Talk to me about DTaP

[Tiffany_in_ga]

I was pretty surprised, after lurking here for awhile, to see Dr. Sears stand so firmly for giving DTaP at 2 months. Plase help me understand why he (and presumably, my pediatrician) feel so strongly about this vax.

I understand it's highly reactive (scream, brain issues, seizures..right?).

I also understand it doesn't prevent P...only lessens the symptoms (right?).

And P. is most dangerous for the littlest babies....most fatal before 2 mos....and rare for severe complications after 6 mos, right? So why the big push to vax at 2 mos if you've already passed the most dangerous time frame for contracting P?

I just need some clarification. This is the only vax I really feel conflicted about. Obviously, I would love to lessen the chances of my girl getting P.....but the potential side effects of DTaP scare the bejeezus out of me. And to be perfectly honest, I have that mommy gut feeling NOT to give this vax. I just want my head and mama gut to be in alignment!

FTR baby girl is formula fed, no daycare. Nobody in school.

[carriebft]

Some countries actually give the DTaP earlier and research is looking right now at changing the DTaP to the birth vaccine (or earlier in general). I think within a year or so we will have this recommendation here as well.

[medusaatemydog]

i wouldn't give a reactive vax like that firstly because of the fact that formula fed babies don't get the nutrition that breastmilk gives and nutrition has such an impact on developement and what gets me about vaxs is that they do damage, whether you can see it or not... major bodily organs and nervous system is affected, and young children are probably more at risk being bottle fed.. the nervous system is not fully developed yet. You can't take the vax out you can't undo it... i vaxed at the begining until i saw a reaction in my child, though mild compared to others i've read about.. i think that vaxs are not and cannot be safe enough because of thier synthetic nature and the adjuvants that need to be used.. manipulating the immune system in a way that is completely unnatural and that our biological systems did not evolve to work and be manipulated this way... it is a profitable manipulation with little benefit as far as i am concerned and even if you use this vax there is no guarantee your child will not be adversely affected or free of catching these diseases. It's an opinion... that is all... i would never advise anyone to use vaxs i don't believe they are worth the risks seen or unseen risk and damage are inevitable concerning vaxs to what degree of risk a damage are you willing to accept.. there is no health in vaxing it's more political control and profit than anything else

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by carriebft

Some countries actually give the DTaP earlier and research is looking right now at changing the DTaP to the birth vaccine (or earlier in general). I think within a year or so we will have this recommendation here as well.

That is awful. I can't believe how much crap people want to jam into a baby.

My pedi actually said that dtap was lowest on his list to give because pertussis is constantly changing and it is not a very effective vax, tetanus is not a risk for a baby, and diphtheria is not a risk here.

ETA: Dr. Sears is very pro-vax. Don't be surprised that he recommends vaxes, be surprised when he doesn't.

[carriebft]

If the aim is to save more infants from pertussis, then giving the vaccine earlier is, IMO, the prudent thing to do. It makes more sense to have the DTaP as the birth vaccine rather than Hep B.

[medusaatemydog]

Originally Posted by carriebft

If the aim is to save more infants from pertussis, then giving the vaccine earlier is, IMO, the prudent thing to do. It makes more sense to have the DTaP as the birth vaccine rather than Hep B.

we don't need a diptheria vax and certainly don't need to vax a baby for tetnus and pertussis is not very affective at all.. Hep B is completely ridiculous for the average person... there is no point to any of it... i don't see where any of it is prudent... profitable more so than prudent

nutrition and natural medicine would be so much more effective... accent on the nutrition because your state of health largely rests on whether you are feeding what it needs to function.. mcdonalds and twinkies are a death nell, nutrition is key and is more of a factor in your bodys' ability to function

[honeybunch2k8]

I have refused to take any toxoid vax for myself, and I definitely wouldn't give it to a baby. You can pm me if you like.

[carriebft]

Well, I suppose that is your opinion. But I see ample evidence that the pertussis vaccine offers protection and lessens severity if the vaccine fails in many cases. Tetanus is very rare, though unvaccinated children are more likely to get it than those who are vaccinated:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or.../full/109/1/e2

So, like most vaccine decisions, it is not so cut and dry to me.

