Sexual aspects

[Zenful]

I feel kind of weird posting about this, but I've been a long-time lurker on MDC and feel this is a safe, receptive place to voice how I'm feeling. Lately I've been not really wanting to nurse my 2.5 yo son and I feel it's largely because it's starting to make me a little uncomfortable. If this had been a few years ago I would have said that I'd have no problem letting my child wean himself, no matter how long it took. Now that he's getting older I almost feel dirty still allowing him to nurse...especially when all he's doing his comfort nursing. I can't quite figure out if it's because I feel like I'm overstepping boundaries or he's overstepping mine...it's kind of confusing. I remember on another parenting forum (a mainstream one) a mom mentioned that she wouldn't let her young infant comfort nurse because it weirded her out, and now I'm doing the same thing. Sure my kid is older, but it's still the same principle. I feel guilty, dirty, weird and I'm here looking for some support and ideas on how to get through this. I'm also a sexual abuse survivor, which I'm sure is compounding the situation. Lately, whenever he nurses I can't wait for it to be over...like I want my body back or something. I used to love nursing him and a part of me still does and would really like for him to be able to nurse for as long as he wants to...but this feelings are only getting worse It seems that the older he gets, the harder it becomes. It doesn't help that most of our society thinks it's weird and disgusting to nurse your kid beyond their infancy. Anyway, excuse the scattered thoughts...this is a really strange situation for me, so please be compassionate and thoughtful in your responses.

[alllyssa]

Let me start by telling you that I have 6 kids and so far they've all nursed until they were at least 3 (except for my 18 month old, of course By the time they were 3 I was starting to hate it too. In fact, I pretty much hate nursing my 3 year old now and hope, hope, hope to wean her very soon. I'm dreading that about as much as nursing her drives me crazy - this is the dilema.

My advice is to stop beating yourself up over this. I think that it is pretty normal to start feeling this way w/ nursing toddlers. Think about the mama dog who just gets up and walks away from her puppies at some point when she has had enough.

Distraction, postponement, not sitting down, letting dad take over with bedtime, falling asleep in the car or stroller for naps, or no naps, etc. have all worked w/my other LO's. Of course, they cry and complain and they want boo-boo's, but mom's feeling matter too. We really aren't doing anyone any favors by getting the willy's nursing our 3 year olds. And we aren't bad mother's for wanting to wean at this point.

Good luck,

[georgia]

First of all, welcome to MDC

Two and a half years is a wonderful achievement!

I would recommend checking out the links here, especially Kathleen Kendall-Tackett's chapter from her book The Hidden Feelings of Motherhood entitled The Long Shadow. She provides some excellent advice, and it's just a fabulous read She talks about making it work for you, and that it's not about martyrdom

but mom's feeling matter too

Totally.

[Zenful]

Originally Posted by georgia

First of all, welcome to MDC

Two and a half years is a wonderful achievement!

I would recommend checking out the links here, especially Kathleen Kendall-Tackett's chapter from her book The Hidden Feelings of Motherhood entitled The Long Shadow. She provides some excellent advice, and it's just a fabulous read She talks about making it work for you, and that it's not about martyrdom



Totally.

Awesome link, Georgia, thank you

[Zenful]

Originally Posted by alllyssa

Let me start by telling you that I have 6 kids and so far they've all nursed until they were at least 3 (except for my 18 month old, of course By the time they were 3 I was starting to hate it too. In fact, I pretty much hate nursing my 3 year old now and hope, hope, hope to wean her very soon. I'm dreading that about as much as nursing her drives me crazy - this is the dilema.

My advice is to stop beating yourself up over this. I think that it is pretty normal to start feeling this way w/ nursing toddlers. Think about the mama dog who just gets up and walks away from her puppies at some point when she has had enough.

Distraction, postponement, not sitting down, letting dad take over with bedtime, falling asleep in the car or stroller for naps, or no naps, etc. have all worked w/my other LO's. Of course, they cry and complain and they want boo-boo's, but mom's feeling matter too. We really aren't doing anyone any favors by getting the willy's nursing our 3 year olds. And we aren't bad mother's for wanting to wean at this point.

