Faith AND good works

[laohaire]

Besides Catholicism, are there any Christian religions that require faith AND good works?

It's my understanding that Protestants require faith alone, but I'm not clear if Catholics and Protestants make up 100% of recognized Christian faiths, or if it's possible that some Protestant sects do indeed require good works as well.

This is more than an academic question, my DH has been struggling with religion for a very long time, and it's been painful for him.

[Tradd]

I wouldn't say the Orthodox *require* good works, but it's a logical progression that faith WILL produce good works. It's a matter of a good tree producing fruit. If you didn't do any good works, would look kinda wierd, eh?

[kimiij]

Most protestants will say that good works is the fruit of faith. When you have Faith in Jesus, naturally, you will eventually want to do good works.

[cappuccinosmom]

Conservative anabaptists (Amish Menno and Brethren) usually have rules that require certain "works" as evidence of their faith. That's one reason they got in trouble with other Protestants, and are often accused of being a "works based religion".

[LionTigerBear]

LDS believe that faith without works is dead. So we are definitely in the "faith AND works" camp.

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by LionTigerBear

LDS believe that faith without works is dead. So we are definitely in the "faith AND works" camp.

DH and I thought that perhaps this was the case. Thanks.

[Bluegoat]

Yeah, "justification by faith alone" is a Protestant thing, but of course they all think that good works follow faith. The RC and Orthodox Churches see the two as united in a closer way, like body and soul - a kind of organic unity.

[farmkids42morrow]

We are Jehovah's Witnesses (which is a Christian religion; some people don't realize that because we don't celebrate Christmas), and we believe what James 2:26 says "Indeed, as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead."

[genifer]

Im just beginning to realise or finally accept that there is not one denomination that actually adheres (for lack of a better word... probably wrong word here) to or just accepts and does what Jesus taught. We make up different denominations and try to stick to a code of behaviour or ethics and I actually believe Jesus' teaching went strictly against this. I think all the denominations have done was recreate sects that are similar to the pharasees and saducees and the scribes of Jesus' day. There is no denomination which gets it all right. I think to know what we're supposed to do we just gotta follow Christ and no one else, no denomination will ever fit or do it right. Its about living thru faith. Living=doing and we 'do it' by faith. Its a big leap, takes a lot of trust in God.

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by genifer

Im just beginning to realise or finally accept that there is not one denomination that actually adheres (for lack of a better word... probably wrong word here) to or just accepts and does what Jesus taught. We make up different denominations and try to stick to a code of behaviour or ethics and I actually believe Jesus' teaching went strictly against this. I think all the denominations have done was recreate sects that are similar to the pharasees and saducees and the scribes of Jesus' day. There is no denomination which gets it all right. I think to know what we're supposed to do we just gotta follow Christ and no one else, no denomination will ever fit or do it right. Its about living thru faith. Living=doing and we 'do it' by faith. Its a big leap, takes a lot of trust in God.

You sound like one of the non-denominational denominations, genifer!

Of course a Roman Catholic or an Orthodox Christian would agree with you and say forget the denominations, and join the Church.

[Peppermint]

Originally Posted by Bluegoat

You sound like one of the non-denominational denominations, genifer!

Of course a Roman Catholic or an Orthodox Christian would agree with you and say forget the denominations, and join the Church.

very true.

[genifer]

You sound like one of the non-denominational denominations, genifer!

Of course a Roman Catholic or an Orthodox Christian would agree with you and say forget the denominations, and join the Church.

Well, I am part of the Church , but the one without walls, who's leader/head is Christ Himself!

(I totally know how patronising that may sound... and Im totally not trying to sound patronising, just trying to say that I guess we dont need to be part of any denomination... not even the nondenominational ones!! LOL)... it can be a scary, but very exciting existance!

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by genifer

Well, I am part of the Church , but the one without walls, who's leader/head is Christ Himself!

Do you have any religious community? Do you formally worship on a regular basis? Do you have anyone (earthly) to give you guidance?

Also, do you think non-denominational carries flaws as do organized churches?

(These are questions from someone perhaps interested in non-denominational, not challenges)

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by laohaire

Do you have any religious community? Do you formally worship on a regular basis? Do you have anyone (earthly) to give you guidance?

Also, do you think non-denominational carries flaws as do organized churches?

(These are questions from someone perhaps interested in non-denominational, not challenges)

There weren't meant for me, but I think they are interesting questions.

Can we "be alone" as Christians, not part of a community? What does it mean to not want to subject ourselves to a community, what are the possible consequences?

