheek at the violence? How can you NOT blame the parents? They let their child cry itself to DEATH! What is ok about that? Why should we console them? Can you imagine how cold and heartless a parent would have to be to listen to their child's desperate cries for hours on end and not respond to them? These people to not deserve tender wishes. They deserve criminal charges and jail time.
post #45 of 108
What happened to that baby is horrible, but it is wrong to assume that the parents loved that child any less than any of us love our own children. I disagree with a lot of mainstream parenting practices, and I do think that some of the more extremem ones (such as spanking) are abusive, but I do not for one second think that parents who do these things love their children less than I do.

If parents whose misguided actions lead their children to harm are to be "punished," how will this help others - or even the parents themselves? Why not educate these people about the dangers of certain things and have them travel to hospital maternity wards and schools and daycares and teach other parents how to keep their children safe and secure?
post #46 of 108
OMG how terribly sad. Everybody cuddle those babies and keep them close.

Meg
post #47 of 108
I know all of this happened years ago but I want to add my 2 cents...

the parents likely suffered a lot. the people who need to be punished are the so-called experts who ignore scientific evidence and push parents to do CIO and other forms of de-tachment parenting. I also think the people who do parenting techniques like cio and spanking (and shaming etc etc) think they are doing what is best for their kids (especially regarding the idea that we need to force them into independence so they can get along in society). if we (we being society I guess) approach these incidents on a one by one basis, punishing the parents, then it will continue forever. if the people who advocate this stuff are held accountable and debunked, then it might stop.

Oh yeah, and those of us who know better gotta keep on talking about it and sharing what we know!
post #48 of 108
I disagree, i don't think those parents love their children the same as I love my children. Just reading this thread, and telling my husband about it, i started to CRY. How could they let their baby cry for so long? How could they? Could you listen to your spouse sob for comfort in another room without going in to comfort them? I don't think so. I think parents are so eager to have their life "back to normal" that they forget to love their babies with the intensity that is natural and normal.

I feel sorry for the other children in that household. I know how much my older children love my newest baby and I can't even imagine how horrible that would be for them.

And to the other poster, it isn't about being perfect. I am FAR from perfect. I yell at my older kids when I'm frustrated with them. I don't always make them do their chores because I am lazy, etc. But no matter what, I love my children every minute of the day and if they are in pain, physical or emotional i ALWAYS stop and comfort them. Middle of the night, cooking dinner, whenever.
post #49 of 108
I guess part of what i was trying to get at is that I don't think it's useful to demonize the parents. Ok, ok, I admit it, I don't like them, don't want to meet them, think it stinks that they got to adopt with no questions asked. It stinks that that article basically ignored that the parenting choices they made were responsible for theit child's death and did not dscuss that at all.

BUT!

I would really like it if this CIO crap became very very outdated. Frowned upon. considered child abuse by the mainstream, not just those of us out here on the parenting fringe. and a major step in that direction is to hold the people who validate these types of parenting techniques accountable for the results.

the other thing too is that I really want to move towards compassion as a strong value. I think compassion is not much valued by our society and it's a huge problem. (really, if compassion was a strong value no one would CIO!) and to me that includes compassion for people who have made terrible terrible mistakes.

and who knows how much anyone loves their children. there's no measuring mechanism I'm aware of.
post #50 of 108
Quote:
Originally posted by Amywillo
The next time she says that your hubby should say something like "I think that sort of thing goes on in nursing homes too, so you'll get your chance."
Amy, you rock... you should totally say that to your evil MIL!
post #51 of 108
I don't recall any of the moms here claiming to be perfect... just not abusive.

I do think CIO is abusive. Being a parent involves comforting your children and helping them feel safe in a big scary world. A six month old doesn't understand that they are supposed to sleep all night by themselves and leaving them screaming and crying all alone in a dark room isn't teaching them anything. He was just a tiny baby alone and scared. How anybody could leave him is beyond me.

