Are there families that should not unschool?

[chase_mommy]

Not trying to start a battle here, just looking for others opinions on the matter. Are there families who should NOT unschool? I love Unschooling, I love introducing people to the idea of it. I have always thought it is a fabulous doable lifestyle for anyone who wants it until recently...

Lets say I know a woman who is in a not so great place in her life and wants to unschool her kids. She never heard of unschooling until she met us. I recommended some books for her to read but she is looking at me for guidance. I am really not wanting to give it, I feel in my heart those kids will be better off in school. So, am I in the wrong here? Are there circumstances where USing isn't a good thing? If there are those not so great circumstances and if you came across them what do yo do? Turn your head, pretend you didn't see and mind your own because it isn't your family?

Any thoughts?

[Juvysen]

I dunno, but I'm interested in hearing what others have to say.

My first thought would be, well, yes... some things work better for some people than other things... but, I dunno.

I guess I can imagine a situation in which a home is not a good choice for unschooling... like the children might not be helped (to meet their needs) when they do have interests in reading or something... but ... presumably those children would still learn a lot from life, just maybe not have as much access to books and things? I dunno.

[joy_seeker]

There is a quote that I can't find right now about John Holt- to paraphrase it says that Holt was fascinated by children and truly cared about their personal wants and needs. So all of his writings, observations, findings are based on what he saw when children interacted with an involved and caring adult (himself). He could have come to a completely different conclusion if this were not the case. Based on that and some RL experiences I think unschooling is a great choice for all children but not for all families if that makes sense. I've seen a few (VERY small minority) of unschoolers refuse to help their kids or ignore them to the point that the kids no longer ask for help. IMO those families don't really get it but I don't know that their kids would be better off in school either. That's their path and I try (emphasis on try) not to judge and just do things for us that work for us.

As for what I would do if someone was looking to me for guidance- I'd share that exact sentiment with them, that unschooling requires a lot of support and loving interaction but on the child's terms. I'd be an example of a mom who values her children who gives them space when they need it but is also there to facilitate and guide them when needed. I woldn't discourage her if I were asked for help but I would try to gently let her know what it entails.

[greenthumb3]

Yes.

The people who don't want to unschool should not unschool.

Not an exhaustive list but a good starting place, even if they have done research, talk with spouse or partner about it, etc.

As far as guiding someone in their educational choices (also goes for homebirth, breastfeeding, attachment parenting, etc), one of the best things someone ever told me in that area is to:

If they ask:
Provide the resources for them to answer their own question(book, mag, net)
Offer the opportunity to "see it in action" (visit my homeschool group)
When they ask questions, rephrase it and have them answer it themselves.
Offer them the empowering statement:
"This really works well for us, but everyone needs to make the decision that is right for their family."

It helps to detach ourselves from what that person chooses. Not always easy, but they need to know they can be trusted to make the choices that work best for them and they will be happier and more satisfied when the decision is made that it is there's.

It's a good hypothetical Q, but I find IRL, knowing whether unschool would actually work for someone or not is a very personal decision and sometimes based on factors we are not aware of.

[tinyblackdot]

I dont think US is best for most people IMO. I think that you have to have a passion for your children and a passion ofr life and what it has to offer to US. And you need to be mentally healthy and pretty organized and disciplined to US, and unfortunately a lot of parents are not any of those things.

I think that when you look at the world different people see different things, some (like us) want to teach our children to get more out of life, to be morally responsible, and educated to the best of the mental capacity, to respect themselves and what is around them and to enjoy life/art/music. But some people just want their children to have money, or to be the dominate human, or to reach success at any cost, or just to survive. And those types of people should not US.

I dont want to leave a mother who spends most of their time trying to get rid of their children to go party or who thinks life strategies like stealing and lying should be top teaching priority, to teach their child. I think US would be completely unfair to those children.

[Callimom]

Yes I think there are parents who aren't in a healthy place and shouldn't be unschooling.
And I think there are kids who need more structure/guidance/input than what is typically considered appropriate in unschooling (especially RU) circles.
I think it takes a very mindful parent who is truly able to see past the labels and definitions of unschooling to address the children's needs - both conscious and unspoken to make unschooling work.

[Dar]

I think there are many types of families who shouldn't homeschool. Parents who have very strong ideas about what children need to learn and/or when they need to learn it, for example. Families in which both parents value their WOH careers,
perhaps - it can be done, but it's harder and requires compromises, I think.

Some children prefer school - I have a friend who has three daughters, with 7 year age gaps, and the youngest decided to go to school during her elementary years and as truly flourished there - she graduated last month. The other two were happy unchoolers. Some might argue that she was unschooling all of those years because it was always her choice to be there, but I don't agree.

Really, I think it comes down to the goals families have for their members. I don't think one thing works for every family. I think talking about unschooling is important because a lot of people aren't even aware that it's an option, but I wouldn't assume that most people would eventually choose to unschool.

