How do you explain it to pro-circ people?

[sweetsunshine85]

I have a few friends who strongly believe in circumcision. They say you have to do it, because of the cleanliness/infection issues. And I know thats a myth, but I don't know how to debunk it. I glanced through the forum, but didn't see a thread that would really help. I pretty much need to know the truth and how to explain it to others. HELP!!!

[PuppyFluffer]

Going through the "Web Resources" sticky thread at the top of the forum should give you a lot of information. You have to realize, a lot of the same arguements used to support female genital mutilation are the same ones used for male genital mutilation. If FGM is so wrong......well....follow the same train of thought.

[Talula Fairie]

Not to rain on your parade, but honestly...I generally don't touch this issue with others. Luckily it rarely comes up for me since all my kids are girls, but even if it did I'm not sure I'd want to unless someone was a close friend, or if they were asking my opinion/advice. It's just SO emotionally charged, moreso than other issues I've noticed.

I've also noticed that even with faced with the evidence some people just won't change their minds. This is not to say you shouldn't try, though. I literally overheard the parents who were rooming in with me at the hospital after I had my second child discussing circ with the doctors. They choose to circ their 37-week-gestation baby who was not nursing very well yet and still making funky whimpery noises. The doctors specifically informed them that it was only for cosmetics, they were actually quite factual. But the couple did it anyway.

[sweetsunshine85]

Well, I am going to need to know how to present the information, as I am going to be a midwife as well. For now, I just would like to know how to talk to people about it, who are open to hearing and then down the road, I should know more and be able to be objective.

[bubbamummy]

I just say 'Did you know America is one of the only countries that routinely circ's for non-religious reasons?' Im from England where I honestly didnt know 1 single guy that was circ'd, and ...yep, you guessed it, non of my family or friends had ever had any kind of 'issues' regarding infection or whatever. I just tell people; 'oh im English and we dont do it there'

I feel SO strongly against it though I try and avoid the topic with people here in the US as many are so 'pro circ' and it really makes me upset.

[Talula Fairie]

Originally Posted by sweetsunshine85

Well, I am going to need to know how to present the information, as I am going to be a midwife as well. For now, I just would like to know how to talk to people about it, who are open to hearing and then down the road, I should know more and be able to be objective.

Well that's a totally different situation than just chattin' with the women at your local mom's club.

I had to think for a minute but finally it occurred to me that Dr. William Sears has really good circ information, I would present it the way he does. He's pretty non-threatening. It's covered in his Baby Book and also at his website at the following links:

http://askdrsears.com/html/1/t012000.asp

http://askdrsears.com/html/10/t101500.asp

there is also the ever famous Mothering magazine article on it:
http://www.mothering.com/case-against-circumcision

Hope that helps

[sweetsunshine85]

I'm not afraid of ruffling feathers. I kinda like to debate. And the people are usually good friends who can deal with my enthusiasm.

[sweetsunshine85]

Thanks, Talula Fairie! I forgot about Dr Sears! And I know I have that mothering article around here somewhere...

[Talula Fairie]

Originally Posted by sweetsunshine85

I'm not afraid of ruffling feathers. I kinda like to debate. And the people are usually good friends who can deal with my enthusiasm.

Heh. I like to debate sometimes too but I just have gotten myself into trouble many times with my big mouth. A lot of people at my church circ...so it's a topic I learned to just stay away from overall. I've also seen circ debates get really ugly online.

I definitely let my good friends know my opinions though

[sweetsunshine85]

Most of the people at my church don't circ. But there are a couple families... One that I know of has 6 boys, all circ'd. Neither I nor anyone else has the heart to tell the mama what she has done to those poor kids!

[Talula Fairie]

ooh! I found a better link online in case you can't find the full article:

http://mothering.com/cutting-kids

[sweetsunshine85]

Thanks!

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by sweetsunshine85

Well, I am going to need to know how to present the information, as I am going to be a midwife as well. For now, I just would like to know how to talk to people about it, who are open to hearing and then down the road, I should know more and be able to be objective.

That's great, then this link is for you:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1084261

[sweetsunshine85]

Wonderful! Thank you!