Good luck,

I like how you put all of this...very clear and direct, gets straight to the heart of the matter. I was feeling like I'm the only one in the AP community who gets weirded out about nursing a toddler, but it seems I'm not the only one after all. This helps put things into perspective. I'm still going to try to delve deeper into my issues with it because a part of me really does enjoy being there for him in this way still, and he clearly still enjoys it as well. I hear what you're saying, though, and if it can't be overcome then there's no need to guilt-trip myself until the end of time.

[Snapdragon]

I think it is great that you are able to express your feeling and ask for opinions on this. I think that if it is making you uncomfortable then maybe it is time to stop. There is no right or wrong, it is just what works for you. I don't think you need to feel guilty if you had planned on doing child led weaning but now want to wean him. I think you should trust your feelings and not force yourself to do something that makes you uncomfortable. 2.5 years is a good solid amount of time to give him that. If it is making you feel uncomfortable I would say to trust that and do parent led weaning at this point. I wish you the best with this.

[pinky]

One thing to consider before weaning is setting some limits on nursing. I know with both my girls there were points that things started to feel out of balance, and setting limits helped get things back to a place that felt better for me.

And mama, don't beat yourself up if the right thing for your family is to gently wean your 2.5 year old. Especially with your abuse history. Trust your instincts and your ability to navigate this path with your little one.

[Mommyintraining2]

Just thought I'd add that I'm nusing 9 month DD which I enjoy. However, when I let my somewhat weaned 2 year old DD nurse, I get uncomfortable. This was the first morning I suggested she drink from her sippy cup when she asked to nurse. She said OK and I felt so liberated. I definitely feel age has a lot to do with it, at least for me.

[Mama.Pajama]

This is something that I actually had trouble when my son was about 3-6 months old because of the oxytocin. I was feeling "aroused" while nursing, and it really freaked me out. Then I read a section in The Breastfeeding Book by the Sears which dealt specifically with these feelings. I found out that these feelings are totally normal and very common. I loved the way the book worded this: the best way to look at it is to just accept the feelings for what they are as being a positive, albeit complex, part of being a woman.

From what I have read, the feelings you are struggling with now seem totally normal, even for a woman with no history of abuse.

I think it has a lot to do with our cultural conditioning. We feel shame for nursing our older toddlers and children, which we would not feel if our culture did not reinforce and perpetuate this stigma. I think your feelings can be traced back to your shame. If you can completely accept that your shame has absolutely nothing to do with the validity or "health" of your nursing relationship, you will likely be able to shrug your feelings off rather than dwell on them. I think that once your mind starts developing these feelings of shame into "dirtiness" and "perversion," you have officially overanalyzed them. Just take your feelings for what they are worth- they are nothing more than a product of your shame, surely coupled with your "baby" growing up at the breast.

My personal opinion is that you (a general you) would not see anything wrong with your older toddler nursing at your breast if we didn't have a culture that conditioned us to see something wrong with it. This is not to say that you wouldn't be having any struggles in your nursing relationship- this may be a time when you are having to begin setting boundaries and LO is learning to abide.

Now, taking your history into account, this adds another facet to the complexity of your feelings of "dirtiness," or perversion. I have also experienced these feelings- it is really hard to overcome the aforementioned social taboo of extended breastfeeding when you've been the victim of sexual abuse. That being said, it is not impossible to separate that part of yourself from your relationship with your child. When you think about it logically, you can see that your relationship with your LO is a beautiful one and that you desire every closeness- you know that nothing should inhibit that attachment... But when your own innocence has been defiled by someone who you should've been able to trust, this warps your own image of self- later on in life, you find yourself seeing the perpetrator in you. This is commonly experienced by victims of child sexual abuse, and it is a direct result of your abuse, not to mention it's a completely illusory self-image- the perpetrator left his mark on you, and it is hard to bypass it. A common byproduct of this can be, consciously or subconsciously, distancing yourself from your own children. When these feelings are overwhelming, you need to take a step back and recognize that, again, these feelings have nothing to do with your relationship with your child and you must not let them interfere. One must accept the unreality of the false "pervert" self-image: you are not dirty for wanting to provide physical comfort and nurturing to your child.

This all being said, sometimes a mother cannot reasonably cope with these feelings, and in that case, the best option for mother and child would be to gently move toward weaning- there is NO shame in that.

Good luck mama.