[no5no5]

I think it takes a lot to unschool (not that I am an expert, as my DD is only 3). I think you need, at a minimum, time, patience, respect, curiosity, and willingness. Many, many families (most families?) lack at least one of these essentials.

I know I personally am thrilled that my DN will be in preschool soon. He is currently at home all day with his grandmother, and she has absolutely no interest in interacting with him. He is ignored ALL of the time. I can't imagine this family unschooling. In addition to having no willingness, or time, his parents do not seem to respect him as a person. They do not listen to him or talk to him, other than to tell him what to do and what not to do. They do not have the patience to deal with children in any way other than distracting them so that they will stay out of their hair. And they do not have a curiosity about the world that makes them interested in learning or sharing with their children.

I guess after all of that, that I should say that I think they are perfectly fine parents and DN is certainly not neglected (at least not in a legal sense). They love their kids. Sadly, they are pretty standard American, I think.

That said, these parents would NEVER be willing to unschool. I think if parents do express an interest, it says a lot about the likelihood of their success.

[Collinsky]

I would think that people who aren't able/willing to understand or respond to their child's interests, feelings, responses probably should not.

People who are physically or emotionally abusive, and people who have substance abuse issues that interfere with their parenting -- their children should be in school.

I know a woman who is homeschooling her only child. They are doing a school-at-home program and every fear she has about failure is projected on to him... she micromanages everything that he does and becomes really stressed about any mistake he makes, and she nags and uses guilt and coercion, and is hypercritical. School is NOT fun for them. In addition, as a minor point, they live in a fairly rural area, and she doesn't drive (and dad works third shift) - so they have little access to homeschool groups or outside activities. I love this family dearly, but it's obvious that their current situation doesn't bring any of them joy. I do think that this boy might do better in public school. Probably not academically, but certainly socially and emotionally. That's just one example I can think of from my personal experience.

[cuttiebearmom]

Originally Posted by greenthumb3

Yes.

The people who don't want to unschool should not unschool.

I love this - I agree wholeheartedly! It is a path that some of us still are learning - I would not have recommended unschooling to myself 2 years ago to be honest. Exploration of myself, my kids, and a variety of different learning paths are leading us in this direction, slowly....

[umbrella]

That's funny, that I've not thought of that in terms of unschooling, but I have encountered certain families considering homeschooling, and when I hear their school-at-home plans, and think of their collective personalities, I sometimes think, "maybe you should just use schools."

[darcytrue]

Originally Posted by Collinsky

I would think that people who aren't able/willing to understand or respond to their child's interests, feelings, responses probably should not.

I agree and disagree with this. I homeschool my children and I understand them and can respond to their interests and feelings. I don't, however, have the time to get really deep in to exploring with them through frequent visits to museums, parks and other places outside the home. We have done museums on the weekends, but that's really the only time we can go. We barely have time for our homeschool co-op each week and other classes. So I know I know unschooling wouldn't work right now for us. I've actually considered US this coming year but decided against it because I don't have enough time to do what other US families I see are able to do with their children.

I also know I'm not cut out to send my children to a school either. BT/DT and it didn't work. I would get too involved and had too many issues with how things were done in school once I got in there and saw what went on each day. So homeschooling works fine for us right now.

I WAH and have to arrange school time with my youngest (7) around my work day. We also have to save on gas since DH and I are both self-employed and winters are rough for us so we save up. We live in the country, definitely not within walking distance of anything but trees and long winding roads. So we have to be very selective when making dates to go places outside the home, so field trips are very limited. I wish we had more time to really delve in to the things my children are interested in but usually we can't, at least not beyond books, movies, research done on the internet or what can be done in our own back yard or kitchen (and we do a lot in those places, especially the yard and kitchen).

[annakiss]

I think you give the information as it's requested and you do it without judgment. Ultimately, it's her call. If her life really is a mess, then she'll find out soon enough that it won't work or she can't handle it. Unless the kids are abused or neglected, is it really anyone who is no the parent's decision what happens? I dunno, I guess say what you think in as gentle a way as possible, but allow for the fact that your advice may go unheeded.

I sort of have trouble sometimes walking the line between wanting the best for everyone and understanding that my idea of best might not be the right thing for everyone.

[Ruthla]

I can think of the kind of situation where a child is better off in school- if there's abuse or neglect at home, if the parent(s) are facing health issues (mental or otherwise) and don't really have the energy or focus for the child's needs. This could be because the child has exceptional needs, because the parent is "less capable than usual" of meeting "normal" needs, or a combination of the two.

As far as the "school at home" vs "unschooling" argument- that's a lot more complex. Once the child is at home and learning, there's a whole lot of gray area. Some parents are too uptight to consider unschooling, and structured learning at home can be a good fit for those families. Sometimes one parent wants to unschool, the other wants to "see academic progress", and utilizing a curriculum can make the whole homeschooling process go more smoothly for the whole family.