But I don't think the parents should have went to jail. 15 years ago, this was the advice given out by dr.s and friends and this hasn't changed!!!! I wish the article had talked about the dangers of CIO. I wish the parents had become non-CIO advocates.
post #52 of 108
Well one certainly comes across as thinking oneself perfect when one is so self-righteous and judgmental of other parents, particularly in such tragic circumstances. Expressing nothing but blame and contempt for parents who suffered such a horrible loss and likely stifling guilt is a special low. Don't you think that the parents already feel lower than low? Don't you think they loved their child? Do you think that maybe, just maybe, she was just exhausted with her other children, sleep-deprived, and maybe didn't realize that it was a matter of life or death? Isn't there thread after thread here about sleeping problems and even several where women admit they've thought of letting their child cry it out? How would she have known this was going to happen?? It's so easy to wag our fingers with hindsight, a different baby, different life. I find it upsetting to find this kind of shoulda-known-better attitude HERE of all places, because it's the same attitude that you will hear if, god forbid, something tragic should happen to your child ever. Let's save our vitriole for the moronic experts and doctors who spew this parenting philosophy crap and not blame the parents/victims.
Not everyone has the same parenting philosophies. I would think at boards titled MOTHERING there would not be so much mother blaming and bashing, even when their parenting practices do differ so drastically from one's own. I am adamently against crying it out, but I know some great parents who do it. I don't get it, I don't approve of it, but I would never dream of asserting that they don't deserve their children. I don't think it's on par with smoking crack. Do you even know if this death was connected to crying it out? Do you even have any compassion, as a fellow mother, for this woman? at all? Don't you think she feels this loss, believe it or not, MORE than you??
I've had to defend my no-cio and other ap parenting practices many many times, and I'm sick of it, and I hate the judgment. Honestly, I think I'm right in not doing it. I think I'm a better parent for it. But I really don't like the idea of turning that kind of judgment right back at other mothers. We face so much of it already, don't we? Isnt' that why half of us are here?
Perhaps we just disagree in that I don't think cio is as abusive as some of you do. But keep in mind that it IS a mainstream parenting practice. That doesn't make it right, at all-but it means that a lot of otherwise well-meaning and loving parents do it. They don't deserve to be painted with such a nasty brush, especially in these circumstances.
post #53 of 108
Casi's Mama--Excellent post, thanks for saying it!! ITA.

(P.S. I'm goodtwin elsewhere)
post #54 of 108
Quote:
Originally posted by sadie_sabot
I know all of this happened years ago but I want to add my 2 cents...

the parents likely suffered a lot. the people who need to be punished are the so-called experts who ignore scientific evidence and push parents to do CIO and other forms of de-tachment parenting. I also think the people who do parenting techniques like cio and spanking (and shaming etc etc) think they are doing what is best for their kids (especially regarding the idea that we need to force them into independence so they can get along in society). if we (we being society I guess) approach these incidents on a one by one basis, punishing the parents, then it will continue forever. if the people who advocate this stuff are held accountable and debunked, then it might stop.

Oh yeah, and those of us who know better gotta keep on talking about it and sharing what we know!
This is how I feel too.


When parents post here, exhausted and tempted to try CIO they get options to try, support and hugs. We have all been there at some stage of our childrens life. So why couldn't that family have tried some options? Her parents lived really close by... They had people staying with them... Im sure one of them could have helped out
I hope it doesn't sound like Im judging the parents. They listened to the advice that is commonly given (and sadly still is given). I know they felt unbelievable pain and grief and anger when they lost their son.

I have heard stories of CIO where the children cry so hard they vomit, then have to sleep in it. In my opinion, that is abuse.
post #55 of 108
Quote:
The next time she says that your hubby should say something like "I think that sort of thing goes on in nursing homes too, so you'll get your chance."

I love it!!!
post #56 of 108
Please folks, I see a lot of people jumping to conclusions here. Remember that this is a magazine article and I am sure it was edited to make it fit the space allowed. I'm a newspaper editor and I'm sure I routinely edit out facts that someone else thinks are vitally important. So we don't know if this mother checked on her baby or not. We don't know if there was an investigation or an autopsy or whatever.