[Mommyintraining2]

Originally Posted by Mama.Pajama

This is something that I actually had trouble when my son was about 3-6 months old because of the oxytocin. I was feeling "aroused" while nursing, and it really freaked me out. Then I read a section in The Breastfeeding Book by the Sears which dealt specifically with these feelings. I found out that these feelings are totally normal and very common. I loved the way the book worded this: the best way to look at it is to just accept the feelings for what they are as being a positive, albeit complex, part of being a woman.

From what I have read, the feelings you are struggling with now seem totally normal, even for a woman with no history of abuse.

I think it has a lot to do with our cultural conditioning. We feel shame for nursing our older toddlers and children, which we would not feel if our culture did not reinforce and perpetuate this stigma. I think your feelings can be traced back to your shame. If you can completely accept that your shame has absolutely nothing to do with the validity or "health" of your nursing relationship, you will likely be able to shrug your feelings off rather than dwell on them. I think that once your mind starts developing these feelings of shame into "dirtiness" and "perversion," you have officially overanalyzed them. Just take your feelings for what they are worth- they are nothing more than a product of your shame, surely coupled with your "baby" growing up at the breast.

My personal opinion is that you (a general you) would not see anything wrong with your older toddler nursing at your breast if we didn't have a culture that conditioned us to see something wrong with it. This is not to say that you wouldn't be having any struggles in your nursing relationship- this may be a time when you are having to begin setting boundaries and LO is learning to abide.

Now, taking your history into account, this adds another facet to the complexity of your feelings of "dirtiness," or perversion. I have also experienced these feelings- it is really hard to overcome the aforementioned social taboo of extended breastfeeding when you've been the victim of sexual abuse. That being said, it is not impossible to separate that part of yourself from your relationship with your child. When you think about it logically, you can see that your relationship with your LO is a beautiful one and that you desire every closeness- you know that nothing should inhibit that attachment... But when your own innocence has been defiled by someone who you should've been able to trust, this warps your own image of self- later on in life, you find yourself seeing the perpetrator in you. This is commonly experienced by victims of child sexual abuse, and it is a direct result of your abuse, not to mention it's a completely illusory self-image- the perpetrator left his mark on you, and it is hard to bypass it. A common byproduct of this can be, consciously or subconsciously, distancing yourself from your own children. When these feelings are overwhelming, you need to take a step back and recognize that, again, these feelings have nothing to do with your relationship with your child and you must not let them interfere. One must accept the unreality of the false "pervert" self-image: you are not dirty for wanting to provide physical comfort and nurturing to your child.

This all being said, sometimes a mother cannot reasonably cope with these feelings, and in that case, the best option for mother and child would be to gently move toward weaning- there is NO shame in that.

Good luck mama.

Hi Mama.pajama,

You sound very knowledgeable on this. Can you recommend any books to read to learn more? I'd love to do some research.

[Zenful]

Originally Posted by Mama.Pajama

This is something that I actually had trouble when my son was about 3-6 months old because of the oxytocin. I was feeling "aroused" while nursing, and it really freaked me out. Then I read a section in The Breastfeeding Book by the Sears which dealt specifically with these feelings. I found out that these feelings are totally normal and very common. I loved the way the book worded this: the best way to look at it is to just accept the feelings for what they are as being a positive, albeit complex, part of being a woman.

From what I have read, the feelings you are struggling with now seem totally normal, even for a woman with no history of abuse.

I think it has a lot to do with our cultural conditioning. We feel shame for nursing our older toddlers and children, which we would not feel if our culture did not reinforce and perpetuate this stigma. I think your feelings can be traced back to your shame. If you can completely accept that your shame has absolutely nothing to do with the validity or "health" of your nursing relationship, you will likely be able to shrug your feelings off rather than dwell on them. I think that once your mind starts developing these feelings of shame into "dirtiness" and "perversion," you have officially overanalyzed them. Just take your feelings for what they are worth- they are nothing more than a product of your shame, surely coupled with your "baby" growing up at the breast.

My personal opinion is that you (a general you) would not see anything wrong with your older toddler nursing at your breast if we didn't have a culture that conditioned us to see something wrong with it. This is not to say that you wouldn't be having any struggles in your nursing relationship- this may be a time when you are having to begin setting boundaries and LO is learning to abide.

