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Swine Flu and Mandatory Vax

post #1 of 57
Thread Starter 
I've been doing some research while creating a short web page about the swine flu vaccine. Some of you (or most of you) may already know this stuff but I wanted to come here and share anyway.

The mandatory vax question is a big one when it comes to pandemic flu. Many states have it written into their emergency pandemic plans that they can order mandatory vaccination or quarantine in the event of a pandemic.

Fortunately, right now the states and federal government acknowledge that even though it is legally possible for them to take this action-- there are simply not enough vaccines available. The HHS has been pouring billions into contracts with Vax companies to find a way to make vaccines that can be stored long-term and produced in much larger quantities.

Here is a link to The Homeland Security Dept's project info: http://www.globalsecurity.org/securi...cines_ch2.html

As you are all probably aware, the ultimate goal is to have stockpiled 300 million vaccines of whatever sort so that ALL AMERICANS can be vaccinated in case of a bioterrorism act or global pandemic.

The article in the above link specifically states "if an influenza pandemic were to occur, the FDA could permit the use of unlicensed adjuvanted vaccines even if they had not completed the full cycle of clinical trials."

Yikes!

Okay... so now a company calling themselves "VaxInnate" comes out with an announcement that they are well on their way to creating a vaccine that CAN be produced and stored en masse.

Here's the link to that announcement: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/154497.php

This is terrifying. Plenty of people seem to have a casual attitude about the swine flu NOW (yeah... wait till the Vaxes come out and the media gets everyone panicking again)-- but imagine if the gov't really does get its hands on the stockpiles they're interested in and have them ready and available AS SOON AS PANIC BREAKS OUT.

It really looks like that's where we're headed...

The technology being spurred by this pandemic thing is going to enable the mandatory vax thing to be a true possibility in the future.

Here's a list of state emergency plans.
http://www.pandemicflu.gov/plan/states/stateplans.html
post #2 of 57
What kind of quarantine conditions are we talking about here? House arrest? Rounded up into a sports dome or something? What? I wouldn't mind my family being quarantined as long as it wasn't bad conditions. My biggest fear would be that though officially we had that option, whoever was handling our case would try to deny us that and hold us down and inject us or something.
post #3 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieCatheryn View Post
What kind of quarantine conditions are we talking about here? House arrest? Rounded up into a sports dome or something? What? I wouldn't mind my family being quarantined as long as it wasn't bad conditions. My biggest fear would be that though officially we had that option, whoever was handling our case would try to deny us that and hold us down and inject us or something.
I think it depends on the state. I believe it was Arizona or Arkansas where I read the provision for mandatory vax would include a religious exemption but quarantine may be necessary.
They didn't specify but I imagine it would be in-home quarantine because putting people together in quarantine doesn't really seem like quarantine to me, at least not when it comes to disease.

Other states don't even specify whether there is a religious exemption in place though I think most would include it. How would that exemption be obtained, though? Would we need it beforehand otherwise submit to vaccines? Who knows?

All of this stuff will probably be more fleshed out in the coming months and years and I think we need to be active in asking these questions as things come up-- and continue to monitor the plans for our states.

As far as I know, most of the state plans have only been active since Bush's '04 Project Bioshield.
post #4 of 57
thank you for this info. it makes me kind of sick....
post #5 of 57
Odd how there are no protocols for handling vaccine reactions.
post #6 of 57
SS834,

Do you have any specific suggestions for people in the event that this scenerio comes to play?
post #7 of 57
Great blog! Thanks also for the links to states. I looked up mine (PA) and at 54 pages thats a lot to read! I scrolled down and read all of the phase 6 plans but still couldn't find out about how it would work for mandatory vaxes. What should I be looking for exactly? I was looking for whether religious exemptions would be allowed. Couldn't see anything referring to it.
post #8 of 57
Thread Starter 
As far as specific suggestions, I honestly don't think we will have to worry about forced vax this time around (h1n1, and the next 2-3 years or so). The public is just not convinced that this is something to worry about. What they're probably going to be working on will be something similar to the seasonal flu vaxes-- something where they "guess" the next big epidemic and create a huge stash of vaccines, then whenever there is any suggestion of a pandemic starting they'll start their vax programs in the early stages.

I think it's important to note that the states where I did read provisions for mandatory vax included notes stating that it would be implemented as a final option. I believe this is partially because it is not feasible *now* to make that order, also because if they tried to issue mandatory vax they'd have a lot on their hands (ppl think children's vaxes are good and important, but for some reason they question getting vaxes themselves).

Most likely, vaccination would be a voluntary thing up until it was cheap enough and easy enough to get most people vaxed. Unless there is some sort of functional system in place to round people up and inject them.
Not only would they have to deal with injury liability, but the gov would have to assume financial responsibility for the program because more than a few people would be unable or unwilling to pay for mandated vaccinations.

My real suggestions are just to keep an eye on things. Some states I believe are much closer to others in being able to make this kind of thing happen. Infrastructure, political attitudes in that area, powers that the state already has... those will all factor in.

As with other things, people who receive gov't assistance, including public school, are most vulnerable in these situations. Strong-arm tactics could be used to withhold necessities without vax.
If you are more self-sufficient, it would require something akin to the Nat'l Guard coming out to your house and holding you down and injecting you and that *seems* really far-fetched right now.

