can we really change anything?

[nerdymom]

I posted a few weeks ago about getting the bravado up to talk about circ with a pg friend. Well she had her baby (home water birth) and her midwives recommended a moile (sp?) to perform her son's circumcision. He had it this week I believe...she told me, I guess because she knew how strongly I felt about it, so that I wouldn't be surprised that she did, maybe? Anyhow it just left me with a sad sinking feeling in my stomach, and everytime I think about it makes me sad. Maybe if I had done something more this little boy wouldn't be hurting right now. And I am torn between : and :

[ursaminor]

I just read your post and had to say I am really sorry to hear that. I really dont understand how a home birther/natural birther would justify a circumcision (although I know it happens).
...My heart goes out to that little guy.

-a

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by nerdymom

I posted a few weeks ago about getting the bravado up to talk about circ with a pg friend. Well she had her baby (home water birth) and her midwives recommended a moile (sp?) to perform her son's circumcision. He had it this week I believe...she told me, I guess because she knew how strongly I felt about it, so that I wouldn't be surprised that she did, maybe? Anyhow it just left me with a sad sinking feeling in my stomach, and everytime I think about it makes me sad. Maybe if I had done something more this little boy wouldn't be hurting right now. And I am torn between : and :

We are making a difference it's just that it's sometimes hard to tell but progress is always being made. It's even harder when a friend ignores you. Could you've done more? Maybe. Would it have help? It's hard to know. That's why you can't dwell on losses. We all lose someone sometime the best thing to do is keep trying. It's the only thing to do because as soon if you stop then you've really lost.

[liseux]

Seeing what state you're in I think I know what mw's it was and they always recommend a mohel, its crazy. I know how bad it feels to lose , I lose this battle all the time. I'm sorry.

[nerdymom]

For the time being I don't know anyone who is pg, so I suppose I will have time to rebuild my strategy some. That incident just really took the wind out of my sails.

[perspective]

Originally Posted by nerdymom

For the time being I don't know anyone who is pg, so I suppose I will have time to rebuild my strategy some. That incident just really took the wind out of my sails.

Coming from a young circed guy, I will say this. Every single time you try, it makes a difference. Dont ever give up, because it would have made the world of difference if someone like you could have stopped my parents. Also, just knowing someone objected to it would give an unhappy boy some feeling of support.

So although even one "small" victory in a series of defeats may seem like nothing, just one victory results in a lifetime of difference for that man, and maybe even to all the future males in his family.

There are many parts to this movement, what your doing could be considered "the ground war". Although little effort seems like its being made, every person like you together also makes a HUGE difference to the movement as a whole. Your single voice brings the whole intactivist movement charging into the minds of those who hear you. If they disagree with you or not, they now know a differing opinion exists.

So please, know what you do does make a BIG difference, a lifetime of difference. So never give up or feel discouraged.

[knucklehead]

Perspective, thank you for that. I needed to hear it because I get so unbelieveably jaded sometime. I long for the day when I know that I saved a baby boy.

[admiral76]

As sad as it is when things like this happen when you are so against it, this is a personal choice of the parents. If you've talked to them then they probably understand how unnecessary circ'ing and decide for whatever reason to move forward with it. Not circ'ing is gaining ground in this country though. One because the AAP doesn't endorse it and I think more insurance companies will probably move towards not paying for it as it's cosmetic surgery but I think the information about why people were circ'd in the first place and the uselessness of the whole procedure/reasoning is gaining ground. So you may have not prevented this one boy from the procedure but keep talking, you may save one in the future.

~doris

[dziwozony]

i don't know any worldwide stats, but moving to NZ from the US, people i talked to were shocked at how common circ is. even though you might feel like you're in the minority sometimes, there are may other people out there who understand how horrible & unnecessary it is.

i hadn't given any thought to the subject until i stumbled upon an anti-circ table at a conference. i now have two fully intact boys & am still grateful to them. i probably would have come around anyway getting into home birth & gentle approaches to babes, but the info they shared with me was powerful.

you DO make a difference talking about it whenever the opportunity arises.

[calngavinsmom]

Originally Posted by dziwozony

i hadn't given any thought to the subject until i stumbled upon an anti-circ table at a conference. i now have two fully intact boys & am still grateful to them. i probably would have come around anyway getting into home birth & gentle approaches to babes, but the info they shared with me was powerful.

you DO make a difference talking about it whenever the opportunity arises.

:
You never know who you are going to reach. All it took for me to get the wheels turning was a kind lady where I used to work when I was pg with #1. All she said was "If you have a boy will you circ? My dp and I didn't circ ds, it isn't that common around here anymore". I will never forget her and will always feel grateful

IMO, ric only happens now for two reasons, either the parents are ignorant or selfish. You might not be able to change the selfish, but just think about how many boys could be saved from you changing the ignorant

Take care,
Tara

[perspective]

Originally Posted by admiral76

As sad as it is when things like this happen when you are so against it, this is a personal choice of the parents.