Now, taking your history into account, this adds another facet to the complexity of your feelings of "dirtiness," or perversion. I have also experienced these feelings- it is really hard to overcome the aforementioned social taboo of extended breastfeeding when you've been the victim of sexual abuse. That being said, it is not impossible to separate that part of yourself from your relationship with your child. When you think about it logically, you can see that your relationship with your LO is a beautiful one and that you desire every closeness- you know that nothing should inhibit that attachment... But when your own innocence has been defiled by someone who you should've been able to trust, this warps your own image of self- later on in life, you find yourself seeing the perpetrator in you. This is commonly experienced by victims of child sexual abuse, and it is a direct result of your abuse, not to mention it's a completely illusory self-image- the perpetrator left his mark on you, and it is hard to bypass it. A common byproduct of this can be, consciously or subconsciously, distancing yourself from your own children. When these feelings are overwhelming, you need to take a step back and recognize that, again, these feelings have nothing to do with your relationship with your child and you must not let them interfere. One must accept the unreality of the false "pervert" self-image: you are not dirty for wanting to provide physical comfort and nurturing to your child.

This all being said, sometimes a mother cannot reasonably cope with these feelings, and in that case, the best option for mother and child would be to gently move toward weaning- there is NO shame in that.

Good luck mama.

Yeah, all of this makes perfect sense to me. I'm going to reflect on this further and see if it helps...it certainly feels like there's a good possibility it will help quite a bit Also, yesterday after posting this, I noticed that I don't have those same feelings when I'm sitting in a chair nursing him...only when we're lying down (I was sexually abused lying down), so your words make even more sense to me now. Thank you!

[PJJ]

context

Would you consider thinking of it as helping him to become independent as a person, and not the opposite like the American culture perceives it, and as how messed up the culture continues to think that breastfeeding is sexual?

Good luck mama!

[juliebird]

Not much to add, so many have already said some really helpful things...but I wanted to add a word of encouragement to the OP. How amazing that you are doing the RIGHT thing for your LO even though as a child you were not treasured as the sweet, innocent child you were. I'm so sorry that you had to go through what you went through but wow! you are breaking that cycle!

I'm nursing a 2.5 year old and whenever I question it, I think back to an article that I read a loooong time ago (don't know if I could find it again-sorry) written by adults who were breastfed long enough that they remember it. And their memories were so beautiful of the comfort, warmth and feeling of rightness that came with nursing. Nothing sexual about it, just good, appropriate intimacy that was so profound they remembered it until adulthood. it was very moving.

HTH
wish you the best

[tracymom1]

No advice to add as I feel the other posts have articulated wonderful responses already - just wanted to say what a great job you are doing with your LO and how amazing it is you were brave enough to reach out for advice with this issue.
and Welcome!

[Juvysen]

I've been there, too.

With my first, it was around when she was 15 months or so, but I was pregnant and thought it might have had to do with pregnancy hormones. It freaked me out, and totally gave me the willies. I would have visions of shoving her off of me and have to tap my foot or do something else to get my mind off of her nursing As I said, I blamed it on the pregnancy... it got worse when her brother was born when she was 18months old. And worse. And worse... until he was 3 months old or so, when it backed off, but I still had, I dunno, the memory of those feelings (?) whenever I nursed her. I get so sad, because I feel like it ruined my relationship with my daughter to some extent, and that I robbed her of her babyhood. She kept nursing (pretty much only when she got hurt and needed comfort - like twice a day? and I'd usually not let her nurse for very long before I freaked) until she was 2 1/2. Now my DS is almost 2 and I have those very same feelings. It was a little shocking to me, because I had thought it was related to the pregnancy, before, but I'm not pregnant this time and it's still there (though not as bad).

It's so hard to have negative feelings about your little one while you're doing something that's so beautiful and loving, you know?

FWIW, I have no history of abuse.

ETA... I always described the feelings as... like, if a stranger walked up to you and grabbed your nipple or something... I dunno - just really invasive or something? Maybe yours isn't the same...