There isn't any evidence that the CIO CAUSED the death. If CIO did that, there would be more infant deaths since the majority of people are given the advise to do this. I don't like it or agree with it or do it, but it is mainstream advise given out by many (if not most) pediatritians today.

Lets hope that everything that a subset of parents think is abuse is never legally classified as such because I guarentee that most of us would find ourselves on the "wrong" end of that deal really quickly. Everyone makes decisions about their family to try to do what is best. We all need to respect that if we expect respect in return.

Edited because I skip words sometimes.
post #57 of 108
I'm sorry but I think that is just crap. Excusing abuse because its mainstream is ridiculous. Saying someone isn't educated so they don't know any better is ridiculous. What about taking responsibility for one's own actions? I don't give a damn if every friggin person in the world is telling you to let your child CIO you do NOT have to do it. You do have a brain in your head and if you have children hopefully a heart. I can't stand how people excuse all these "mainstream" abuses as oh they don't know any better that is what they were taught. Bullshit! Anyone can do better by their child if they want to. I was raised in mainstream society with no exposure WHATSOEVER to any AP practices. But I had a child and instinctively knew not to do those abusive things. I am no different than anyone else or better than anyone else. Everyone screws up yes but accepting ABUSE in the name of mainstream so it's okay is perpostorous and WRONG! CIO is abuse plain and simple! How the hell can anyone argue otherwise. Tell you what since we've had the nursing home reference. You go take your aged mother to the nursing home. Strap her to a bed (akin to being trapped in a crib (I do use a crib but not for CIO) ) and then leave her by herself. She wants something? Those workers will not go to her. She needs to learn to comfort herself. She screams and screams and screams and no one comes. But ahhh, the difference. Your mother has a voice so she tells someone about what has happened and they get brought up on criminal charges, lose their license and the nursing home is shut down. This is a horrifying prospect. Or how about you? You get admitted to hospital for something and no one comes to help you when you scream? It would NEVER be accepted! So why in the hell is it okay to do it to our MOST important members of society, our innocent children, our future? All in the name of mainstream? Screw it, I won't accept that!
post #58 of 108
Heavenly I totally agree!

Being left til 4am screaming is even *against* what normal CIO advocates would be accepting of! Even if that child went to "bed" at midnight that's FOUR HOURS of crying! I don't know about anyone else's child, but if I can't get to Orion (like driving) or figure out what's wrong with him he's hysterical in 15 minutes, tops. Catching his breath, coughing, gasping for breath, snot pouring out of his nose, legs and arms flailing, face beet red, tears pooling in his little ears, ect. I couldn't imagine what he'd be like crying for hours!

I do agree its very hard when you're exhausted. I have sat with Orion in my arms and bawled with him (before I learned to nurse side laying) because I was SO tired. Dh took a few half days from work to tend to DS so I could sleep for a few hour stretch (nurse him, hand off to dad, sleep, repeat).

I do feel horrible for the parents. I do feel sad for them. I'm not saying I don't. And I'm not saying they were PURPOSEFULLY trying to abuse their child. But they were and did. I feel horribly that we all live in a society that largely doesn't think for itself. I do feel that so many people are just sheep and do what they are told without thinking. Of *course* if you think of it like Heavenly stated its clear its abuse. But SO many parents just *don't* think about things like this at ALL. Its straight from the baby book/doctor to putting it into practice. I don't know why you wouldn't think about it, but just like so many people think formula is just as good as breastmilk, never even ponder the thought of having a highly medicated birth just 'because', ect, ect, they do the same thing with how they raise their children.
post #59 of 108
Quote:
I know a mom who spanks her 11 month old (take off her diaper and lays her over her knee to do it)
This makes me absolutely sudder. Spanking an 11 month old notwithstanding, but taking her diaper off to do it????????????? The vision of it makes me sick to my stomach.
post #60 of 108
That is unbearably sad. When I think of how sad and lonely and terrifying that poor baby's last few hours were, it's even sadder.

I am a die hard anti CIO and a lot of people around me don't understand. I don't understand how anyone could EVER, EVER leave their baby alone to suffer this way.
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