Mom "pleads guilty to drunken breastfeeding"!

[Sotevenn]

This popped up as a news story the other day when dh was at the pc

"Grand Forks mom pleads guilty in drunk breastfeeding case"
http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/123887

It doesn't give too much info about the case, but it does sound like the charges were brought because she was breastfeeding in a drunken state, not because she was caring for her child while drunk. Would she have been arrested had she been bottlefeeding while in the same state?

I also think most people do not know how much alcohol actually gets into your breast milk as some reactions we saw posted to the story seemed to think her breastmilk was basically pouring full strength alcohol into the baby. It's a totally sensationalized headline and think it's just spreading misinformation, fear & discouraging bf in the media yet again! Not to mention what a scary state of the world that this charge was brought against her.

[Fruitful4Him]

yeah...I read that too. I am not a big advocate of sloshing em back while breastfeeding; however, I also don't want breastfeeding moms to think they cant have a glass of wine with dinner ((or insert whatever here)) b/c I fear it will deter some moms from even considering a breastfeeding relationship..just one more piece of themself to give up, etc. with motherhood. The media sucks sometimes.

[KimberlyD0]

I saw the original article for this as well. This wasn't a glass of wine deal. This was intentionally drinking to exess and then feeding the baby. Something that can and does hurt babies.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/cars/Dr...804/story.html How bout this one? was it right then? when the baby died?

Its not about not being able to have a drink of wine or something, its about being responsible about it. This mother wasn't being responsible.

Also I suspect there is more too it as well.

[kathymuggle]

I read the article as well. I think it would have been responsible of the paper to point out that having one drink while nursing is fine - but that breastfeeding while sloshed is not.

I hate it when media and health organisations paint it as black and white.

I that health organisations often do it in a patronising way - they do not expect us to be able to judge what is too much and what is not - so they create blanket bans.

I think it is far healthier for mother asnd baby to breastfeed even if the mother has an occasional drink, than to skip breastfeeding entirely because the mother equates breatfeeding with not being able to have an odd drink.

FWIW - I have met two women in real life who told me they did not BF because "they wanted their bodies back". I do not doubt that concerns around drinking played a small part in it.

Kathy

[spicyrock]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

I read the article as well. I think it would have been responsible of the paper to point out that having one drink while nursing is fine - but that drinking while sloshed is not.



Kathy

I agree. It also would have been more responsible of the paper to print more factual evidence, like the BAC of the lady at the time of the arrest, instead of simply calling her "extremely intoxicated."

[PatioGardener]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

http://www.calgaryherald.com/cars/Dr...804/story.html How bout this one? was it right then? when the baby died?

This news report just doesn't make sense physiologically. The amount of alcohol she would have had to have drunk to get the concentration in her breastmilk up high enough to kill a 4 month old baby would have killed her first. I think she must have fed baby alcohol straight in her drunken state.

Chronic alcoholism has been shown to have a negative impact on a breastfed baby's health, but the big dangers of breastfeeding while intoxicated are the same dangers of parenting while intoxicated! Poor judgement, poor reflexes, poor coordination, poor balance, passing out and neglecting the baby, etc.

[Litcrit]

ummm... okay, six weeks is very young, but... if she did not have to have her stomach pumped, or passed out, it likely means she had less than 0.3/0.4% of alcohol in her bloodstream/breastmilk - which means her baby, who may have drunk what? (I don't know what amounts a baby will imbibe - have never bottlefed) a relatively small amount of breastmilk - will probably have had the equivalent of a thimbleful of beer, or something. Hardly something harmful.

I'm not saying 'let's all get sloshed and then breastfeed' - but some perspective is in order, I think.

[mysticmomma]

average feeding is 3-5oz at that age.

[Baha'iMama]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle

I think it is far healthier for mother asnd baby to breastfeed even if the mother has an occasional drink, than to skip breastfeeding entirely because the mother equates breatfeeding with not being able to have an odd drink.

FWIW - I have met two women in real life who told me they did not BF because "they wanted their bodies back". I do not doubt that concerns around drinking played a small part in it.

Kathy

This is such a sad statement on the condition of some people's priorities.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Baha'iMama

This is such a sad statement on the condition of some people's priorities.

Yes - but it is important to meet people where they are.

If a woman who likes to drink in moderation is wavering on whether to breastfeed and one of the the factors at play is alcohal consumption - it is a factor we should easily be able to alleviate.

Occasional drinking and nursing are fine.

This is why sensationalistic articles, or articles that do not give the whole picture on breastfeeding, do a disservice to babies and mothers.

[Litcrit]

Originally Posted by mysticmomma

average feeding is 3-5oz at that age.

which is around a deciliter which is 20% of, say, a large beer which has 5% alc. vol.

which means that the baby would be having, alcohol-wise, 0.2 (20%) of a large (0.5l) beer IF mom's alc vol was 5%, like the beer...

but if she was not in a hospital due to drinking, it was most likely FAR less than 0.5%... (a friend of mine barely survived 0.4% after having her stomach pumped)

... which means the baby (if her mom was almost dying due to alcohol) had 0.02 (2%) of one beer - two hundredths of a beer bottle - imagine a baby having not a shot glass, but two TENTHS of a shot glass of beer - would you call CPS? the police? I mean, parents who rub alcohol on teething gums give far more, don't they?

in wine terms: a deciliter is 10% of a wine bottle, and wine has 15% alc. vol.

baby would have 0.1 (10%) of a wine bottle, in terms of alcohol, IF mom had a 15% blood alcohol volume

But she'd have 0.5% at most, if she was not hospitalized - so baby had at most a thirtieth of that, and thus a thirtieth/fifteenth of a standard glass of wine (0.1 to 0.2 liters). Let's say it's a tenth, even. It still makes it less than 2% of a wine bottle, TOPS. And 2% of a wine bottle is about a tea spoonful of wine...

