Babies can't feel pain - Page 3

[mamatoablessing]

Originally Posted by HarperRose

Lobsters scream. They sound like a little girl. I'm not kidding. I worked in a groc store w/ a lobster tank and one day one of the guys had to take the lobsters out because they were fighting each other. The ones out of the tank were screaming. (They weren't out terribly long, just long enough to break up the fight and separate them.) I was a good 15 ft from where the lobsters were and it sounded like a child nearby. It was freaky.

My little son (19 mos) recently had to undergo a procedure in the OR of our local Children's Hospital. He'd swallowed a NICKEL and was actively choking. (Breathing was ok, but obviously it could not stay there!) They had to put him under w/ gas & an IV in order to scope him and get the coin out. They did not stick him w/ the IV until he was out from the gas.

My older son (9 yrs) had a surgery a few weeks ago and it was the same for him. He was medicated, then gassed, then stuck w/ the IV.

I am so glad they knocked them out before beginning their procedures. I am horrified thinking of the injustices little children have suffered over the years (and continue to suffer, i.e.; CIO. scheduled feeding, etc).

While I 100% agree that it's a crazy notion that babies or animals don't feel pain, I do have to correct you on the lobster screaming.

Lobsters don't have vocal cords—they use pheromones to communicate. Wallace dispelled the myth that lobsters scream when they are boiled alive. He said, "The sound is really vented steam from the layer of seawater between the lobster's flesh and its carapace …." He noted that "the myth's very persistent—which might, once again, point to a low-level cultural unease about the boiling thing."

http://www.lobsterlib.com/feat/davidwallace/boiled.asp

[HarperRose]

Originally Posted by mamatoablessing

While I 100% agree that it's a crazy notion that babies or animals don't feel pain, I do have to correct you on the lobster screaming.

Ewww! That's freaky too!!

Thanks for the info, though. I did not know that!

[HarperRose]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

My new baby girl

CONGRATS!!!! :

got a heel stick for PKU test yesterday. The nurse told dh that it "didn't hurt", while dd2 screamed in pain. He said, "umm...she's screaming", and was assured that it just "wasn't comfortable".

The community, as a whole, might realize the facts...but the debate isn't completely over.

Idiocy.

[MelKnee]

And doctors wonder why they aren't trusted.

When my ds was 3 hours old, I had to clip his fingernails because he was scratching me. When I got to his thumb, I clipped his skin. He bled and he screamed. Anyone with one iota of sense could figure out that babies feel pain.

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by seriosa

This spring my son got kicked hard in the ankle during a soccer match. He reacted badly enough that we took him to the ER fearing something was broken. The ped. there confirmed it was just a bruise but he offered this comment: young children tend to have a lower pain threshold than adults in response to the same physical stimulus because they have less general experience of pain against which to compare the single subjective event.

Anyway, this reminds me of the scientist (don't remember the name) who experimented with baby rhesus monkeys to prove that a soft cuddly mother is preferable to a cold unfriendly one.

Thank god for science!:

There is actually a lot of research showing that both in animals and humans, earlier experiences of pain strongly affect how we perceive current pain.

It tends to discredit what the doctor told you though - earlier experiences of pain in children and young animals often increase perception of pain felt.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by HarperRose

CONGRATS!!!! :

Thank you. We're all thrilled. Jenna is happy and healthy as can be. The c/s sucked, but less than any of my other ones. And, she slept almost 6 hours straight last night, which was a bonus I never anticipated! We got very little sleep the two nights at the hospital (Jenna had a lot of mucous that didn't clear, so she couldn't breastfeed very well, and we had a "latch, break, clear mucous, latch, break, etc." cycle going on), so last night put me back on track...just normal sleep deprivation now. We're truly blessed.

[Ruthla]

Congrats on the new baby!

I think it's time to update your signature (or are you waiting until after MDC is finished changing the siggie software stuff?)

[seriosa]

Originally Posted by Bluegoat

There is actually a lot of research showing that both in animals and humans, earlier experiences of pain strongly affect how we perceive current pain.

It tends to discredit what the doctor told you though - earlier experiences of pain in children and young animals often increase perception of pain felt.

Sorry, I probably was incorrect in rendering the idea of what the doctor said (translated). Which was that for a similar trauma a child will hurt more because, having been bruised and not broken for example in this case, the bruise is comparable only to the previous experience of no pain, therefore is more strongly felt. An adult who has experienced, even only cognitively, a wider variety of hurts can better place them in context. I think this is probably a separate concept from the notion that anticipation of pain will increase its intensity.

[greeneyedmama]

My grandmother told me about the open-heart surgery thing, she remembers arguing with her sister in the 70's about it becuause a baby they knew was undergoing it. She had the common sense to know babies could feel pain and was horrified.

[EdnaMarie]

Originally Posted by MtBikeLover

This is pretty offensive. There are people on here that think vaxing is ok and to say that we don't think babies are persons is totally rude. I did vax my kids and I would do it again in a hearbeat. And I can promise you that I absolutely think they are people.

Me too.

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by seriosa

Sorry, I probably was incorrect in rendering the idea of what the doctor said (translated). Which was that for a similar trauma a child will hurt more because, having been bruised and not broken for example in this case, the bruise is comparable only to the previous experience of no pain, therefore is more strongly felt. An adult who has experienced, even only cognitively, a wider variety of hurts can better place them in context. I think this is probably a separate concept from the notion that anticipation of pain will increase its intensity.

Yes, i think it's different than anticipation, but that's not what I was thinking of. The studies I was thinking of involve babies and young animals who had painful experiences before being able to form memories - sugery, or other kids of trauma.Later in life, they register pain more intensly than a similar person or animal that did not have such an experience. Of course with animals who can't speak, they have to use methods to try to determine their perception of pain, which can be tricky. I believe they look at stress indicators and brain chemistry and such, like they do for babies.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Congrats on the new baby!

I think it's time to update your signature (or are you waiting until after MDC is finished changing the siggie software stuff?)

I was going to wait, but I may not even save my siggie, so I think I'll update. It's going to be strange typing "dd1" and "dd2" from now on!

[aniT]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

I was going to wait, but I may not even save my siggie, so I think I'll update. It's going to be strange typing "dd1" and "dd2" from now on!

I had a very hard time when my son was born. I was forever saying the "girls." Then I was calling my youngest daughter my youngest daughter and thought I had to stop calling her that becuase she wasn't my youngest anymore when I realized that she was still my youngest daughter.

Congrats on the new babe!