[honeybunch2k8]

Originally Posted by carriebft

Some countries actually give the DTaP earlier and research is looking right now at changing the DTaP to the birth vaccine (or earlier in general). I think within a year or so we will have this recommendation here as well.

BOOOOO HIIISSSSSS.

So if DTaP causes your baby to have personality changes you won't know since they were given it at birth.

BOOOOOO.

[medusaatemydog]

Originally Posted by carriebft

Some countries actually give the DTaP earlier and research is looking right now at changing the DTaP to the birth vaccine (or earlier in general). I think within a year or so we will have this recommendation here as well.

this is why i am leaving this country... i can't live like this anymore... you cannot get rid of disease by injecting yourself w/vax... there will only be another diseases and they keep pushing more vaxs (when will it end), your immune system will eventually collapse it was not meant to tolerate this... your major bodily organs will cease to function in a healthy state... the vaccine concept in this country is insane....
The gen pop is going to have major immunity issues because they will have allowed no natural course of disease and the adverse effects are nothing but a windfall for pharma profit... got to give your body a chance.. stop taking away children right to be healthly and free of synthetic chemical manipulation and experimentation...

[carriebft]

I don't see a doomsday for my kids. They've had rotavirus and that's about it. All selectively vaccinated with no issues...not even a single round of antibiotics. I just don't think there is evidence of your claims out there and there certainly don't apply to my family. My husband and I also were vaccinated and we have not had problems.

I think we can attribute these things to our healthy lifestyle and laid back attitude on life...we limit stress, exercise and get our outside time, eat good foods, and the children are exposed to life and have a great time. these, plus genetics, I feel make for where we are. IMO of course.

eta: I suppose I should add that there weren't vaccinated for rota for numerous reasons. But I do not think the fact that they got rota is attributable to a failure of their immune system due to the vaccines they have had. I feel they have gotten protection from the ones they have and obviously will be vulnerable to things they have not had before or had not had the vax for.

[medusaatemydog]

Originally Posted by carriebft

Well, I suppose that is your opinion. But I see ample evidence that the pertussis vaccine offers protection and lessens severity if the vaccine fails in many cases. Tetanus is very rare, though unvaccinated children are more likely to get it than those who are vaccinated:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or.../full/109/1/e2

So, like most vaccine decisions, it is not so cut and dry to me.

most children i see coughing like smokers are fully vaxed... i have rarely seen an unvaxed kid coughing like a smoker.. if at all... did you know that vax affects the lining of the lungs? the villi of your major bodily organs are affected by vax.
i do not consider pertussis that scary, but that being sad nutritional status has much to do w/susceptablility... and most people feed thier kids fast food which is full of highly toxic chemicals wrapped in pretty paper w/ a toy inside... if people knew how to feed thier children stats would be much different... i am very reluctant to read publication from the aap because they are extremely biased and are not innocent of manipulating data to increase vaccination... after all they are the ones who tell ped to say to people 'if you don't get a measles shot your child will die'... it's like reading research from the same company that sells the product... there is extreme bias and most likely conflict of interest... in all ... i doubt that the pertussis vaccine is effective at all...

especially when you have practicing pediatricians like paul offit who practices medicine and involved in vaccine laws and politics and who profits and holds patents on vaccine... this man is a criminal... and there are many more like him... obama has hired quite a few to deal w/public health policy and it's getting scary...

[carriebft]

well, we will not agree on that point. (pertussis point)

[medusaatemydog]

Originally Posted by carriebft

I don't see a doomsday for my kids. They've had rotavirus and that's about it. All selectively vaccinated with no issues...not even a single round of antibiotics. I just don't think there is evidence of your claims out there and there certainly don't apply to my family. My husband and I also were vaccinated and we have not had problems.