And the Russian mom who had 0.5l of PURE ALCOHOL is VERY DIFFERENT in that pure alcohol is pure alcohol even without enormous quantities... there is NO comparison here...

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by Litcrit

which is around a deciliter which is 20% of, say, a large beer which has 5% alc. vol.

which means that the baby would be having, alcohol-wise, 0.2 (20%) of a large (0.5l) beer IF mom's alc vol was 5%, like the beer...

but if she was not in a hospital due to drinking, it was most likely FAR less than 0.5%... (a friend of mine barely survived 0.4% after having her stomach pumped)

... which means the baby (if her mom was almost dying due to alcohol) had 0.02 (2%) of one beer - two hundredths of a beer bottle - imagine a baby having not a shot glass, but two TENTHS of a shot glass of beer - would you call CPS? the police? I mean, parents who rub alcohol on teething gums give far more, don't they?

in wine terms: a deciliter is 10% of a wine bottle, and wine has 15% alc. vol.

baby would have 0.1 (10%) of a wine bottle, in terms of alcohol, IF mom had a 15% blood alcohol volume

But she'd have 0.5% at most, if she was not hospitalized - so baby had at most a thirtieth of that, and thus a thirtieth/fifteenth of a standard glass of wine (0.1 to 0.2 liters). Let's say it's a tenth, even. It still makes it less than 2% of a wine bottle, TOPS. And 2% of a wine bottle is about a tea spoonful of wine...

And the Russian mom who had 0.5l of PURE ALCOHOL is VERY DIFFERENT in that pure alcohol is pure alcohol even without enormous quantities... there is NO comparison here...

Yeah, drinking pure alcohol, even for an adult, is essentially drinking poison. Not good for anyone.

But for a baby to imbibe enough from a normal alcoholic beverage through BM to be seriously affected, the mom would be in serious trouble. She would likely be unable to breastfeed at all.

[princesstutu]

Did drinking become illegal and no one told me?

Are there laws against being drunk and breastfeeding that I'm unaware of?

This is fascist. I'm disgusted.

[Treece]

Are mothers of FAS (fetal alcohol syndrome) babies prosecuted for that? That is much much worse.

No one HAS to listen to the advise of the cops standing right there. Maybe she had talked this over with her ped.....Maybe?

[KimberlyD0]

Originally Posted by Treece

Are mothers of FAS (fetal alcohol syndrome) babies prosecuted for that? That is much much worse.

No one HAS to listen to the advise of the cops standing right there. Maybe she had talked this over with her ped.....Maybe?

Maybe they should be

Saddly the one thing I think preventing that is that untill the baby is born they have no rights.

If people were arrested and charged for it maybe people would think twice before doing it.

[spicyrock]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

If people were arrested and charged for it maybe people would think twice before doing it.

I doubt it. Alcoholics are well aware of the dangers of drinking heavily during pregnancy. Unfortunately, they are sometimes so diseased that they are able to rationalize this decision, or ignore the facts.

In all likelihood, arresting the mothers of fas babies would do more harm than good. It would also set a dangerous precedent- because no one's behavior is -perfect- during pregnancy (or any other time). I live in a smoggy city, for example. If my baby has asthma, can I be charged with neglect?

[mamazee]

Where is there a law called "drunken breastfeeding?" That isn't what she was arrested for. So what WAS she arrested for? Public drunkness? Child endangerment (for which the bf might only have been part of the issue - if she was so drunk she could have been unable to adequately supervise the baby as well)?

[Magali]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

Maybe they should be

Saddly the one thing I think preventing that is that untill the baby is born they have no rights.

If people were arrested and charged for it maybe people would think twice before doing it.

But that would open a whole can of worms because there are so many things that a pregnant woman could do to harm her baby, so where would it end? And also what about mothers who have an occasional glass of wine and their babies turn out fine? Should they be arrested too? And lastly, the last thing any baby needs is a mama in jail.

[KimberlyD0]

The safest amount for ANY baby, before or after birth is 0

yes there is a difference between a drink once in a while and getting drunk and BF constantly. I think we can all agree on that.

Its safest for babies and young children to make a blanket statement of don
't drink while pregnant and BF, then to take the chance of a child getting seriously harmed through parental neglect or ignorence.

Just my :

I would never say to a women who is BF that she is never allowed a drink, nore I think would anyone else. But drinking to access is not a good thing. FF or BF its not a good thing, but at least with FF babies are not getting any alcahol (not saying they should have formula btw)

The way I look at it is I am BF so my child can have the best and healthiest start, why ruin that woth alcahol which is bad for me and her. Everything else I feed my child I make sure is natural and clean, and healthy, and mostly organic. Why not her BM too.

[mamazee]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

The way I look at it is I am BF so my child can have the best and healthiest start, why ruin that woth alcahol which is bad for me and her. Everything else I feed my child I make sure is natural and clean, and healthy, and mostly organic. Why not her BM too.

BF is the norm. It isn't just for people who make sure everything is natural, clean, healthy, and mostly organic. And the trace amounts of alcohol in breastmilk after drinking one or two drinks are fewer than the various chemicals in formula anyway. Both formula and breastmilk with a trace amount of alcohol are safe.