Banned Books in School

[mommysarah5]

There are books that schools are banned from using in their curriculum and having in their school library. (This post isn't about that)

In non-religious public schools, are there bans on students bringing in religious books to read during their free time (such as as lunch, or during study hall)

For example books on Christianity, Judaism, Wicca, Buddhism, etc.

I was just told that if a high school student brought a book referencing these things to school that they would be immediately expelled with no chance to graduate. I was told that no school in this country - USA - would allow that material in the school, and that it's because of the Columbine incident, and that there is now a no tolerance rule on those books due to fear of what might happen. That this zero tolerance rule is in effect in most states. (at first I was tole no school in the country, then I was told the rule only applies in most states?)

Is this true? I've never heard of anything like that. I'm having a hard time finding information that supports that, so I thought I'd ask some parents who have school aged children if they knew.

[spedteacher30]

I've never heard such a ludicrous statement in my life! The public middle school I taught in (both before and after Columbine) had no such restrictions.

[NYCVeg]

Um...what? Public schools are not allowed to advocate religious belief. They are absolutely allowed to teach religious history (many American history courses will talk about the Puritan preacher, Jonathan Edwards, for example; a course on early European history could not be taught without teaching a great deal about the role of the Catholic Church; a history of the Middle East course...well, you get the idea).

I don't see what a student reading a book in their own time has to do with anything. If the student is leading other students in prayer on school property...that would probably constitute a problem. Reading a book that REFERENCES religion? No problem.

[ValarieR]

During my time in public school, I found that there were rarely book incidents involving the administration, but frequently individual teachers would take books.

For example, a friend of my family wrote a book on conservatism (he was a big ole' Republican, but we loved him anyway and he dedicated it to my dad just before my dad died. So, clearly, I wanted to read it. I was reading it on my own time, after finishing my work, and the teacher came to see what I was reading. He saw the subject matter and deemed it too controversal to read in school. I politely pointed out that none of the other 12yr olds cared about politics, but he took it anyway. my mom had to go get it back for me.

I saw that happen a lot, to other kids as well, but I never knew of the admins caring unless the book had been labeled as pornographic

[shanniesue2]

Even if there were such a rule against books referencing religion, which there isn't, they wouldn't expell someone for reading one during free time. Cionfiscate the book, maybe (I doubt it, though) But the idea of expelling a student for reading a book that references religion...That's ridiculous. i mean schools have a hard enough time sometimes expelling students for serious serious misbehavior... there's no way they'd be able to get away with expulsion for READING. Who told you this sillines?

[queenjane]

Who told you this? Was it a school official?

Most (if not all) schools/school systems have very specific guidelines about behavior, dress code, etc set forth in their handbook, which should be given to the students at the beginning of each school year. There should be guidelines clearly stated what the punishment is for infractions.

"Expulsion w/ no chance of graduation" is almost always reserved for very serious offenses, such at threatening a teacher/bomb threat/possibly bringing a serious weapon to school. And there is always a mtg about it, and a chance for an appeal. Its a legal matter. They cant just say "you brought a bible to study hall, get out!"

That being said, i think whomever told you a student cannot bring in ANY book (except, obviously, those with pics of nekkid people or some such thing) to read on their own time, is IMO totally misinformed. I dont think that could hold up in court. I've never really heard of such a thing. I suppose a school could fear a child saying "i just brought this book in to read on my own time but these other kids were interested..." and worried parents might think it was a religious based group on campus. But i still dont think its an issue.

http://www.adl.org/religion_ps_2004/prayer.asp There are also other subjects related to religion in school on the left side of that page.

If a school allows a student to read during a study hall/lunch/etc, then they cannot tell a student they cant read the Bible, Koran, etc....it appears from reading at the Anti Defamation League site that such a ban would be unconstitutional. I believe there was a recent case that went to the Supreme Court of a girl near where i live who wore a Wiccan symbol and the school tried to ban it under the "no gang symbols" clause. Apparently the case was settled out of court, in favor of the student, but the Supreme Court has upheld similar cases, in favor of the student wearing other religious symbols. I dont see how reading a Bible or other religious book would be any different.

That being said, if the student is of a minority faith in an area that is intolerant to such a faith, it will probably be an uphill battle, and lawyers (or at least the threat of lawyers) might need to be called in.

[marisa724]

Whoever told you this is most likely mistaken.

I was a public school teacher for several years (in a K-8 school however, not high school). I have never heard of such a rule, nor do I think it would be enforceable. I know for a fact that in the older grades, they had plenty of opportunity to read independently when their work was done (and they also had DEAR -- Drop Everything And Read -- several times a week). Certain teachers may have prevented the kids from reading things like magazines or comic books, but I know of no circumstances where a book such as you describe would be challenged.

[VisionaryMom]

I'm totally out of the loop because I actually thought that banning books was an antiquated ritual altogether.