If you have a gathering of people, do you let them all come in, or do they need to somehow define themselves by belief, or practice? How do you decide how to worship together? How do you deal with problems or disgreements?

And once you have defined anything, even "We use the Bible as our Guide" or "We just follow Jesus" you are interpreting. Doesn't that make you a denomination? Are you not fooling yourself if you claim otherwise?


As far as problems with non-denominational churches, I think they follow from these questions. They can easily develop an arrogant attitude that their religious principles are somehow more directly from God than other people's or groups. It is easy, then, for them to get caught up in strange and perhaps unhealthy beliefs, because they can't reflect that their lens for interpreting dbelief might be clouded - as far as they are concerned, they have no lens.

Also, there is no oversight and a charismatic leader can gain a lot of power in such a group, and there are many examples of this going wrong.

[genifer]

Do you have any religious community? Do you formally worship on a regular basis? Do you have anyone (earthly) to give you guidance?

Also, do you think non-denominational carries flaws as do organized churches?

(These are questions from someone perhaps interested in non-denominational, not challenges)

Ive moved around so much that Ive been fortunate enough to be involved in a variety of different 'kinds' of churches. The last church I was involved in was a church of England (living in uk) and before that it was a nondenom sort of baptist church. Before that it was an Presbetryan (sp?) for about a year and before that it was definatey a nondenom, Calvary Chapel church. Whenever I move I always seek a church family. We've moved due to circumstances completely out of my control so its not as if I move every few years to church hop. I think every single church has its flaws. I LOVE to worship within a church community. Ive worshipped in My fil's pentacostal, mostly african and jamaican congregation, that was unique but special! I have gone without fellowship over the years from time to time, ranging in time from a few months to about two years. There are times when I come away from the church community bc I feel like Ive outgrown it, that was the last church I was in (the CoE). Not to say they are doing bad things or teaching doctrine I dont agree with, but I *knew* it had been time for me to move on for some time before God sort of forced the situation (circumstances in home life made it impossible to go to church). I love fellowship with fellow christians, I really really miss it when I go without. Ive recently started going to a baptist church down the road from me! Been going there since just before Christmas. When I walked in, I had been reluctant to go bc I had been kind of burned by my last church, nothing too dramatic but felt spiritually used (they wanted some one they deemed very spiritual to spoon feed them, and thought I could do it, but thats not me), so I kind of had to be 'forced' back into church fellowship again. But Im glad I started going. Ironically, it was my 8yo son who formerly hated church, who said 'Mum, I think we should go to that church!' this was on our walk to school. I had been praying about it and took that as an answer to prayer. Since starting Ive really enjoyed it, but havent been up to giving as much of my time as I normally would, which I have a tendancy to feel guilty about, but I *know* I cant handle it (been thru a lot, need a lot of healing before I commit) But they are an absolutely lovely bunch. Very understanding.

I hope that answers your questions. What a different atmosphere this side of the spirituality section is ... very refreshing! (will I have to edit that? I just wanted to say!)

[genifer]

Blue, I just wanted to add that I really hope I dont come across as arrogant. Maybe I should say I can feel comfortable in any denomination. Or that I am All-Denominational, lol!

Id love to go into it further, but I have kids to bathe and such. This is a lovely discussion tho and I hope I can come back after reflecting on this more.. bc its actually something that Ive recently been thinking about. How radical Jesus was/Is... bc I personally believe He's alive today and at work, maybe not so much in our culture bc we think we 'know' him. We're saturated Christians I think. ... and of coarse I should have stopped a little while ago bc I know the words arent coming out right, lol. I know what Im trying to say is extremely difficult to put into words.

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by genifer

Blue, I just wanted to add that I really hope I dont come across as arrogant.

Not at all!

[*honeybee*]

Originally Posted by genifer

Blue, I just wanted to add that I really hope I dont come across as arrogant. Maybe I should say I can feel comfortable in any denomination. Or that I am All-Denominational, lol!

Id love to go into it further, but I have kids to bathe and such. This is a lovely discussion tho and I hope I can come back after reflecting on this more.. bc its actually something that Ive recently been thinking about. How radical Jesus was/Is... bc I personally believe He's alive today and at work, maybe not so much in our culture bc we think we 'know' him. We're saturated Christians I think. ... and of coarse I should have stopped a little while ago bc I know the words arent coming out right, lol. I know what Im trying to say is extremely difficult to put into words.

Not to me, that's for sure. It's respectful and interesting. Thanks for talking!