I am sorry to break the flow of a good thread, and to what admiral said, which was some wise words, but not this part. It must be made clear, circumcision is not a personal choice for the parents. Not only is it not personal (not their body) its also not even necessary. Yet many people have been cultured into believing that its a decision they have to think about, or should have any right to even decide.

***Now back to your regularly scheduled posting***

[nerdymom]

perspective, thank you for posting. You really warmed my heart. I'm sorry for what you went through, but thank you for sharing your experience. You reminded me that even though this time it didn't work out, DH and I did manage to open the eyes of another couple, and their son is intact. 1-1 isn't such a bad statistic, I suppose.

And I TIA, circ is a personal decision - your son's, not yours. His body, his choice.

[SleeplessMommy]

Please keep in mind that the USA is pretty much the only country where doctor's are still circing infants. Every other country (Australia, Canada, Europe) has pretty much stopped or drastically reduced the procedure. And many countries never did do it - China, majority populations in India, etc.

I know it feels bad that one family chose to do it, but the numbers are dropping in the USA, and will continue to drop.

The next generation in the USA will grow up with a choice of intact vs. not intact partners. They will be much more educated about the harm of circ.

And about your experience with friend specifically - the first step in intactivism is to make sure parents know they have the option of leaving their baby intact. There are still some parents out there who think it is required or done 99% of the time.

[peainthepod]

Yes, you can change things. It was the gentle questioning of my intact friend followed by the research I did by reading this very subforum that turned me from ambivalent about circumcision to completely opposed.

You're doing great work just by posting here, and you never know who you'll reach if you speak (gently) to new mothers about it in person. Keep up the good fight, mamas.

[tutucrazy]

Poor boy. I'm so sorry for him.

Please don't ever give up. We have to try to end this at all costs and we need every single person to fight. I am in the same situation as you. Two people very close to me are about to deliver. I'm still trying even though I know my efforts probably fall on deaf ears, but I can't stop. Those poor boys only have us to speak for them. If we don't speak up then no one will. Their pain and suffering can't be silenced.

[Quirky]

All you can do is move forward.....and know that your advocacy wasn't a waste of time. His parents needed to hear that what they were doing to their son was painful and wrong.

My guess is that the circ was the trade-off for the home waterbirth and possibly other crunchy choices of the mom. I've seen it a lot, that crunchy mom married to more mainstream dad gets "her" way on the birth, vax choices, co-sleeping, bf'ing, etc. but the more mainstream dad wants to control something and so he puts his foot down and insists on circ.

[Mommy2anangel]

Originally Posted by perspective

Coming from a young circed guy, I will say this. Every single time you try, it makes a difference. Dont ever give up, because it would have made the world of difference if someone like you could have stopped my parents. Also, just knowing someone objected to it would give an unhappy boy some feeling of support.

So although even one "small" victory in a series of defeats may seem like nothing, just one victory results in a lifetime of difference for that man, and maybe even to all the future males in his family.

There are many parts to this movement, what your doing could be considered "the ground war". Although little effort seems like its being made, every person like you together also makes a HUGE difference to the movement as a whole. Your single voice brings the whole intactivist movement charging into the minds of those who hear you. If they disagree with you or not, they now know a differing opinion exists.

So please, know what you do does make a BIG difference, a lifetime of difference. So never give up or feel discouraged.

Thanks for posting this! I have been on the verge of tears the past few days thinking about this baby boy who's mother knew differently and yet went ahead and had him circed.

[Eman'smom]

I try to look big picture and not at the indivdual failures. When and where I was born circ rates were well over 90%, now they are closer to 60 (for that region). Where I live now the numbers are down to 50%, I figure by the time my son has kids hopefully it will be 90% in other way. Change is slow.

[DJay]

There are enough testimonies of men and women who have spoken to others about not circumcising their sons and they have changed their minds.

Over the years, some fathers that I've spoken to did not circumcise their sons because of what I said. Others went ahead and did it anyway. One father was rethinking his decision when his son was six. I happened to mention the subject just a few days before the appointment. .... The appointment was canceled. Dad went on to have two or three more sons who remained intact.

Keep sharing.

If they went to a Mohel for a circumcision, it might have been a matter of faith. Also as a consolation, some mohel circumcisions remove less skin that medical circumcisions do.

[mrsfrenchy]

I just wanted to share that you do make a difference. I'm so grateful that my first child is a girl because if she were a boy, I would likely have had her circ'ed. But because of MDC and this board, if any subsequent kids are boys, they won't be circ'ed. So you guys do make a difference. maybe not every time, but we're getting there.