Then you have the families who use curriculums, but put their own spin on it, or dont' use a curriculum but ther's a lot of parent-led learning going on, and we could argue forever about whether or not each of those cases is truly "unschooling." If the kids are thriving, who cares what the label is?

As for the one family you're concerned about, why not share your concerns with her? If you think these kids would be better off in school, I'd gently tell her that. It's possible that she's in love with the idea of unschooling even though she has many internal doubts, and possibly is hearing from many others that she shouldn't, but really wants to do this and sees you as some kind of mentor. If you share your concerns with her (specific concerns, not just vague "I think the kids would do better in school.") she may reconsider. Especially if she just wants you to tell her what to do, and seems unwilling to read any books, it seems you need to tell her what you think.

[chase_mommy]

Thanks for everyone's replies.

So here is the deal with this friend. My disclaimer: She is a really sweet, wants to please 'you' kind of person. She has never done anything to *me* to be upset with her.

Ok, I am going to call this friend J. J has bad health problems and is on A LOT of pain meds and anti-anxiety meds. She does have a habit of not making it to pick her kids up from school because she is hung up at a store and has to have her mom go and get them. If she is to busy, she isn't going to stop and go get her kids. She has told me a few stories about how her husband has punched his son in the face (not her son), grabbed her son by the throat, calls them names and her son who is on the spectrum has told me about 'dad biting him on the back'. When I confronted her on all this she seemed really concerned when I let her know how bad these things are. However, she never does anything about it. CPS has been in the house. The school has called them. Her children do have case workers who visit weekly. I have thought about calling them (CPS) myself but then again they have and are already investigating but nothing happens. The other day I did tell her that her children are being physically and mentally abused and every day she stays with her husband she is allowing them to be abused. He is ruining her children's lives and she is letting him. Once again, she is really upset and is going to do something but then nothing happens. When I express my concern again in a more aggressive manor telling her that I am aware of the situation and now I am letting her children being abused she tells me that she can be sensitive and maybe she has overreacted or exaggerated a bit on her stories. So, is she looking for attention? Covering up for an abusive husband because she doesn't want to be a single mom? I don't know. I have been to her house, I have removed a butcher knife from her 7 year olds hand, he was going to 'teach is brother a lesson'. I have heard all the yelling that goes on, I have seen the way her children beat up on each other and she just comforts the one who is hurt. Needless to say, this is not a good situation. My son is terrified of them and I am distancing myself from her. She has had problems with her children in school. She has told me it would just be easier to let them stay at home and do their own thing. I don't think she would offer the help/guidance to them when needed. The kids do not need to be home with dad and she isn't always in the best state of mind.

So, thats the situation in a nut shell. A huge mess. Like I said, I have been distancing myself for her. I can not handle all of that and my heart hurts for her kids. I see the way they live, how she yells and lord knows what else. I just can't convince my mouth to open and give her much advice on unschooling because I whole heartedly feel its the wrong thing to do. I am sure she would do it (US) if she could figure the legalities out, thats what she needs me for but I can't give that up. I keep telling her I don't know and such.

I don't know what I am looking for here. Maybe just to vent because I am so stressed over this or possibly I am looking for reassurance that I am doing the right thing. Am I doing the right thing here? Should I call CPS? Should I just run and not look back. She just thinks that unschooling is easier than 'taking care' of her kids. She just doesn't get it.

[cloudswinger]

Yes, you are doing the right thing. That type of situation is what gives homeschooling a bad reputation. Abusive/neglectful parents and uncontrolled(knives?!) children. If CPS is already involved, I seriously doubt that they'd agree to homeschooling for this situation. And if I were the caseworker, I'd recommend against it. She's passive, he's aggressive, they all need professional help. Your child doesn't need to deal with it. Tell her once CPS is involved, any alternative schooling will have to be authorized by them. I'm not really sure that's true, but since she's not bothering to do her own research, it'll get you off the hook. You could, if you can deal with it, make a welcome home for the kids, maybe one at a time, and be a role model to them. Maybe you can be like an auntie figure. Your house, your rules.

[Dar]

It sound like she doesn't plan to unschool her kids, but to neglect them. That's not okay.

[CariOfOz]

Wow. I've been hs'ing for 2yrs.. and am brand new to the unschooling world. That being said I would hope someone with that kind of life situation wouldn't homeschool, let alone unschool. If they are being abused they need to be out of that environment at least that many hours a day until they can be out of that environment completely.

Me? I'd make the call, only because you know how blantantly mistreated those children are What a sad situation for your friend to be in, but even moreso for her children (or his children).

[no5no5]

I would call CPS. Even if they are already involved, they may not know the facts that you do. And if you didn't call and something happened...well, we all know you'd regret it. It's simple and it's anonymous.

[shoefairy3]

I'd call too. And keep calling. That man should never ever lay a finger on his children.