I think we can attribute these things to our healthy lifestyle and laid back attitude on life...we limit stress, exercise and get our outside time, eat good foods, and the children are exposed to life and have a great time. these, plus genetics, I feel make for where we are. IMO of course.

eta: I suppose I should add that there weren't vaccinated for rota for numerous reasons. But I do not think the fact that they got rota is attributable to a failure of their immune system due to the vaccines they have had. I feel they have gotten protection from the ones they have and obviously will be vulnerable to things they have not had before or had not had the vax for.

i think there is plenty of evidence out there.. not all effects of vaccine are visible... so much info that is suppressed and manipulated to obtain compliance to vaccine mandates... vax does not save you from vunerability, your overall health does... and when it comes to vaxing infants for pertussis i think people are taking serious chances... the adjuvants alone can be more risky than any of those diseases... the myelin sheath of an infants nervous system has not yet developed and brain inflamation is a serious risk amongst a long list of other side effects that are denied by the medical industry.. after all there are hundred of thousands of parents finding they are not alone and this coincedence theory is about to bust... the evidence is everywhere in independant research and everywhere you look... most people find it easier to deny... but many of these shots are nothing but politcally motivated profit based on fear... i see the evidence in medical journals cdc who... i have books with long lists and references to legit research... you won't see it publicized because the main objective in the vaccine campaign is compliance... THE TRUTH SHALL SET THEM FREE and they don't want that... because they wouldn't have a billion dollar industry anymore and pediatricians would have no more business...

[carriebft]

Again, I disagree, but I think to go point by point would take this thread too far off topic. though I would like to see another thread at some point on your idea of adjuvants being more dangerous than any of the diseases. This would be an interesting debate, though I think a lot would come down to opinions on diseases, as we all see 'risk' in different ways.

[medusaatemydog]

injecting aluminum directly into the body destroys the brain and nervous tissue, getting one of these mild diseases doesn't neccessarily leave you damaged like aluminum does.. your body cannot eliminate this from your brain and other nervouse tissue... and that is an adjuvant and to me that is worse than just getting measle mumps or chicken pox or rubella... it's ridiculous... and if there wasn't mandatory vaccination and there wasn't so much pressure to force this on families we would not even be debating this.. we are debating this use because they want people to fear ... that is the only way to validate any mandatory medicine... aluminum is really dangerous and so are trace amounts of mercury.. sorry but i would take natural disease anyday than to beat my immune system and increase my load of aluminum... go research aluminum injectables and the fact that vaccines are not properly regulated as other injectables that may contain aluminum... i would rather have the pox ... noone is going to get every single disease and constantly being injected with all these vaxs cannot possibly be safe or without future consequence...
if vaccines were not mandatory noone would be concerned and we would not have the issues with our children we have now... it's like trading one disease for chronic disease and no doubt at higher risk for cancer.. debating little pieces of bias research will do nothing but keep us chasing our tails and not on the real problem.. that is mandatory medicine in any form ....

[carriebft]

But MMR and chicken pox don't contain those things...

eta in case clarification is needed: there is no aluminum or mercury in those vaccines.

[Tiffany_in_ga]

If anyone would like to circle this back to my OP I'd appreciate it!!!!

Anyone? :-)

[Multimomma]

Originally Posted by Tiffany_in_ga

And P. is most dangerous for the littlest babies....most fatal before 2 mos....and rare for severe complications after 6 mos, right? So why the big push to vax at 2 mos if you've already passed the most dangerous time frame for contracting P?

I don't know why the big push is at 2 months. DTaP is the reason we stopped vaccinating all together, my three oldest children reacted very severely to it. Actually, the oldest two reacted to DTP with 108 fevers. They reacted to DTaP with 106 fevers. Six of one, half a dozen of another. When Number three reacted, I basically wrote that crap off completely.

They've all had pertussis as older children. The severity is exactly identical to the younger children who were NOT vaccinated. Anec-data, perhaps, but significant within our genetic makeup.

[carriebft]

The vaccine is not perfect. These are some of the things we considered (concerning pertussis):

-the vaccine prevents or lessens symptoms in many cases--when it fails to prevent pertussis, it has been shown to average a 7 day illness rather than a 21 day illness

-there are three brands available in the USA, each has a different amount of aluminum and other ingredients people consider problematic

-it is questionable whether or not it can prevent transmission- there is conflicting evidence on both sides though I tend to see it as not preventing very much transmission these days

-pertussis can have serious side effects post 6 mnths such as cracked ribs and pneumonia as well as being a prolonged illness, which has its own possible effects on a child's well being

-immunity fades-- natural pertussis infection and the vaccine both do not last, although natural infection immunity lasts a bit longer than the vaccine