[mommysarah5]

Everything said here is in line with what I thought, but I've been wrong before, and it could have been happening again, so I thought it best to ask. Thanks so much for all the responses to help me clarify.

[Learning_Mum]

I really hope you're right because I can't get my head around a school dictating what can and can't be read on the students free time at school. I just find that mind boggling!

[zinemama]

I'm really curious about who told you this. I taught public school for years, in several states, and never heard anything like that.

It sounds like something you would hear from the kind of Christian who is always insisting that Christians are a persecuted religion in the USA.

[mommysarah5]

Thanks again.

The person who told me was just a misinformed friend who was trying to help. She reads books about these things herself, so I don't think it was meant to say it was bad for kids to read or anything like that, just that she really thought that there were these bans because of Columbine and the Harry Potter Book controversy. I explained that the controversy was more over the books that the schools kept in their libraries and used a required reading, but she said that wasn't the case so I wanted to look into it to confirm for my own knowledge.

[RoseDuperre]

Originally Posted by zinemama

It sounds like something you would hear from the kind of Christian who is always insisting that Christians are a persecuted religion in the USA.

You beat me to it! This is exactly what I was going to say, exactly exactly.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by zinemama

It sounds like something you would hear from the kind of Christian who is always insisting that Christians are a persecuted religion in the USA.

Not to start a debate, but I have notice in the US that while religous freedom is stressed in the US, when it comes to discrimination regulations Christians do get the short end of the stick in that they are rarely supported in their attempt to protect their own right to religion. (i.e. Schools covering Hanukkah but refusing to allow anything remotely Christian.)


To the OP: I highly doubt that is the law. For one thing, that would limit a vast number of books. Too many too count. You'd be hard pressed to find a book that makes absolutely no reference to religion. Not to mention that history itself is steeped in religion.

[staceychev]

Ridiculous. I teach high school. There's no way that we could dictate what kids read on their own time. And yes, lunch and study hall are "on their own time."

[Chamomile Girl]

I am a high school history teacher in California and I can tell you that students can absolutely bring in religious materials to read if they wish. The thought of banning such a thing is mind boggling to me.

[Materfamilias]

Um... no. I was a public school teacher for 9 years and never heard this one!

[ckmannel]

In one of my public high school freshman courses were were assigned Genesis to read.

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

Not to start a debate, but I have notice in the US that while religous freedom is stressed in the US, when it comes to discrimination regulations Christians do get the short end of the stick in that they are rarely supported in their attempt to protect their own right to religion. (i.e. Schools covering Hanukkah but refusing to allow anything remotely Christian.).

i think this probably varies alot depending on where you live. When i was looking up different court cases, it seems the majority of cases where students were not allowed to wear certain articles of clothing or jewelry, it was non-christian kids that were targeted: Muslim, Jewish, and Wiccan/NeoPagan kids. In most places in the US, school officials think nothing of a student wearing a small gold cross, but a star of david, or pentacle/pentagram can often elicit requests for removal w/ the threat of suspension if the student does not comply. The sites i visited also listed situations in which Christian kids were targeted but it seems in many of those circumstances the tshirts were of a highly political or graphic nature (anti abortion msgs for example)

I'd say in many places in this country school is the ONLY place a child might hear about Hannukah, whereas Christian messages are everywhere. Its a little like asking why is it ok to have Black History Month but not "White History Month." I live in a suburb of a major Midwestern city and i know the presumption here is that one is Christian, i can only imagine the pressure on non-Christian students living in places like the South where the assumption is even more ingrained.

[MeepyCat]

Originally Posted by mommysarah5

For example books on Christianity, Judaism, Wicca, Buddhism, etc.

I was just told that if a high school student brought a book referencing these things to school that they would be immediately expelled with no chance to graduate. I was told that no school in this country - USA - would allow that material in the school, and that it's because of the Columbine incident, and that there is now a no tolerance rule on those books due to fear of what might happen. That this zero tolerance rule is in effect in most states. (at first I was tole no school in the country, then I was told the rule only applies in most states?)

Aside from the things that have already been said regarding the non-existence and unconstitutionality of any rule like this, the reference to Columbine makes no sense. The Columbine shooters were not religiously motivated, and while it is true that they asked fellow students questions like "Do you believe in God?" during their rampage, so far as anyone can tell, it wasn't about specifically persecuting religious individuals. They thought it sounded cool, and they were being cruel and sadistic.

Some non-religious high schools offer courses in comparative religion, or religion and culture (this is more common at private schools, which have the budget for more elective courses than public ones, but it's not unheard of at public school). Many literature and history courses cover material related to religion - they can't hardly help it - and many high school-aged children bring religious texts and books about religion to school to read during lunch, recess or study hall.

In my experience, high school teachers see reading anything as a positive thing, and unless the subject matter is deeply problematic, they don't interfere. If a kid gets her hands on The Anarchist's Cookbook, they'll put a stop to the reading of that, but most books, including religious ones, they won't bother about.