[lawmama1984]

Originally Posted by sweetsunshine85

Well, I am going to need to know how to present the information, as I am going to be a midwife as well. For now, I just would like to know how to talk to people about it, who are open to hearing and then down the road, I should know more and be able to be objective.

Hey, so glad to hear this! I will tell you how my doula approached this with me. I was a pro-circ'ing mama until she brought it up. I think she had a really great approach (obviously it worked, thank goodness for my son!). She asked me when I was further along in pregnancy once we knew we were having a boy. All she said was "Are you going to circumcise him?" I said "Yes" very authoritatively and with conviction. This was because I hadn't had the benefit of all these wonderful resources (I had only been on a mainstream message board prior to this). After I said I would, she got quiet for a second and then said "Why?" It was in a totally non-judgmental way, just like she was asking why I chose to do anything I would do. I literally could not think of any good reason and started stuttering. I had mentioned not circ'ing to my DH right after we found out he was a boy, just because it sat wrong with me, but my dad (who is a doctor) and my friends (who are very mainstream) convinced me to do it.

After this, we literally struggled with the decision for about a month after he was born (thank goodness he could not be circ'd in the hospital when I was consenting while high on meds). My doulas were open to any questions I had, sent me DVDs about what exactly circ'ing entailed (at my request), what it removed, etc. and my fears were allayed. They were also very open about telling me how their older intact boys felt about it, the "cleaning" process (before I knew what to do), etc.

To this day, I thank my doula every time I email her. There are no words to express the gratitude I feel for having someone in my life like her who took the time to not only speak to me, but to follow up with resources and information. I know now that I would have felt beyond guilty if I had chosen to circ my son, and I know it was because I was blessed with women in my life like my doulas (I actually had 2 who told me the same thing) who were able to educate me.

All that to say...that was my doula's approach and it worked for me. I listen to my dad on a lot of things, but this is one I am so glad I chose to reject. Her approach really worked for me and I hope it can help you.

Keep up the fight!

[tutucrazy]

Originally Posted by sweetsunshine85

I have a few friends who strongly believe in circumcision. They say you have to do it, because of the cleanliness/infection issues. And I know thats a myth, but I don't know how to debunk it. I glanced through the forum, but didn't see a thread that would really help. I pretty much need to know the truth and how to explain it to others. HELP!!!

PM me your email address and I can send you a document that can help you.

[sweetsunshine85]

Thanks, will do.

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by Talula Fairie

Not to rain on your parade, but honestly...I generally don't touch this issue with others.

I'm very sad to hear that. Knowledge is responsibility. You have the knowledge.

I will never forgive a couple that I’ve met while being pregnant with our son. They did not vaccinate their daughters and (as I learned later) did know the dirty truth about vaccines, yet they never passed this knowledge to me when I asked for guidance. As a result, I starter researching it after my son got 9 shots total and I always will deeply regret partially vaccinating him.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. -Martin Luther King Jr.

[Quirky]

Originally Posted by sweetsunshine85

I have a few friends who strongly believe in circumcision. They say you have to do it, because of the cleanliness/infection issues. And I know thats a myth, but I don't know how to debunk it. I glanced through the forum, but didn't see a thread that would really help. I pretty much need to know the truth and how to explain it to others. HELP!!!

I think it's easy. All you have to do is say that no major medical organization in the world recommends circumcising infants to prevent disease or promote hygiene. And, in fact, many prestigious medical organizations take a strong stand against infant circumcision (in Australia/NZ and many European countries for ex.).

Even the AAP, which is fairly wishy-washy, says the "potential" (i.e. unproven) benefits do not outweigh the known risks.

[nd_deadhead]

The simple way out is to say "I hope there is nothing wrong with my son when he is born, and he doesn't need an operation!"

Repeat as often as necessary: my son's penis is fine, there's nothing wrong with it, he doesn't need an operation.

We don't expect that he will have any more trouble cleaning his penis than brushing his teeth or washing his hair.

If he does have problems in the future (which is very unlikely), we will treat them, just as we would with any other body part. Of course we will treat any problem with conservative, non-invasive means, and save amputation as an absolute last resort."