Okay-- the other question about what to look for in specific state documents, if its a .pdf file there should be a section about vaccines where you would find this information.

I'm in Louisiana and have found no mention of mandatory vaccinations for my state, just a brief discussion about distribution (medical and security personnel first). It varies as to whether and where states may include it. There is no standardized plan for states to follow so it is all according to how they choose to organize it.

I havent looked at all the states and am far from being able to do that. If you want to tell me where you live I can take a look at it for you. Or you can call the dept of health, but they may not know what to tell you honestly-- I've encountered more than a few gov't workers who have no idea about laws and plans and even regular procedures for their own offices...
post #9 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by miriam View Post
Odd how there are no protocols for handling vaccine reactions.
I think the protocol goes something like this, "oops".
post #10 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristiaz View Post
I think the protocol goes something like this, "oops".
lmao
post #11 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by miriam View Post
Odd how there are no protocols for handling vaccine reactions.
miriam, there are no vaccine reactions! They are as safe as can be.

If people get sick or get a condition of some kind, it is coincidental--see?
post #12 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by miriam View Post
Odd how there are no protocols for handling vaccine reactions.
I think they'd probably want to slide it in under the current Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. It gives them the ability to put that cap, $250,000 or whatever it is, on there. I wonder if they could do that though if they used an unlicensed vax.
post #13 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by lauradbg View Post
miriam, there are no vaccine reactions! They are as safe as can be.

If people get sick or get a condition of some kind, it is coincidental--see?
lol...exactly, I mean most kids don't have convulsions till 2 weeks after getting vaxed so definitely coincidence.
post #14 of 57
Hmmm I was wondering why the bother over making mandatory vax'es for something as relatively harmless as swine flu, then it hit me:

"Yeah sure, we'll get a flu shot when pigs fly!"
"Swine flu."
post #15 of 57
Ba doom cha! :
post #16 of 57
Thread Starter 
More news about a widespread vaccination campaign...
Forbes.com- U.S. Considers Massive Swine Flu Vaccination Program

i just dont get it... "an estimated 1 million Americans have been infected with the H1N1 swine flu, which continues to produce mild illness and a fairly quick recovery in patients." Mmmkay soo why is it so important to inject everyone? Just because we can?!

I'm new around here (and to the vax discussion in general) and I know many of you are way beyond being dumbfounded by the crAZY obsession over vaccines, but I'm still completely baffled. :
post #17 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by miriam View Post
Odd how there are no protocols for handling vaccine reactions.
TN's plan does include adverse reaction reporting.
post #18 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss834 View Post
I'm new around here (and to the vax discussion in general) and I know many of you are way beyond being dumbfounded by the crAZY obsession over vaccines, but I'm still completely baffled. :
Follow the money trail and it begins to make a lot more sense. Vaccines are big business, and it could feasibly be argued that the long-term damage that can occur in vaccinated people creates pharmaceutical and allopathic customers for life.

$$$
post #19 of 57
i don't get the quarantine thing.. if everyone else is vaccinated why do those of us who opt to not get it need to be quatantined? if i get it its my own fault.. but its not like people who were vaccinated would be in danger of catching it from me or anything...

oo and i feel like i am really missing something about this whole thing. why is swine flu so dangerous that something like mandated vaccines would be considered?
post #20 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1littlebit View Post
i don't get the quarantine thing.. if everyone else is vaccinated why do those of us who opt to not get it need to be quatantined? if i get it its my own fault.. but its not like people who were vaccinated would be in danger of catching it from me or anything...

oo and i feel like i am really missing something about this whole thing. why is swine flu so dangerous that something like mandated vaccines would be considered?
The argument usually goes that vaccines aren't 100% effective and some people can't be vaccinated. So those of us with robust, healthy immune systems who want to keep them that way are supposed to hide out, unable to work or buy basic supplies like groceries and such, while the sickies rush to and fro getting jabs and powders and pills that will make it all better.

In controlling smallpox they did find that "ring quarantine" (where they'd quarantine the sick patient and then everyone who had immediate contact with the patient) was effective in quashing outbreaks before they started. They'll probably go on the same principle here, or at least, that's what they'll tell people.

Lots of things about this don't make sense. 127 deaths in 1 million cases? I'd like to know if that makes it more or less dangerous than run of the mill influenza. I'd also like to know how those people were treated and what preexisting health conditions they had. Were they elderly? Already hospitalized for something else? Asthmatic? Preemies in the NICU? We need more information.

And the symptoms are pretty mild in most people, right? In many cases, milder than regular influenza? So why are we supposed to rush out and line up to get jabbed with an untested, unproven, experimental vaccine that has been manufactured by the same company that "accidentally" shipped out doses of flu vaccine that had been contaminated with avian flu? Of course, if you apply similar logic to other vaccines you encounter the same problem...

There's no obvious logic behind any of this. None of it makes sense...unless you start flipping your thinking around and asking different questions. But if you do that, you're a "conspiracy theorist". So shut up, stop asking questions, and roll up your sleeve, komrade. Do your part to fight the porcine menace!
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