[haleyelianasmom]

I was there. It started around 2.5 as well. She weaned at 3 (on her 3rd birthday, to be exact! Her doing, not mine). I know moms who never felt this way and nursed until 5 or 6 or 7... I actually felt bad that I was having negative feelings when she was nursing. it just got very uncomfortable for me physically so I started limiting her sessions. Near the end, it was "nurse to 10" and she'd nurse until I counted to 10, then she'd be done. I think it is part of a mutual weaning. While I limited her sessions to what I could physically handle, she cut down to 3x a day, then 2x a day, then 1x a day, then every other day, then 2x a week, and finally she nursed on her 3rd birthday and didn't ask again for like 3 weeks. When she asked I said "oh I thought you weaned!" she said 'I didn't wean!" so I said okay, but she didn't latch on and announced "I weaned". Maybe she just wanted to see if it was still available or something

I spoke to a mother few months ago who has kids who are teenagers, but she said this very thing. She said she attended LLL, and got the feeling that moms were supposed to do nothing and let the weaning be 100% the child, but she also started feeling uncomfortable for all of her kids at a certain point and that started the weaning process. Animals walk away from their young to get the weaning process going, I guess it can happen to everyone.

Take care, I know how frustrating it can be, especially when you had wanted to let the child nurse on for much longer, but honor your body and your own personal limits. You can also come up with some alternatives. For us, dd would sometimes "lay on the nursies" or do "belly to belly" so she would get the snuggles and skin-to-skin contact without nursing.

[Maela]

I am going through this right now too. It started about a month ago (Dd was 22 months). I am pregnant, so I am hoping that it has a lot to do with that because I have read that it is common during pregnancy. I do have a history of some abuse, but bfing has never bugged me until now. I never planned to do CLWing (just not for us), but I was planning on letting her nurse until 3yo if that's what she wanted. Now I plan on gently weaning her in a month at 2yo. It makes me a little sad, but I have a feeling that we will have a better relationship if we wean than if we don't.
Not saying that is the answer for you, but good for you for making it to 2.5yo! I hope you find peace in whatever you decide is best for you and your family.

Originally Posted by Zenful

Yeah, all of this makes perfect sense to me. I'm going to reflect on this further and see if it helps...it certainly feels like there's a good possibility it will help quite a bit Also, yesterday after posting this, I noticed that I don't have those same feelings when I'm sitting in a chair nursing him...only when we're lying down (I was sexually abused lying down), so your words make even more sense to me now. Thank you!

Bolding mine I feel the same way! Nursing sitting up with Dd in my arms is not so bad, but lying down is what really bothers me.

Originally Posted by Juvysen

ETA... I always described the feelings as... like, if a stranger walked up to you and grabbed your nipple or something... I dunno - just really invasive or something? Maybe yours isn't the same...

This is exactly how I describe the feeling - like if a stranger came up to me and demanded to nurse. Yuck.

[sg784]

I found this thread on a search--hopeully some o you are subscribed and feel like talking about this again?

So much of what has been described is how Im feeling. I am so touched out. Its making my skin crawl and I want to throw my toddler off me, I cant stand it. It started when I was pregnant with DD and I was nursing DS. Its worse soem times than others, but I feel so invaded so skeeved out, so uncomfortable so freaking DISGUSTING. I cant stand IT ONE SECOND LONGER.

If I think he's going to go to sleep or stop crying, or somehow Im going to "get something out of it" its not as bad to just suffer and wait till its over and he's done. Lately he will ask to nurse and take a nap and i'll give in, but then he wont sleep and I feel manipulated and used and ABUSED. But from his perspective, he has just figured out what he has to say to get me to nurse. And it gives me such F^%&'d up feelings, like I could RAGE out and explode out of my skin. I cant describe it.

What do you do? What works? This has got to stop. Its making me crazy. :i rked

I dont get ANY of these feelings while nursing 5 mo old DD.

[Juvysen]

What I ended up doing was seriously limiting the nursing time - like saying "ok, but just for a minute" and then I'd count down from ten and then pull her off. She was really angry at first, but got used to how it worked... and it was better than imagining bashing my todder I also got good at distracting her with something *really fun* - like finger painting or something else that she liked to do... and I offered water or food or whatever first. I mean, it was basically straight up weaning, but it took us like a year to wean, so it was sort of maybe a slow-ish gentle weaning?

I didn't get those feelings from the newborn/smaller babe, either.